Dick Allen

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 22, 2015 -> 02:48 PM) 2010 Cubs attendance: 3,062,973 2010 Sox attendance: 2,194,378 Difference: 868,595 Difference divided by Sox attendance = 39.5% Not sure where your 25% came from? The other thing to keep in mind is if the Sox played as many weekday day games as the Cubs played back then, their attendance would even be lower.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 22, 2015 -> 02:41 PM) Then how do you explain the White Soc and Cubs having the exact same number of local Chicago m.s.a./local fans attending games in the 2010 season....with the only difference the 25% uptick for tourism/regional/historic site traffic that no other team other than maybe the Red Sox can count on? There is a finite number of tickets available. If you really think if no one from any other state were allowed to attend a Cubs or Sox game that their attendance figures would be close, let's just say Roger Daltry wouldn't appreciate your presence at one of his concerts.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 22, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) No, my point is that a fanbase which fills a park constantly every single game can still be pretty down on its team. Especially when they're rotten, and it's been a while since Boston has endured multiple losing years in a row like we have. Maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't people like us overreacting to this team being rotten. Maybe the problem is them being rotten. But why do they show up in Boston, but not the south side of Chicago? If you think the team is so rotten, why do you and anyone else who constantly rips anything they see, continue to spend so many hours with it? I would think there would be something more productive in your life than spending so much time with something that does nothing but bother you. Unless it makes you feel superior thinking you have all of the answers after the White Sox fail. I do notice there are several posters here that during games the Sox are winning are usually too busy to be posting, but the minute something goes wrong....they can throw up multiple posts and stay on for hours. Maybe some people just like being miserable.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 22, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) For comparison I had to go over to a Red Sox message board just to see what they were up to. At this one, the top 2 threads are "Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y? Is the actual lineup the worst in the last 10Y?" I also went through to some of these and yup, sounds familiar. The page I hit randomly had them ripping on Middlebrooks early in a game for striking out. There's also plenty of "tear it down" talk, etc. So your point is it is OK to whine and moan about anything and everything because Boston fans do. Good for you, but it would be nice if there was some common sense used at least once in a while.

