Dick Allen

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 01:41 PM) Beckham is never going to step up, that's almost a done deal at this point. Hahn is going to have to make some slick moves but with the current rotation and globs on money that the Sox have, it's not unthinkable that they could be a good team next year. I think Beckham has the best chance to step up of the 3. This year wasn't the greatest, but he did hit into a lot of bad luck. If he can stay healthy, and that is a big IF, his wrist will be stronger and a few more balls are going to leave the field and get to the walls, and he will be better defensively. He was playing the last couple of months with a bad quad. I do think for the Sox to be a real good team Viciedo and Garcia are probably the most important bats that need to take off.

What if the Sox signed Abreu and McCann and traded Santiago and something for Lawrie. How would the team stack up at that point? As bad as this team seems, a couple of hitters, guys like Viciedo, Garcia and/or Beckham stepping up, and they are a pretty good team again.

If people can't stand watching Adam Dunn hit, why would they enjoy watching Mark Trumbo?

The rehab of Wrigley seems to be re-directing dollars that could be spent on the team. I still can't believe they say they aren't going after any big names now, yet spent all that money on Edwin Jackson. Edwin Jackson, $52 million? Theo needs to "evaluate" himself.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 12:47 PM) While I certainly understand the concern with Hector's control, we also have to remember that this is a guy who has been jerked around the last few years by this organization. Once he finds his comfort zone as a starter he might very well harnass his control a bit. Obviously there's a possibility that he wont as well but I'm certainly willing to give him that chance before I decide that he's a completely wild pitcher. He settled into the rotation, but he is going to have to find a way to limit his pitches. I have never seen a guy give up such few hits, and often baserunners, but have such an elevated pitch count. He is almost always at or near 100 pitches by the 5th inning. I also wonder if Coop and/or the White Sox organization just don't see him as a long-term rotation piece. They obviously wouldn't have their top prospects switch from relieving to starting as much as Hector, and from all indications the guy works hard and it a really good guy that doesn't cause problems, but something doesn't add up. It would really be interesting if we could listen in on trade ideas, and see exactly what other teams think of him, as everyone is always looking for pitching. I think if a team is willing to give up what it takes to acquire a #3 or #4 starter making close to minimum, he is the pitcher they trade. He just doesn't seem too popular with White Sox evaluators, either because of his style or maybe they think he is going to get hurt or something. They have given far less successful pitchers, with a lot less "stuff" a longer leash.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 12:47 PM) LOL, how am I moving the goal posts, when I never defined them? You and your boy Greg are making up what my definition of "good" is, and then trying to use whatever you come up with against me. You never asked me what I consider a good season, only that whatever you THINK I will say is wrong. You are basing a lot on the NBA. NBA hell is a .500 record because you aren't good enough to win it all, and aren't bad enough to get much better because of salary caps and immediate impacts of draft picks, and the fact that if you don't have a pick in the top few, chances of drafting a star that can lead you to a title aren't that great. That is different in the other sports. In fact, .500 next year for the Sox could be considered the next step to contention. It might not be, but baseball hell is going decades without a chance to win, like KC and Pittsburgh. Or what Houston or the Cubs or Minnesota are doing. Maybe it pays off in the end, but I would be willing to bet at least 2 of the 3 wind up very dissappointed if they are totally relying on prospects for their "sustained success".

