Dick Allen

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 10, 2013 -> 09:41 AM) It's much less about KW trading prospects and much more about the organization refusing to spend competitively on acquiring amateur talent. It's probably also a failure in player development. I think there is a problem identifying guys who are going to hit. They have developed pitching just fine, but you would think if they had drafted guys who could or would hit, considering how they have pawned off prospects on other teams, at least a couple of them over the years would have some success. I understand they like the toolsy guys who they hope to develop, but almost all their top hitting prospects since Crede and Rowand and Jeremy Reed have been huge swing and miss ridiculously high strikeout rate guys who really don't offset that with a ton of homers and a good OBP. It's almost as if they draft the same player year after year and hope this time it will be different. I'd like to see them just one draft, concentrate on baseball players the first several rounds, not athletes. Being incredibly fast or strong does you no good if you can't hit the ball, or lay off pitches out of the strike zone, or can get a decent jump.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 06:51 PM) You're right we don't have much, but that's unfortunately why a couple free agents isn't enough to make it happen. It's a rough situation, but spending money in free agency not only won't solve it, but it'll but the solution off even further. This is the product of selling out the system and drafting poorly for several years -- it works out fine as long as all of your acquisitions keep working out, but if a few of them bomb at the same time, you can't do anything until the money clears. This is why so many of us feel like high draft picks and prospects are important, because we don't want to see ourselves in this position again. We want Hahn to bite the bullet and do this right so that we an be back to expecting our team to be competitive years after year. This stuff won't help much next year, you're right, but a couple expensive old FAs won't help enough to get us a winner, so we have no choice but to bide our time. We're going to have to eat it for a little while, but if we stay the course, it won't have to be for long. If we get all rash and impatient, we're most likely going to be frustratingly in the middle for a long time. As much as I didn't admire KW, I think everyone needs to keep one thing straight. The farmhands for the most part he "sold off" weren't going to make the White Sox any better than they are. Gio is an exception, but other than that, he traded a bunch of garbage for mostly garbage, but I would say he came out ahead overall. There is no doubt the Sox haven't developed hitters worth a darn for an alarming length of time, but it's not like the guys he traded became stars. They couldn't hit for their new teams.

