scenario

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 09:59 PM) Let's look at what's left of this team We have a incredibly fatigued pitching staff We have two youngsters who have absolutely no experience pitching in pressure situations We have a veteran with "Great Stuff" that can't pitch on 3 days rest, nor can he pitch in big-games, and has been questioned by more than two (at least) members of the team We have a veteran with big-game experience and success, but is pitching on short rest We have an incredibly inconsistent offense. Sounds alot like the 2006 Cardinals to me.

150+ days in 1st place. What a welcome change from last year... no matter how tomorrow turns out.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 02:30 PM) Again a reliever and probably not a long reliever either because I see him getting smashed a second time around when facing hitters. He has a fastball. I didn't say he isn't trying to work on other pitches, but he is far from being able to get big league hitters out with them. What are you basing this on? He threw a very effective slider all year.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 02:16 PM) Aaron has one pitch right now. No way in hell is he ready to be a starter. Maybe, just maybe a reliever, but he's far from being a starter. I do agree, the Sox need a frontline starter like a Sabathia, but the thing is, he's going to want to go for more than 3 years and the Sox typically won't do that. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry1757682 (From the FutureSox Forum; thread on the Carolina League Top 20 Prospects) Aaron Poreda, lhp, Winston-Salem (White Sox) B-T: L-L Ht.: 6-6 Wt.: 240 Age: 21 Drafted: White Sox '07 (1) Poreda stuck around Winston-Salem for just 12 starts but made a lasting impression. He pitched off a 94-96 mph fastball that induces groundballs because of its movement. "His stuff is nasty and will only get better," one talent evaluator said. Poreda also began to show a feel for his changeup and defined his breaking pitch. Poreda threw a curveball in college before adding a slider after turning pro, and he found himself caught in between the two pitches at the outset of the season. The White Sox have pushed him to focus on his hard slider, which dives at righthanded hitters' feet. Pitching from a three-quarter arm slot makes it a challenge for Poreda to stay on top of his slider, and he also struggles to repeat his delivery at times. That could lead to a future as a reliever, and once scout said Poreda is ready to pitch out of a big league bullpen now. Edit: Aaron made 15 starts for Birmingham after getting promoted to AA at midseason and his stats were very similar to those he put up at W-S.

Cole is strong defensively. I read a stat earlier this year that he was leading the Southern League in caught stealing. Not sure where he stood in the IL after his promotion. And his offensive splits show that he can hit righties but he really struggles against lefties. So, he's not the ideal platoon partner for AJ... from an offensive perspective anyway.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 11:27 PM) I follow the team in enough ways to have a legitimate opinion. I'm not saying I'm right. I have an educated opinion though. Your 'educated opinion' is that the team doesn't care about winning? Man, I picked a bad week to stop sniffing glue.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 10:12 PM) Dotel showing that he should have been in earlier in this game. His name must have been at the bottom of the hat.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 08:58 PM) their pen has been much better as of late...jensen lewis has been solid as their closer...but still not shut down by any means Yeah... but they still have the 2nd worst bullpen ERA in MLB.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) Thome should just take every pitch Perez throws, as he has no chance to touch his slider. You called that.

The only saving grace to this game is that the Tribe's bullpen is probably worse than ours... And if any bullpen in the league might let us back into the game, it would be theirs (or the Tigers).

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 01:39 PM) Bernstein finally says something I agree with The White Sox are a stupid team with stupid players Not every player on the team is stupid, but a mass majority of them are certainly lacking in baseball IQ Who? Call them out. Pretend you're Ozzie for a moment and throw their ***es under the bus.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 02:33 PM) It's not like the Twins haven't had their fair share of injuries either. They've been without their main set-up man for the whole season (Neshek), and they lost their 3rd best offensive player in Cuddyer for a majority of the year. I firmly believe that Span is their MVP. I think the Twins pitching coach is their MVP. Anybody who can take 5 starting pitchers... none of whom have even a full year in MLB under their belts... and have them compete for a division title is practically a miracle worker in my book.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 02:17 PM) How many innings did Poreda throw this season FWIW? Maybe they are just looking after his long - term health. He pitched 161 this year. 145 in 2007 between college and Great Falls.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 02:02 PM) So I guess the question remains, if what we did in 2005 worked for us so well, why has both Ozzie and the team in general moved away from that approach? I think the Sox believed that they might be able to duplicate it this season if Owens played the Podsednik role and leadoff, with OC batting second. I think that WAS the plan. Owen's injury along with Quentin's emergence changed the dynamics of the lineup. Then they had to justify the Swisher acquisition by moving him to center... then jury-rig the top of the lineup to adjust for these changes... and there we are. I dare say if KW thought that Quentin would really turn out as well as he did that we may not have made the Swisher trade.... which I think was sort of a desperation "we did something" move after we couldn't sign Hunter.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 12:41 PM) Ozzie ball is a freaking myth. Well... kind of.... That year we were near the top of MLB in stolen bases, sacrifices, and bunt base hits. And we hit for power. So, it was difficult to categorize the team as small ball or power-ball... and so a different label was given. That's why the myth won't seem to die. Because that team did not fit into a single box.

