Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:24 PM) Who put up a worse OPS his last year in Safeco than Ackley did last year. I do think the dimensions were changed a bit, but if you are implying Ackley should be as good as Beltre, Hahn should trade for him.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) Don't get me wrong, I think their pen is still going to be very good but there are just some guys that can't possibly repeat what they did last season and so much of their success was based on that ridiculous pen. And they barely squeeked into the playoffs and got real lucky they advanced past the WC game, and are losing their ace. They are going to need some guys get a lot better with the bats in 2015 to win as many games.

Kind of surprised at the lull today. I thought it would be rapid fire trading today.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) maybe a bullpen pitcher. Maybe an OF- right now J Danks makes the roster and it wouldn't take much to do better than that. The Sox won't be able to just reserve a spot for someone they think will be ready in 2 years like they did last year though. I would think if they do pick someone, it would have to be a pitcher.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:53 PM) The greatest example of that I can possibly give is Adrian Beltre. Average OPS in Seattle during his 5 year contract was .759, in 2009 his OPS was .683. He went to Boston and Texas and immediately put up a .899 OPS over the next 5 years. There's a good chance that Safeco is the reason why he's not looked at as a sure fire hall of famer right now. So one HOF-calibur player.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) When he was age 25, he was putting up a .660 OPS in Safeco again during his 2nd big league season following a .622 OPS the previous year. By your standards, a .659 OPS in one year and a .660 OPS the next year is "trending up", so that change for Ackley at the age Viciedo currently is at is an ungodly unbelievably skyrocketing improvement. There is probably about a 90% chance Viciedo isn't the LF for the White Sox on opening day. Hahn mentioned a need to get more athletic, and never mentions him when they talk about the team. Never mentions John Danks either or Hector Noesi. So I don't think he will be counting on them. I just think Viciedo's potential is a better bet than Ackley. Are there examples of guys who were bad for several years in Safeco (before they moved the fences in ) who went on to much better things elsewhere? Keep in mind 2014 Viciedo had a .261 BABIP. That is 30 points below his career, and few more points under what his career BABIP was previously. So he did hit into some bad luck.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Seems like Dick is a miserable guy who likes trying to spread his affliction. Appropriate username. Enough of your BS.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) Your statement was accurate and completely meaningless, literally .001 points of OPS. It's the kind of statement no one wanting to have an honest discussion would ever make, because anyone who actually looked at the numbers would laugh at it. Not really. I am stating when mentioning ballpark factors, it didn't matter in Beckham's case. You are just assuming players that hit .240 in Seattle hit .300 at USCF. It isn't necessarily accurate. .244/.326/.293 in a small sample size at USCF for Ackley. If the Sox traded Viciedo for Ackley I wouldn't cancel the DirectTV, but if they said Ackley was going to be the regular LF or 2B, I would think this trying to win isn't really trying to win. Ackley wasn't trending up when he was Viciedo's age. People here seem to take great interest in players who are very similar to players they hated when they played for the White Sox.l

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) "Not able to hit well in a hitters park" is a pretty darn bad thing. Edit: now I actually just looked. You really thought I wouldn't look at the career number: Career: home/road splits for Gordon beckham Home: .681 OPS Road: .682 OPS. He was terrible at home in 2014, he was pretty much evenly weak in 2013, he was terrible on the road in 2012, he was equally rotten in both in 2011. Stronger at home again than on the road in 2010. Basically the only year your statement is accurate is 2014. I said he hit better on the road than at home for his career. My statement was accurate. There have been a growing number of White Sox starting to have this problem. I know Ackley wouldn't have it. That's a given.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) Things your post missed: 1. Gordon Beckham's career OPS is higher than Ackley's, however Beckham's is trending the wrong way. His OPS not counting his rookie year is .660, worse than Ackley's career mark by a good amount. 2. Gordon Beckham's 2014 was terrible. .618 OPS overall, .598 with the White Sox. Ackleys was .692 last year. That alone would be a huge upgrade, even if you didn't consider: 3. Seattle is one of the worst hitting parks in the majors, thus "Beckham and Ackely put up similar OPS numbers" means Ackley was doing a much, much better job, and if you put him in a non-non-seattle ballpark he'd be putting up much better numbers than Beckham. I'm not sure I'd put him at 2b and call him an excellent fit either, but that's how deeply flawed your post was. Beckham actually hit better on the road than at home during his career, and this board for the most part, pretty much wanted Beckham gone for the past 3 or 4 seasons.

