scenario

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 05:54 PM) There's a reason our farm system is rated in the bottom 10 in major league baseball. It blows. We made some bad picks (who hasn't) and we traded away alot of people. That's why the well is dry at upper levels. But people talk about all of picks sucking... and that suggesting our scouts and development people were all horrible.... it's simply NOT true. Look up Oakland's farm system ratings. Not bad. And who are 3 of their top 10 prospects? Gio Gonzalez, Aaron Cunningham, and Chris Carter. There are people now saying that Carter is THE best player in their system. All guys we drafted. Add Ryan Sweeney to that mix... and DLS. Would our farm system ALOT look better if we kept all those guys rather than trade them? Sure. But we didn't. Bottom line... the trades thinned out the talent making our system (in some people's eyes) look much worse than it is. We had a good draft in 2007. Then we brought in Buddy and a bunch of new scouts. We had a very good draft in 2008. One more good draft next year and the system is pretty close to being "normal" again. I feel pretty confident in the direction things are going.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 10:43 AM) Sox put nobody in the Top 20 in Baseball America's list of the top prospects in the South Atlantic League. Nobody from Kannapolis. Another sign of our sub-par scouting and player development. It's one of the biggest problems plaguing the organization. No it isn't. We had a group of players in rookie ball last year that completely skipped Kannapolis this year and went to Winston-Salem instead... and helped lead W-S to the playoffs. (the second year in a row that this core group of players went to the playoffs in their respective leagues). Is that a sign of sub-par scouting? Also, Anthony Carter probably would have made this list if he hadn't been promoted at mid-season. He was tearing up the Sally. Charlie Shirek probably would be on here too if he hadn't spent some time on the DL this year. I think we had several other talented players at Kanny this year who just didn't play there long enough to qualify for this list. So don't read too much into it. I am impressed with the Braves ability to keep loading the pipeline though. The reason they had so many talented players in low-A all year is because they were loaded in high-A and AA too. Their Carolina League team lost in the finals this year, but they were the best team in the league. Their AA team won the title in the Southern League. Can't help but be impressed by that type of depth and success.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Sep 24, 2008 -> 11:34 PM) They boo him for the same reason he was traded (discluding the fact he was traded for tons of goodies). He was a clubhouse cancer for the Twinkies. Didn't get along with his team at all. That's why people started booing him to begin with, because he was known as a "bad guy" of baseball. Then after some of the '05 controversy everyone wanted to jump on the AJ hatred train. MN, is the only place that rightfully should boo him. Where did you get that from? I have several friends in Minneapolis who are season ticket holders and say that's not true... that he was never a problem in Minny and in fact was a fan favorite. The only reasons the Twins traded him was because he was no longer cheap ($365k in 2003; $3.5M in 2004); and Joe Mauer was getting ready to replace him. The only place where AJ has ever been that he was perceived as a bad guy was with the Giants... not Minneapolis.

Stupid Minnesota sheep. They do it because they see other people doing it. They should be kissing AJ's ***. He helped them net Liriano and Nathan.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 24, 2008 -> 11:30 AM) I'll let someone else handle this argument (as there's been so many made in this thread), as I'm so tired of focusing on Javy when the offense deserves more of the blame for recent struggles. What is so hard about the question fathom? Which were the big games? The link shows all of his starts. So... what were they? Or are you just venting?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 24, 2008 -> 11:15 AM) He had one start and 2 relief appearances for the Yankees in the 2004 playoffs, and was crushed in all 3 games (including giving up a grand slam to Johnny Damon, the signature moment of the Red Sox comeback). He had a pre all star game ERA of 3.56 that year and a post all star game ERA of 6.92. He also went 0-6 in his last 10 starts for the White Sox in 2006, and we were in that race obviously. Combine that with his two most recent starts this season, and you get the "choker" label. I'm glad you brought up 2006... and him going 0-6 in his last 10 starts. Go back (link) and look at those games. He pitched GREAT. The offense should have had all of their pictures on milk cartons. THAT is why he went 0-6.... not because he pitched poorly. (10 of his last 12 starts he pitched extremely well... not average... not just good.) So if the end of 2006 is part of your choker argument, you need some new evidence.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 24, 2008 -> 11:09 AM) Does it matter now? After Ozzie's comments and Javy's bed-crapping performance, this label will stick with him for the rest of his career. Of course it matters. Are you trying to say that facts don't matter... it's only opinions that matter? If someone says he's a big game choker then they should be able to point out the big games... unless they're just venting which I can understand because last night was ugly. So... what are the BIG games? For example: on August 17th, when we were tied with the Twins and playing the A's on the west coast... and Javy went 8 innings, and gave up only 4 hits to help the Sox take the series and stay in first place. Was that a "big game"? Or when we had just lost two games in Cleveland the beginning of this month... and we were in danger of being swept... and Javy went 6 innings, gave up 2 runs on 5 hits, struck out 5 and walked 1. We started that day with 1/2 game lead over the Twins. Was that a "big game" or not?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 24, 2008 -> 10:58 AM) You are almost for sure right, but as a guy who sees all of Javy's starts, I wouldn't trade s*** for him. Then again, people are desperate for pitching. If you and fathom are right (and you probably are) about Javy's value, we almost have to trade him this offseason IMO. Other than eat innings, he hasn't done much for us other than be mediocre and choke in big games. Please help me understand something about the "big game" theory. This is the link to his 2008 season game log with all of his pitching performances. Which ones other than last night are the "big" games?

Here's the Inside Edge report on his game.