Unless he's due a significant pay bump, I see no reason not to bring Veal back. He could return to the 2012 version.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 02:22 PM) You may be right when we look back at the draft, that the top picks didn't matter. But for now, I want them to have as much flexibility as possible. We don't know how the class will shake out, there may be a clear top two, or top four, or whatever. The higher our pick, though, the better our chances. That's all it is. Like a few have said before -- if Ws are coming because of legitimate improvements in our core players, then that's fine, that's great. But if it's bad process producing good results, it won't last, and we're just losing one potential advantage for the future, however small it is. When I watch though, I never actually end up hoping for futility. I don't think my head can do that. But when the game is over and we lost, I feel just fine about it. Kinda like Jerksticks is saying, I think. I probably would be upset in retrospect though if I saw someone do something stupid and it worked out. At the end of the day, I just want our hitters to have a clue. If they can't get it, I want to replace them as fast as possible. Man, I've been watching other teams lately because the Sox are so ugly, and I gotta say, it makes me so envious to see how good teams are playing. Hitters just hitting, Watching the Sox all season has made hitting seem like a futile effort, but it really isn't for most of the league. Blech. This is what I don't understand. If guys haven't clearly made themselves top 3 picks right now, why would next college or HS season be enough to say, yeah that guy is a future MLB star? It seems to be putting a heck of a lot of weight on 60 games, if that. To me it makes it more of a crapshoot. There will be at least 5 future stars in the 2014 draft. They might not all be first round picks, and as usual, even when chosing in the 20s, the Sox will have a shot at one of them at minimum. It comes down to your scouts. They screw up #3 picks pretty often.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 02:00 PM) Yeah, but on opening day they weren't meaningless. That's the distinction here. We hold out hope when there's hope to have, but when you're 25 games under 500 with like a month to go, the W column becomes meaningless. Even tomorrow I'm going to be holding out for hope on opening day, and probably well into June at the very very least. Hopiong for losses in September when you have the worst non-Astros record in the league is way different than what you're describing. Maybe not at the time they didn't seem meaningless, but as the season unfolded, they became meaningless. Isn't trying to see into the future what we all are trying to do? The standings now are meaningless, but playing well may not be meaningless. The Sox were awful in 2007. For quite a while they were in position to grab the #1 pick. They had a good September dropping them to 8th and they picked Beckham. I think there is only 1 player with a higher career WAR than Beckham picked before him and he wasn't picked top 3. And who knows what affect that September had on the next season when the Sox made the playoffs. Buster Posey was picked #5, by far the prize of that draft, and it wasn't signability. He signed for $50k more than Tim Beckham who was chosen #1. A couple of good hitters and this team is right back into it. Cleveland was horrid and added Swisher, Bourn, Reynolds. Reynolds is gone, Bourn hasn't hit much and Swisher's numbers haven't been what they normally are. If the Sox sign the correct guys, and a couple of their young bats take a step up, they should be OK next year. I just want them to play well. If they drop to 5th, a future All Star will be available.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 01:45 PM) You just still don't get it, and that amazes me. You're right. I don't get it. Never will. You want the White Sox to lose every game thinking it will definitely make them better in the long run. You still have yet to prove it. As far as I'm concerned, someone posting on a White Sox message board game thread cussing when the Sox take the lead is doing nothing more than trolling. BTW, it isn't as if the Sox will be picking 15th if they suddenly start winning now. I'm a bad fan. I want the Sox to play well, and win. If it costs them a spot or 2 in the draft, I really doubt it will be the difference between being horrible or great for the next 10 years.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) You didn't see anyone rooting for White Sox losses after the first week of April, so why would you expect anyone to root for Bears losses after the first week in football? Your comment doesn't make any sense because the Bears are 1/16th through their season any anything can happen. The White Sox are 90% through their season any NOTHING can happen. These two teams are no where near in the same spot right now. Yeah, but if they lost on Opening Day and more often the first week, it would have helped their draft position correct? So those wins were just as meaningless and hurtful to draft position now. If you are going to cuss Gillaspie for going deep now, you should be upset Flowers hit a game winning homer on Opening Day. The Sox were 1-9 this roadtrip. It's just obnoxious to me people were upset they won a game. Not upset because 1 out of 10 was embarrassing, but because 1 out of 10 was too much. The Sox have 19 games left. They are probably going to win at least 8 or 9 of them.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 12:13 PM) Yes. Don't you? I'm not for tanking in any sport. I just don't know why it is totally different whether the season just started or is almost over. If you aren't good enough, you aren't good enough. You still play to win or IMO it will come back to haunt you one way or another. How many teams have benefitted over the years from losing games basically on purpose? I also think if the Bears had lost yesterday, there wouldn't be a very optimistic outlook. I was at the game, and in the first half there was a lot of complaining coming from behind me in the stands.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 12:06 PM) The Bears thing makes no sense to me at all. It's like week one, right? The Bears have a shot at contending. Making the playoffs is easier in football. They have a real chance at making the playoffs and therefore some chance of winning it all. The White Sox are 57-85 on September 9th, 24.5 GB of the division leader. The ship has sailed for this team. So you think the Bears have a legitimate shot at the Super Bowl this season? Also keep in mind the prize is much bigger to be that bad in the NFL. This is like a shot at LeBron, let alone the top pick in every other round.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 11:54 AM) Give it up. You guys aren't going to agree. There's no point arguing this anymore All I am saying is it is the same concept. That, and if a lot here got their wish and Ventura turned wins into losses by purposely bringing in Axelrod or Troncoso or some other gas can to screw it up, he would lose the team. The players might not be any good, but they are professionals. Trying to lose and/or not trying to win,doesn't go over very well.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 9, 2013 -> 09:02 AM) For a stupid reason. If people in the win now at all costs thread didn't like that thread why did they post in it? This is being treated like it's f***ing grade school and people can't defend themselves. I am pretty sure most of us are all adults here. And I am angry because I never got to respond to Dick Allen's idiotic comparison to the Bears. Why is it idiotic? In fact, there is more reason to swear at Cutler if he throws a game winning TD pass now than Conor Gillaspie hitting a homer to give the Sox the lead. The Bears aren't going to win the SB, everyone knows it, and what some scouts say is the greatest defensive prospect ever is available at #1. Why shouldn't they just lose out and grab him? The people cussing when the Sox win now don't have a clue who the Sox will draft, therefore have no idea the difference between #2 or #3 than #5 or #6.