He is totally forgotten, but I would still hold out some hope for Johnson. I don't think he's a lost cause yet. I definitely think he has a better chance to bounce back than some other 2014 minor league dissappointments.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you. QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) Ackley would be a terrific starting 2B for the White Sox. You actually went there?

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) Thought Robertson signing brought it to 39? And the Robertson signing isn't official yet. They said it would be a couple of days. Seems to me they have their eye on someone, either in this draft or some sort of trade.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) Ackley and Beckham is a pointless comparison. What's relevant is Ackley vs. Viciedo for 2015. They put up almost identical wRC+, but Ackley si a better defender, better baserunner, and left-handed. If Seattle wants to trade that for whatever semblance of upside Viciedo has left, I'd do it. At the worst, we'll have improved our OF defense without sacrificing anything offensively. That said, I wouldn't stop looking hard for a better option in LF. Why is it pointless when it was directed at a post that specifically said Ackley was the perfect fit at 2B for the White Sox? He was compared to the 2B this board wanted out of town for 3 or 4 years. If the White Sox trade for Ackley to be anything more than a utility man/ platoon guy, they really are going after trying to win in 2015 at most, half assed.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) Let's completely leave out all context and look at things in a vacuum. Beckham as starting 2B Beckham did that at USCF. Ackley did that at Saefco. Beckham's career wRC+ is 83. Ackley's career is wRC+ 92. The numbers are the same. Beckham actually hit worse at USCF than on the road. Ackley sucks. I know he is from another team, so his sucking isn't as bad as a White Sox sucking, but he sucks, and he can't hang with Beckham turning DPs.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) Is it better or worse for your replacement to make a lot of money? I think it would be worse if your replacement was a guy who was low paid. If you have a compete nt 2B, and have $240 million floating around, and a bunch of holes, you don't blow $240 million on a 2B. Gordon Beckham---garbage .244/.306/.374 Dustin Ackley---perfect fit .245/.309/.366 LMAO

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:14 PM) Noesi gave us a 3 million dollar value at a salary of 500K. That is a piece people would actually want. He was DFA'd by Seattle last year and waived by Texas. I doubt there is much interest in him around the league.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:19 PM) With Robinson Cano. If he was a nice option, someone they would actually want playing 2B, they could spend that money elsewhere. They had to overpay to get him out of NY.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) Ackley would be a terrific starting 2B for the White Sox. He is so great, the Mariners only spent $240 million to replace him.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) Mark Reynolds hit 30+ three times in his career though, and 40+ once. The best thing we have to say about DV is that he managed to scratch 20. Yes, but that was in the past. I know you hate Viciedo so you can't be objective , but he's not yet 26 years old, has power, and his babip last year WAS 30 points below his career average when it was .261. Brandon Moss, a guy you made a thread about, had 23 career homers through his age 27 season, is coming off hip surgery and is just as bad a defender.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 11:57 AM) That is nowhere near enough but the Astros are of the strangest teams. If Hahn loves Castro as much as the teenaged hack says, that trade would have been made already. The Astros are the most sabermetric organization in baseball. If their analysis isn't 100% sabermetric, it is very close. It would be a tough match with White Sox prospects. This would probably have to be a 3 way, maybe the 3 way Hahn was refering to last summer.

Look at Mark Reynolds, 2012. 2013 the Indians gave him $6 million. He can't field either.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 10:57 AM) I'm one of the first people to tell you that a good manager can make a big difference in a team, but 16 wins is, like I said, completely asinine. Lineup optimization adds something like 1.5-2 wins over 162 games and that's one of the manager's biggest roles on a team. I haven't seen the numbers on bullpen management, but I'm pretty damn positive it's not at 14.5 wins. Read a gamethread. If the 2014 White Sox had Joe Maddon managing the team, if they even had one of several Soxtalk posters managing the team, they go from 73 wins to well over 120.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 10:36 AM) No manager can add 16 wins to a team. It's asinine. Joe Maddon can, and anyone who replaces Robin Ventura adds a lot more than that.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) I hope they surprise me. Clearly that would appear to be the case but I personally am not expecting much of a return for him, if at all. I think this could be one of those scenarios where we misjudged the market, although I hope I am wrong and they (KW / Hahn) clearly know the market better than I do. But even if it is an A ball pitcher with an 8.00 ERA who throws 100, it's a better chance than zero.