Anytime you are being "evaluated" and they say they will have an announcement the day after the season ends, if they haven't called you to discuss an extention, you should probably get your resume ready. Theo should manage the team. He seems to know exactly what he wants, and how it is supposed to be accomplished.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) Yeah, I mean you can't put all that on Manto -- Semien wasn't going to be able to rake ML just like he did AA. But it's difficult to justify a hitting coach that believes in free-swinging when your team just lost 100 games chock full of free swingers. And you can bet Semien was taking direction from Manto as he was trying to adjust. The result, so far, has been a completely different player. Small sample, of course. C'mon. Semien was not striking out more and walking less at the major league level because he was listening to the hitting coach, and the entire Manto mantra was taken way out of context. He mentioned in a radio interview he would rather Adam Dunn swing at a pitch a little out of the zone vs. Verlander with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 with the infield back, than take a pitch and walk figuring there was a better chance at runs. Manto also emphasized contact. The problem is, you need players who can make contact. I don't know if Manto was any good or not. But if you blame him for Semien, you probably should blame him for everyone else, therefore, the Sox offense should be fine next year.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 10:14 AM) Why do you always come back to Borchard on this? Next time it could be BJ Upton or Stephen Strasburg or Buster Posey, unless you prefer the White Sox not spending on amateur talent and drafting Lance Broadway, Aaron Poreda, and Kyle McCulloch. As far as I know, those players weren't available for the White Sox at draft time. Borchard is mentioned because it is the one time the White Sox actually did what so many wanted them to do, go way over slot for someone dropping because of signability issues, although I don't think slot existed then, to sign someone. And the one time the Sox won it all, they spent that money on guys that actually helped them win. They paid Mitchell $15,000 less than the Angels paid Trout in the 2009 draft. It's a non issue moving forward. JR did a nice job making it that way, and frankly, it should be that way.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 10:06 AM) But when you throw in their age and experience it seems the guy under contract for 4 years has much more upside while the 28 year old with a long track record has more downside risk. Plus Trumbo is going be making a lot more cabbage than Hector the next couple of years.

I for one, am glad the Sox spent money on AJP and Iguchi rather than saving it and signing the next Joe Borchard. It wasn't necessarily the wrong thing to do. Now with the new rules, those days are pretty much done. In fact, I believe JR was a big voice in the new rules.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 10:02 AM) My favorite part from the article. Here is where Hahn and KW seem to differ. Whereas KW would spend every dime on the ML club and in fact take money from the International FA/Amateur draft pool of the Club, Hahn allocates a significant portion to them and won't subtract. Now it worked in 2005 and Iguchi/AJ probably were signed with draft/international FA money, I much rather Hahn's approach of less salary for the ML club and more player development. I really trust Hahn. I don't mind Hahn. I certainly don't think you can totally judge him yet, but to totally trust him? I think the jury is still out. This is a huge offseason for him. If the Sox are in the same position next season, while a couple of posters here will be doing cartwheels, if the people over him aren't meddling now, they definitely will be then.

Offensively, Trumbo is a right handed Adam Dunn without the walks.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 09:11 AM) No, tanking is unlikely to magically net you a franchise-saving player. As much as we've focused on that #3 pick in the first round, remember that the Sox also get the #3 pick in every round, along with the additional slot money that comes along with those picks. While it doesn't carry the magnitude of the NBA, having the #3 pick is still better than having the #19 pick, and you get to play the exact same number of postseason games. Also, I think the thing the 99 losses did more than anything was magnify the lack of offensive talent, especially in the area of OBP, that this organization currently has. In 2012, scoring the 4th most runs in the AL and being in a pennant race until the last week of the season was a total fluke, and it blinded everybody, myself included, as to how little offensive talent was actually there. The #3 pick is the prize. The #3 pick in the second round isn't as high as the #19 pick in the first round, the #3 pick in the 3rd round isn't as high as the #19 pick in the 2nd round, on and on and on, which apparently isn't good enough to build a team, although some teams don't seem to have the problems the Sox do developing hitters, even drafting late. Hopefully 5 years from now we will look back and be very happy the Sox selected #3, but don't kid yourself. If they drafted last in every round, they will still would have the opportunity to draft a future all star.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 29, 2013 -> 06:19 PM) Shoulda told the fans beforehand Robin was mailing it in. He didn't practice a Paulie going away moment once in spring training.

One thing I do question, how does the hitting coach get canned but the assistant keep his job?

Cutler doing his best Rex Grossman impression today.