The Twins were a better team this week.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 10:55 AM) The more time passes this month, the more frustrated I get that we never gave Poreda a chance to be a valuable member of our bullpen. I don't care if his slider sucks...a mid 90s sinker can be very effective one time through the order. Look at the Twins...they just put Mijares right into the mix, and he's been golden for them. I tend to agree with you on this. The only thing I can figure is that they didn't want to screw up a 21-year old with his potential by throwing him into the pressure cooker of a major league pennant race. And keep in mind that Clayton Richard outpitched him in the minors this year.

Interesting. I think you're right. He's 6-12 months older than most of the other guys on the list... even though he's below the league average age. That's OK. Advantage us IMO. If Shelby is one of the league's best players and didn't make the list... hey I can live that. Makes our situation look that much better. He's been on a normal progression (not held back or repeated any levels). The exciting part IMO is if you consider that these players should all come up about the same time... in 2-3 years. (In Poreda's case probably earlier). So, next year at AA... 2010 in AAA. 2011 with the WhiteSox. Danks and Beckham should be coming up in similar time-frame. That's a nice pool of talent on the not so distant horizon.

False Alarm said: "he ain't included. the official list: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...008/266931.html i'd imagine the omission had to do with his crappy plate discipline. nearly a 1:5 bb/k and pretty bad OBP. if he was a bit younger maybe they'd overlook it. he ain't old for the league (age-22 season), but he ain't extremely young either."

QUOTE (False Alarm @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 09:32 AM) * this is secondhand, but the rankings i saw were poreda (6), allen (14), ely (17), and texeira (19). Hmmm.... I have a hard time imagining Shelby wouldn't be included in the Carolina League list. I've seen several comments from Carolina League managers where he was called the most exciting offensive player in the league... a very fast player with power. Picture a 5'10 guy 180lb. guy who led the league in slugging percentage over some other MLB teams best prospects... and stole 33 bases. A few more stats showing where Shelby ranked in the Carolina League: 1st in slugging percentage (.510) 2nd in doubles (37) 3rd in total bases (228) 3rd in stolen bases (33) 4th in triples (7) 5th in OPS (.841) 5th in runs scored (81) 6th in league batting average (.295) 6th in RBIs (80)

A couple of posts below copied from another thread since they actually belong in this one.

Interesting. I think you're right. He's 6-12 months older than most of the other guys on the list... even though he's below the league average age. That's OK. Advantage us IMO. If Shelby is one of the league's best players and didn't make the list... hey I can live that. Makes our situation look that much better. He's been on a normal progression (not held back or repeated any levels). The exciting part IMO is if you consider that these players should all come up about the same time... in 2-3 years. (In Poreda's case probably earlier). So, next year at AA... 2010 in AAA. 2011 with the WhiteSox. Danks and Beckham should be coming up in similar time-frame. That's a nice pool of talent on the not so distant horizon.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 09:53 AM) A team that everyone had pegged for .500 or worse, third or fourth in the division, is hit with a bunch of key injuries late in the season, and falls into a tie for first with 4 games to go. The only explanation must be they are choking. OK sure. Thank you. If the Twins had lost Justin Mourneau for the last month and lost more games as a result, would people be talking about the Twins "choking"? No. Of course not. And in most offensive categories this year Quentin > Mourneau. That's not an excuse. It's a fact. Sure the other guys need to pick it up. Let's hope it happens at home.

QUOTE (False Alarm @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 09:32 AM) this is secondhand, but the rankings i saw were poreda (6), allen (14), ely (17), and texeira (19). Hmmm.... I have a hard time imagining Shelby wouldn't be included in the Carolina League list. I've seen several comments from Carolina League managers where he was called the most exciting offensive player in the league... a very fast player with power. Picture a 5'10 guy 180lb. guy who led the league in slugging percentage over some other MLB teams best prospects... and stole 33 bases. A few more stats showing where Shelby ranked in the Carolina League: 1st in slugging percentage (.510) 2nd in doubles (37) 3rd in total bases (228) 3rd in stolen bases (33) 4th in triples (7) 5th in OPS (.841) 5th in runs scored (81) 6th in league batting average (.295) 6th in RBIs (80)

I've spent some time researching this a couple of years ago because I was trying to figure out where all the AJ hate seemed to be coming from. I posted questions about it on a couple of Twins boards and talked to several people I know who live in Minneapolis. (I spend about 2 months a year in Minneapolis on business working with a big financial services firm downtown... right near the dome.) It seems like the issue with SF actually started when AJ was with Minnesota... and the Twins were playing the A's in the 2002 playoffs. The series had been contentious... knockdowns... a couple of near fights, etc.... Then in the deciding game (which the Twins won) AJ hit a homerun and when he crossed home he stopped looked the A's catcher right in the eyes and yelled BOO-YAH... and almost incited a riot. (Minnesota fans enjoyed this btw.) But it pretty much branded him as public enemy #1 in the bay area. Then, he got traded out there and it seems that people in the bay area were slow to warm up to him. And he by no means was blameless. He had significant run-ins with a couple of Giant's pitchers, particularly Brett Tomko, and called out the staff publicly for their lack of focus and heart. Also, the Giants management side of the story is that they gave AJ a couple of chances to repair the damage to his image in the community and he was not really cooperative... and things got worse... and worse with both the team and the fans. So... it was a bad marriage that ended in an ugly divorce and the 'AJ as a cancer' story had begun.