Plus, if the Bulls don't want Thibs, they can't bluff for very long.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 22, 2015 -> 02:13 PM) If you had a single team who absolutely knew they wanted Thibs over anybody else, all you have to do to get leverage is just get them to believe you will trade him elsewhere The problem is, you could only "trade" Thibs to somewhere he wants to go. There is tampering going on here as well. You aren't going to be able to fool anyone.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 22, 2015 -> 01:02 PM) You're right, for example, not many teams have moles like you that are on the payroll and blow the sunshine on the fan message boards. I'm only half kidding. Is there anything about how the Sox go about their business you'd change? There's a lot of things I would change. There are players I would rather not be on the roster, but I'm a White Sox fan and want them to do well, so they are on the team, I'm not going to go on a message board and moan about every little thing. As I stated, game threads here are comical. The White Sox can never trail or the world is coming to an end. They can never make an error. The pitcher can never give up a run. There was a 1-1 game after 4 where there was b****ing about the Sox offense AND b****ing about the pitching. Just the Sox usual line up: Eaton, there's a thread he's so bad he shouldn't lead off, Melky, there are posts he's a waste of money, Abreu, I've read a couple of posts he's basically just a tick above average, LaRoche, they need to get rid of him, he a huge problem, Avi, all he can do is crash, and crash hard. Gillaspie, he supposedly is not a major league starter, Flowers, he is brutal, and Micah/Sanchez although not a ton of complaining about Sanchez, Micah got some. So with a line up that bad, when they lose, you then have to blame the manager, oh and while your at it, fire Brooks because the crowds suck, although you say it's because the team doesn't win enough and he makes zero decisions about that. And I'm the irrational one. As I stated, I will have tickets to 40 games, with 3 parties and a bunch of other bonuses for less than it would cost me to see the Schaumburg Boomers. They have put in great effort. It's too bad people don't notice.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 22, 2015 -> 12:46 PM) If the fanbase is small, how about trying to grow it bigger? Winning helps, but there is much more marketing that can be done.The Sox marketing is awful, I'll say it again. When is the last time the Sox made national headlines for any sort of marketing ploy, failed or otherwise? We don't need a "disco demolition night" but how about a social media account that actually stirs the drink a little? How about they market more to the hispanic audience in Chicago? They have quite a few Spanish speaking players. In fact, they should have an entire division of the marketing department dedicated to spanish language promos. The Sox are a stale brand with stale ownership imo. JR has been slowly losing influence in MLB and his club hasn't been consistently entertaining for almost 30 years. I am lucky to have grown up in the "good guys wear black" years with Robin, Frank, Blackjack, Alvarez and the rest of the crew. Those teams didn't win a ton, but they were competitive and exciting and young. Kids younger than 15 don't know s*** about the Sox except that they are usually filled with declining vets and don't win much more than 85 games. Team needs a reboot from the top down. No team tries harder to sell tickets than the White Sox.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ May 22, 2015 -> 12:30 PM) Comparing our attendance to that of Detroit does nothing to add to what we are talking about here about our attendance problems. And apparently you are not reading anything that doesn't fit your own pre-set agenda, either, which is to blame attendance on fans making excuses, because you were asked to back that claim up with evidence and you didn't. Whatever. In the meantime, we agree to disagree. The club has a very bad attendance problem. I optimistically suggest that would be fixed over time with more sustained winning. That's what I believe to be true. You don't agree, which is fine, and I don't care if you do or not. You're entitled to your opinion. But if what you say is, in fact, true, that sustained winning won't solve the problem, and you are convinced the "small bandwagon" fan base just won't show up for one excuse or another, then Mr. Reinsdorf ought to think about selling the current ballpark that seats 40,000 and building one that only seats 20,000, because to your way of thinking, that's all he'll ever need. What you propose it takes for people to show up is the precise definition of bandwagon fans. Since JR owned the team, 8 teams have more titles: Dodgers, Cardinals, Marlins, Giants, Twins, Blue Jays, Yankees, Red Sox. 11 have fewer: Rays, Indians, Astros, Mariners, Rangers, Nationals/Expos/Cubs, Pirates, Brewers, Padres, Rockies. I think his ownership is far from the disaster some want to make it.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 22, 2015 -> 12:33 PM) He was nasty at times and the few times he got behind in counts the Sox got antsy and bailed him out. Cleveland has some nasty starters. The Sox needed to win the other games in the series when they had the pitching advantage on paper. Danks verse Salazar isn't fair. Danks wasn't bad after the 1st inning. I don't know what the deal is with White Sox starters in the first. It seems they tend to give up runs pretty often. Might be time for some sort of change of routine.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ May 22, 2015 -> 12:13 PM) You seem to be a reigning authority on these "reasons" or "excuses" you think explain why Sox fans don't show up in droves to the ballpark. You also take the liberty in painting in broad strokes to suggest that the majority of the fan base employs these excuses. How then, pray tell, do you know this to be true. How do you reach your conclusion that the reason for low attendance is a result of an excuse-making fan base? What body of evidence can you point to back up your claim? I say the reason for low attendance is the cumulative effect of a franchise that simply hasn't won enough to generate and sustain enough interest to encourage people to buy more tickets. I can point to 30 of 35 years of non-winning by this current ownership group to support my theory. What about you? Where is your definitive evidence that our fan base is a bunch of excuse makers? Hours and hours of listening to sports radio? Where is it! Explain why fans did not come out in 2012 if winning solves everything and they were in first place almost all summer long? I love this 30-35 years of not winning anything crap. Apparently you forgot the White Sox won the WS in 2005. The first and last WS title by an AL Central team since 1991.

QUOTE (shysocks @ May 22, 2015 -> 11:54 AM) The people here aren't the problem, all of us either live out of town or likely go to games far more frequently than the average fan. Casual fans are who don't attend Sox games, and there is a variety of reasons they've decided not to that are up to them, but the most important one is the team's performance. If the Sox won more, those people would show up more, and I don't really know how that can be disputed. People want to see and associate with a winner, as I illustrated by citing Blackhawks attendance in the other thread but people seemed to either not understand or retort in a smartass manner "SO THE SOX NEED TO BE A DYNASTY FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO GAMES, GOT IT." The people here are the problem though. Read a gamethread, they are beyond ridiculous, and the people here are making excuses for others not showing up. Again, no one has an obligation to attend games, but if your in first place all summer long and can't draw, and going back to 2005, when the White Sox were never not in first place, draw about 50,000 total during a 3 game series in September, a little over a month before you win a WS, there is a problem. On other boards they blame crap like size of video screens, parking lot attendants not smiling, and say Brooks Boyer is bad at his job. I think he's great at his job. He listens, comes up with the ideas the fans supposedly want. Green seats, cheaper tickets, lower deck access, etc. IMO no team tries harder than the White Sox to sell tickets. I will ultimately have tickets to about 40 games this year with a ton of perks, at a price the Schaumburg Boomers couldn't match.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 22, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) I was never criticizing Adam LaRoche. I was blaming Robin and/or Rick for starting the guy against LHP and/or not having better RH options available when you know how much he struggles against LHP. Somehow you spun that into blaming the entire putrid offense on Adam LaRoche but whatever. Read the rest of the thread. It was pile on Adam LaRoche hour.