The Sox immediate future offensive success is heavily dependent on Viciedo and Garcia developing quickly and being really good. I wonder if that is what cost Manto his job. I have a feeling Jaramillo is coming even though he won't appease saberheads, and for all the "lift and pull" people who thought that was Walker's way will find it is more Rudy's way. He has been the hitting instructor with a lot of young Latin players having success. They wouldn't have to pay him what the Cubs paid him, and JR doesn't mind big name hitting coaches. Charlie Lau, Walt Hrniak.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 29, 2013 -> 08:02 AM) I know but I'm sure Hahn had some input and he's also letting Robin stay around another year, at least. However, my point was, as an organization, how were they okay hiring a manager that hadn't ever coached/managed a single game in his life yet are looking for a guy with experience at a much less significant position? I don't know if Thome will be a good hitting instructor, or not, but to rule him out based solely on lack of experience doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, even moreso when you look at what they did when hiring Ventura. Manager and hitting coach are 2 different animals. Also this inexperience people keep harping about with Ventura is confusing. He played in the major leagues for 15 years. He knows what goes on in the clubhouse. Also, if Ventura had not played for the White Sox, they wouldn't have hired him to manage. They were very familiar with him? The other thing that make it moot is he now does have managerial experience. Also Ozzie never managed a game in his life before he managed the White Sox. Why does being a 3rd base coach qualify you but being a 3rd baseman does not? It will be interesting to see who they hire.

QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) If they don't land Abreu, I would prefer to move Tank for another underachiever. Maybe Ike Davis? Viciedo for Ike Davis? OMG

Pence was drafted in the 2nd round in 2004. Josh Fields, Tyler Lumdsen, Gio Gonzalez, Wes Whisler, and Donny Lucy were the Sox selections before Pence was off the board. Gio is a stud, but blaming draft position for the poor development in the Sox organization is a copout.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) I think the White Sox will be staying out of the top tier FA market period. Abreu, and some of the lesser free agent options sound the most realistic to me. Yes, the second or third tier is usually where they hang, but I do think they make a run at McCann. BTW, is Bochy considered a good manager? I read Robin is horrible because guys like Rios and Alexei rarely got a day off. Pence has played ever game this year. Bochy must really be a moron.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) Viciedo was average last year and terrible this year, De Aza was solid last year and terrible this year, and Beckham has obviously gotten sloppier and lost a step (which he should not be doing at his age). The step Beckham lost is a quad injury he has been playing with for a couple of months.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 10:30 AM) As I said previously, I don't know if anything would be different under a new hitting coach, but I don't see how things could get any worse. When you finish second to last in all of baseball in runs scored, you have to try something new, especially when none of your young guys are progressing. Let me ask you this, what's the downside in firing Manto? The downside is he actually might be better than what you replace him with if and when you get competent hitters, and firing guys who aren't the problem never fixes the problem and gives you a reputation.It is like any company who had a bad year and lost money, getting rid of their better more expensive employees because they lost money anyway. If you want things to turnaround, you keep the good ones.it is an ongoing process. As I stated, there may be a logical reason to can Manto, but the 2013 offensive output isn't one of them. Whoever you think is the greatest hitting coach of all time would be in the same spot.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 07:44 AM) Then how did the same group of guys, minus A.J. & Youk, finish 7th in runs scored the year before? It wasn't the same group of guys. You mentioned 2 of the biggest reasons for the offense last year and their replacements were garbage. Konerko hasn't been the same. Viciedo got hurt. Beckham got hurt. Who are the players with a dropoff you can reasonably say with a different hitting coach, things would be a lot better? We went through this several years with Walker. According to a lot of people on this board, he was the reason the Sox didn't win.he leaves and it's happy time here. The Braves hire him and this board laughs. How can they be so dumb? Their offense is fine. The Sox offense will be fine once they acquire better hitters. If they don't, you are just going to want the next guy to get fired. It seems from Hahn's comments a coach or 2 is going to go. I think Boston is in charge of OF defense and baserunning. It seems he will be a sacrificial lamb. They could have a decent reason to fire Manto. I just think basing it on the results of the garbage you gave him to work with would be ridiculous. It would be like saying Bo Porter is by far the worst manager in baseball because his team lost the most games.