I can't see Cano leaving the Yankees. Jay Z has a lot to lose if it was thought he steered him out of there. Stone keeps mentioning McCann. If the Sox were to get him, and dreaming Abreu, plus some development from the youngsters, they wouldn't be that far off. Cleveland made it interesting this year bringing in a couple of decent players and a couple they already got rid of.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 6, 2013 -> 07:18 PM) Might as well keep trying with Mitchell It seems the Sox just can't admit they were wrong.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 7, 2013 -> 04:19 PM) This is the silliest thing I've ever read on Soxtalk, building a case that Addison Reed is better than Chris Sale. Where did I write that? Stop trolling. You said his stuff isn't all that great. Looking at the actual results, hitters seem to disagree.

John Saunders in the studio is looking a lot like Al Sharpton these days.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 7, 2013 -> 03:54 PM) His stuff at the major league level just hasn't been what it was reported to be in the minors. Yet he has a better WHIP and BAA than Chris Sale.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 7, 2013 -> 12:41 PM) Get him his innings now so that his arm can take it next year. You have to be careful. If he is too gassed, his mechanics can change and an injury could happen.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 6, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) He takes a ton of called 3rd strikes on center-cut pitches. He also check swung, but too far and he gone, at a pitch at a game I was at a couple of weeks ago that bounced 4 feet in front of home plate. It barely cleared the grass. Watching him swing at that and , like you stated take so many right down the middle, has zero to do with his shoulder. He is not a good hitter. There may be a time he gets hot and hits you some homers, but I don't see Flowers having sustained success with the bat. IMO, he is perfectly fine as a back up. Pick his spots and he could be a little more dangerous.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 6, 2013 -> 11:17 AM) I read an article that said expect McCann to get between 60 and 70 million. Teams don't see him as a catcher past two years. Funny, that's the same timeframe Roland Hemond gave JR about Carlton Fisk's catching career when they signed him. That said, I don't expect the Sox to sign McCann. I think they will sign free agents, but not the top tier guys.

The more I see Gillaspie, the more I think he will be lucky if he's collecting a major league paycheck next year. His bat and glove have really taken steps backwards.

If Flowers thought it was affecting his performance, he should have had this surgery done months ago. I understand the finally getting your chance thing, but giving him the benefit of the doubt now saying he was beat up isn't the way to go. I do think he's fine as a back up, and it appears all went well with the surgery, very minimal damage. I don't know how it affected all his passed balls, but the bottom line is he is 27 years old and hasn't proved anything other than he has some power, has a tough time making contact and doesn't get on base very much, at the major league level. I really doubt this problem took 60 or 70 points off his average or 100-150 points off his OPS. Planning like it did would be wrong.

I think Ventura good be a good example for how long a really good college prospect might take. He was drafted in 1988, and was a big contributor in 1991. So, any stud from this draft, if he's a college player, I believe it would be realistic to think he could be a difference maker in 2017.

Hub Arkush is really bitter about the demise of his magazine. They asked him if the Ravens would be good this year, he asid they weren't good last year they just got hot. Then someone said that they like the Seahawks. Hub said a lot of people love the Seahawks, they need to study more. Then he said they were a good football team. So a team he said was no good last year won the SB, and he is ripping guys for liking a team he said is good. Of course he just laughed off the Bears. He would laugh off the Bears if the had the current day equivalent of the 1985 team.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Sep 5, 2013 -> 12:31 PM) i think kenny just gave ozzie all he wanted that season knowing he would crash and burn. it was well known this was ozzie's preferred way of constructing the team. it really magnified how bad of a manager he was. If that is/was the case, it really is not better than Ozzie sabotoging 2011 to show KW's failure.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2013 -> 07:36 PM) robin will find a way to keep him on the bench as long as I'm watching... Robin didn't practice calling the bullpen and having Webb warm up enough in spring training.