The obvious question would be if the team had to go on these multi year playoff runs to bring in fans, how the hell did anyone here ever become a White Sox fan?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 22, 2015 -> 08:50 AM) It was a general comment/discussion about the LaRoche signing. Nobody ever said it had anything to do with the past 3 games against RHP. Adam LaRoche is not a significant offensive "problem". I realize some have honed in on him, so now he will become a punching bag, and those who wanted to jack Rick Hahn off for his offseason are now saying they knew all along some of these signings were just bad, but a thread on the Sox putrid offense focusing on Adam LaRoche, is pretty lame.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ May 22, 2015 -> 08:27 AM) You keep dismissing this like it's some unobtainable feat. Yet every other team in the division has done it at least once. The Royals last good run was in the late 70's to the early 80's but it did happen. The Indians in the 90's, the Twins in the 2000's and the Tigers just recently. I don't think anyone expects them to be the Yankees, Braves or Cardinals who seemed to be there every single year. Just get there two years in a row or even 2 out of 4 years. These once in a decade appearances just aren't working. 2 out of 4 years? Check. 2005 and 2008. Attendance went down in 2008 from 2007. They were in first place most of 2012, yet attendance was down from 2011 which was down from 2010. I don't agree with ss2k5 all that often, but he couldn't be more right. No one is obligated to go to games, but quit complaining about not making the playoffs 3 or 4 years in a row when you don't show up and support successful teams.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 22, 2015 -> 08:14 AM) Because he shouldn't be starting against LH pitching. Nobody ever blamed that for this 3 game losing streak though. The offense was putrid against RHP, so I don't understand how this morphed into LaRoche can't hit lefties. There was some bad luck, as several balls were hit pretty hard, but its hard to win if you score 1 or 2 runs.

Supposedly Coop loved Aiken last year, but that could have been a lot of misdirection. Picking 8th without a pick for a while after that, you would really have to be sure either of these guys will be fine in the long run. Of course the guy you draft might have the same thing happen a week after he signs. If the Sox were drafting lower, I think taking one of these guys would be a no brainer, but right now there seems to be a good shot at a quality healthy player. I hope they get Fulmer myself.

Why are people complaining about LaRoche vs. LH pitching when the 3 games in a row lost and lack of offense was against RH pitching?

It has been a long time but Crede and Rowand were pretty good. Crede realy had just blossomed. He was hitting over .300 with 30 homer gold glove defense when his back gave out in September of 2006. As far as rushed, I don't know if guys are really all that rushed. If the Sox send guys down like Josh Fields in 2008, Saladino and Sanchez this spring, many here complain. But something is wrong. But hitters leaving the organization going on to others and being really successful also is very rare, so it seems to be talent evaluation. IMO, they draft guys who have a difficult time making contact and can't seem to improve that. We will see what happens with guys like Sanchez and Micah.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ May 21, 2015 -> 09:30 PM) Nor am I impressed with your backwards reasoning on all of this. You are the one talking about "lists" and these alleged excuses fans make for not going to the ballpark, not me, as if you've actually surveyed the entire Sox fan base to come up with these conclusions. Meanwhile, I continue to make the very logical point that if you give our fans a compelling reason to come out, they will. Case in point, this Saturday. A good reason to come out, and the fans are eagerly responding. They will respond the same to a team that wins on a more consistent basis than the garbage that has been served up recently by the Sox and for 30 of the 35 years under the current ownership. I mean, what freaking fan base doesn't react well to winning! Do you think our fans don't care about winning? Of course they do, just like every other fan base on this planet. That's common sense, but unfortunately it's a little hard at the moment to prove to your doubting mind because we are in a 35 year franchise slump under Mr. Reinsdorf's leadership, where during that timeframe there's only really been one year of real winning worth talking about. 2012 there was a very compelling reason to come out, but fewer came out than in 2011. Funny people want to pack the park to see him now but didn't really care when he was hitting almost.400.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 21, 2015 -> 02:47 PM) He drove down their value's first by taking away potential revenue streams with his signs. Yes, but Crane Kennedy said they lost over $60 million by not having the boards up, and who knows what they are paying lawyers.

Ricketts bought 3 more rooftops. They now own 6 and operate one they do not own. I have always wondered why they didn't do this earlier. You can argue price, but the money they spent on litigation and the supposedly lost revenue of the video board delay probably more than offsets it.

I blame Robin. He doesn't get into Abreu's face after a bad AB. Show some fire. Show some passion.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 21, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) You would think the ability to have exclusive access to him would be worth more, instead of having to compete with everyone else in a bidding war. If you could trade him like a player, this would be true, but it's not like they could trade him anywhere and that is where he must coach. It really isn't a trade. It's compensation.