QUOTE (Sox It To Em @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 12:39 PM) There will be tears and bloodshed. Lots. In the streets of Minneapolis... hopefully.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 12:37 PM) i'd love to see him step it up. i don't know - just not holding out much hope for this series, i guess. not a good sign when you've got guys like OC saying this team doesn't act like it's in first, guys like AJ saying some guys play scared in the dome, Ozzie having to throw down the smack to motivate one of his most talented pitchers, and Konerko saying it's no big deal if they have a bad series, as if he's preparing himself for it already. Not feeling the mojo, i guess you'd say. Good points. I think there will be alot more mojo to pass around if we win tonight. But it's hard to feel confident giving our history in that house of horrors. If the Twins put together another of their patented gork-shot and infield hit rallies late in the game, I may end up needing a new TV this week.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 01:08 PM) and below .200 in September Yeah, but he has over a .300 career average at the Metrodome. If anybody is immune to the virus the team seems to catch up there it should be him.

Ozzie on playing in the Dome... Just in case the players do flinch at the sight of the dome, Guillen offered a small warning -- as only Guillen can. ''If they worry about how we get there and how we're going to play there, then we should go straight to Cleveland and don't play there,'' Guillen said. ''We have to play good there. That's my job. If I have to be on their ***, I will be on their ***. I'm not scared. We've been through it. We win the world championship with a lot of guys out there, and they shouldn't be scared. ''We got to beat the [bleep] out of them and have the last laugh.''

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 11:57 PM) OC, Wise and Uribe step up, AJ takes a crap. AJ is hitting over .400 against the Twins this year.

QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 12:59 PM) If you scatterplot Vazquez's ERA against the winning percentages of the teams he has been on since 2000, you will see that Javy is more comfortable on losing teams, period. LOL. There is also a correlation between feet size and pizza consumption. But that doesn't mean that if someone eats alot of pizza that they have big feet. Javy's had a bad month the year he was traded to New York. And he had a bad season the year he was traded to the Sox. Besides that he played for crap teams. So... you want to connect the random dots to suggest that he doesn't have the cajones to pitch for good teams, only bad ones?? Nnnnnno. Don't think so. I find it amazing how people twist facts to prove points they want to make.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 02:55 PM) I really liked Vazquez when they got him. I now consider him the wilting flower. I am not sure what the stats are exactly but last season and earlier this season he was good and now he seems to be hit or miss based on who he is pitching against. He's tied with Gavin Floyd for best ERA on the staff since the ASB... 3.78 He gave up a total of only 19 earned runs in his 9 starts since August 1st (before last week's game). A 2.83 ERA. And he went 6 or more innings in 8 of those 9 games. 58 strikeouts and 16 walks. So... in the second half of the year, it's difficult to dispute he's been our best starter. The biggest problem he's had is run support.

I think Ozzie knows exactly what he's doing here. He intentionally changed the rotation to set up Javy pitching in this first game. And now he's laying down his expectations - loud and clear. "I just want him to be aggressive, throw the ball over the plate and knock somebody on their [butt]... 'You have to be mean. Go out there and show them we show up to play, show up to kick your guys' [butts]. And believe me, that will take care of itself.'' In other words, quit nibbling around the plate with offspeed stuff. Don't screw around and get behind people (like he did in New York). Throws strikes... and throw inside. When Javy pounds the fastball inside and goes after people rather than trying to finesse his way through a lineup - he can be dominating. When he tries to get cute with his repertoire of pitches and starts getting behind... that's when he gets in trouble.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 02:33 PM) BTW, thats really weird you dropped the Corleone reference. I watched 1 last night for the first time in like 2 years. There's a line in the Godfather for everything.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 02:03 PM) It really isn't. When Owens gets called up on September 1st, and he gets starts over Anderson, the guy that has been on the club all season, there is something to that. When Ozzie made his comments about McCarthy and Anderson, it was very telling. I vote myth. I have employees I didn't like a year ago who I like much better now because they're doing their jobs. As Michael Corleone said, "It's not personal. It's business."

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 11:42 AM) How is Anderson helping the Sox now, or in the future? Do you really see him starting under Ozzie? I think the whole Ozzie thing is a myth that fans for some reason just love to buy into. If Brian showed that he can hit major league pitching, he'd be playing. But he hasn't so he's not. If Brian had a .350 OBP rather than a .275, he'd be Ozzie's best friend.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 11:38 AM) I hope he is traded. How does this help us?

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 11:55 AM) he'll be in CF again next year, starting. Just what we need. Another sub-.300 OBP in the lineup.

I don't think there is any question Brian is back next year. (1) What value does he have in trade? He is a virtual legend in some Sox fans minds, but he's worth a bag of balls in a deal at this point. (2) He could turn out to be something... and he's under our control contract-wise... what's the pressure to trade him? None.

My list... 10 Position Players 1. Beckham 2. B Allen 3. J Shelby 4. J Danks 5. J Martinez 6. Morel 7. K Gerst 8. Getz 9. S Miranda 10. E Escobar (Retherford makes the list with a good year at Birmingham next year.) 10 Pitchers: 1. A Poreda 2. S Upchurch 3. D Carter 4. C Shirek 5. J Rasner 6. J Ely 7. K Texeira 8. B Omogrosso 9. Leroy Hunt 10. Daniel Hudson (Nevin Griffith probably belongs on the list, but I'd like to see him pitch a full season first.) Interesting note... I had to cut several pitchers who I like. The position player list wasn't nearly as difficult.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 12:25 PM) Tyler Allen didn't make it. Why? Because of his age or because of his glove?? I'm assuming you mean Tyler Kuhn. Age may have worked against him. There were alot of good infielders in the Pioneer League this year... many a year or more younger than Kuhn.