Dick Allen

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 10:14 AM) Why do you always come back to Borchard on this? Next time it could be BJ Upton or Stephen Strasburg or Buster Posey, unless you prefer the White Sox not spending on amateur talent and drafting Lance Broadway, Aaron Poreda, and Kyle McCulloch. As far as I know, those players weren't available for the White Sox at draft time. Borchard is mentioned because it is the one time the White Sox actually did what so many wanted them to do, go way over slot for someone dropping because of signability issues, although I don't think slot existed then, to sign someone. And the one time the Sox won it all, they spent that money on guys that actually helped them win. They paid Mitchell $15,000 less than the Angels paid Trout in the 2009 draft. It's a non issue moving forward. JR did a nice job making it that way, and frankly, it should be that way.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 10:06 AM) But when you throw in their age and experience it seems the guy under contract for 4 years has much more upside while the 28 year old with a long track record has more downside risk. Plus Trumbo is going be making a lot more cabbage than Hector the next couple of years.

I for one, am glad the Sox spent money on AJP and Iguchi rather than saving it and signing the next Joe Borchard. It wasn't necessarily the wrong thing to do. Now with the new rules, those days are pretty much done. In fact, I believe JR was a big voice in the new rules.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 10:02 AM) My favorite part from the article. Here is where Hahn and KW seem to differ. Whereas KW would spend every dime on the ML club and in fact take money from the International FA/Amateur draft pool of the Club, Hahn allocates a significant portion to them and won't subtract. Now it worked in 2005 and Iguchi/AJ probably were signed with draft/international FA money, I much rather Hahn's approach of less salary for the ML club and more player development. I really trust Hahn. I don't mind Hahn. I certainly don't think you can totally judge him yet, but to totally trust him? I think the jury is still out. This is a huge offseason for him. If the Sox are in the same position next season, while a couple of posters here will be doing cartwheels, if the people over him aren't meddling now, they definitely will be then.

Offensively, Trumbo is a right handed Adam Dunn without the walks.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 09:11 AM) No, tanking is unlikely to magically net you a franchise-saving player. As much as we've focused on that #3 pick in the first round, remember that the Sox also get the #3 pick in every round, along with the additional slot money that comes along with those picks. While it doesn't carry the magnitude of the NBA, having the #3 pick is still better than having the #19 pick, and you get to play the exact same number of postseason games. Also, I think the thing the 99 losses did more than anything was magnify the lack of offensive talent, especially in the area of OBP, that this organization currently has. In 2012, scoring the 4th most runs in the AL and being in a pennant race until the last week of the season was a total fluke, and it blinded everybody, myself included, as to how little offensive talent was actually there. The #3 pick is the prize. The #3 pick in the second round isn't as high as the #19 pick in the first round, the #3 pick in the 3rd round isn't as high as the #19 pick in the 2nd round, on and on and on, which apparently isn't good enough to build a team, although some teams don't seem to have the problems the Sox do developing hitters, even drafting late. Hopefully 5 years from now we will look back and be very happy the Sox selected #3, but don't kid yourself. If they drafted last in every round, they will still would have the opportunity to draft a future all star.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 29, 2013 -> 06:19 PM) Shoulda told the fans beforehand Robin was mailing it in. He didn't practice a Paulie going away moment once in spring training.

One thing I do question, how does the hitting coach get canned but the assistant keep his job?

Cutler doing his best Rex Grossman impression today.

The Sox immediate future offensive success is heavily dependent on Viciedo and Garcia developing quickly and being really good. I wonder if that is what cost Manto his job. I have a feeling Jaramillo is coming even though he won't appease saberheads, and for all the "lift and pull" people who thought that was Walker's way will find it is more Rudy's way. He has been the hitting instructor with a lot of young Latin players having success. They wouldn't have to pay him what the Cubs paid him, and JR doesn't mind big name hitting coaches. Charlie Lau, Walt Hrniak.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 29, 2013 -> 08:02 AM) I know but I'm sure Hahn had some input and he's also letting Robin stay around another year, at least. However, my point was, as an organization, how were they okay hiring a manager that hadn't ever coached/managed a single game in his life yet are looking for a guy with experience at a much less significant position? I don't know if Thome will be a good hitting instructor, or not, but to rule him out based solely on lack of experience doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, even moreso when you look at what they did when hiring Ventura. Manager and hitting coach are 2 different animals. Also this inexperience people keep harping about with Ventura is confusing. He played in the major leagues for 15 years. He knows what goes on in the clubhouse. Also, if Ventura had not played for the White Sox, they wouldn't have hired him to manage. They were very familiar with him? The other thing that make it moot is he now does have managerial experience. Also Ozzie never managed a game in his life before he managed the White Sox. Why does being a 3rd base coach qualify you but being a 3rd baseman does not? It will be interesting to see who they hire.

QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) If they don't land Abreu, I would prefer to move Tank for another underachiever. Maybe Ike Davis? Viciedo for Ike Davis? OMG

Pence was drafted in the 2nd round in 2004. Josh Fields, Tyler Lumdsen, Gio Gonzalez, Wes Whisler, and Donny Lucy were the Sox selections before Pence was off the board. Gio is a stud, but blaming draft position for the poor development in the Sox organization is a copout.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) I think the White Sox will be staying out of the top tier FA market period. Abreu, and some of the lesser free agent options sound the most realistic to me. Yes, the second or third tier is usually where they hang, but I do think they make a run at McCann. BTW, is Bochy considered a good manager? I read Robin is horrible because guys like Rios and Alexei rarely got a day off. Pence has played ever game this year. Bochy must really be a moron.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) Viciedo was average last year and terrible this year, De Aza was solid last year and terrible this year, and Beckham has obviously gotten sloppier and lost a step (which he should not be doing at his age). The step Beckham lost is a quad injury he has been playing with for a couple of months.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 10:30 AM) As I said previously, I don't know if anything would be different under a new hitting coach, but I don't see how things could get any worse. When you finish second to last in all of baseball in runs scored, you have to try something new, especially when none of your young guys are progressing. Let me ask you this, what's the downside in firing Manto? The downside is he actually might be better than what you replace him with if and when you get competent hitters, and firing guys who aren't the problem never fixes the problem and gives you a reputation.It is like any company who had a bad year and lost money, getting rid of their better more expensive employees because they lost money anyway. If you want things to turnaround, you keep the good ones.it is an ongoing process. As I stated, there may be a logical reason to can Manto, but the 2013 offensive output isn't one of them. Whoever you think is the greatest hitting coach of all time would be in the same spot.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 07:44 AM) Then how did the same group of guys, minus A.J. & Youk, finish 7th in runs scored the year before? It wasn't the same group of guys. You mentioned 2 of the biggest reasons for the offense last year and their replacements were garbage. Konerko hasn't been the same. Viciedo got hurt. Beckham got hurt. Who are the players with a dropoff you can reasonably say with a different hitting coach, things would be a lot better? We went through this several years with Walker. According to a lot of people on this board, he was the reason the Sox didn't win.he leaves and it's happy time here. The Braves hire him and this board laughs. How can they be so dumb? Their offense is fine. The Sox offense will be fine once they acquire better hitters. If they don't, you are just going to want the next guy to get fired. It seems from Hahn's comments a coach or 2 is going to go. I think Boston is in charge of OF defense and baserunning. It seems he will be a sacrificial lamb. They could have a decent reason to fire Manto. I just think basing it on the results of the garbage you gave him to work with would be ridiculous. It would be like saying Bo Porter is by far the worst manager in baseball because his team lost the most games.

The decision on Sveum is coming Monday. It seems to me evaluating the last 3 games of the season is pretty silly. They know what the deal is. You would think if he is coming back they would just say so. The evidence points to a new manager.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 07:04 AM) Let's see, he oversaw an offense that will finish 29th in runs scored this year despite playing half of their games at the Cell. The vast majority of the offense regressed from 2012 and none of the young guys made any progress. I'm not sure what there is to argue here. In any real world profession a guy would be fired with those kind of results. And honestly, I don't blame this offense's incompetence on Manto, but clearly he wasn't doing anything to help us this year. Bring in a new hitting coach and hope he can connect with a guy or two. That alone would be a huge upgrade. If the fire Manto because they have a philosophical difference moving forward, it makes sense, but if you are going to fire him based on the 2013 stats, there is not a hitting coach past, present or future that would have been able to keep their job with this bunch. It would be like firing a professor because he couldn't get a guy with the intelligence of a 6 year old to pass organic chemisty.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) And all he had to say was, "I'm going to take a month to decide after the season, period." right after a game or right before the game. And I guarantee the reporters would've left him alone about it because everyone respects him. That is what he did, but instead of doing it one on one everyday, he just did it for the group once. He is probably going to retire, and when he does the team is going to make it a lot bigger deal than this meeting.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) He said nothing that had not been reported earlier this is non news. It was basically mentioned that this meeting would be exactly what it was. When Paulie retires, there will be a huge formal press conference called by the White Sox, and we will know what it is about in advance. Greg was right again. He was doing this because he gets asked about this multiple times daily and it was only going to get worse the final days of the season. Now the press knows they won't get a different answer.

Check stubhub a few hours before the game. Diamond boxes were $8 last night.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 01:26 PM) You call it because everybody wants to talk to him this weekend about his future plans and he might as well do it on one day for all the media so a.) nobody gets any scoop and b.) he gets it over with and doesn't have to repeat himself 15 times. Everybody wants things cut and dried. Paul Konerko is hitting .250ish. He has never told the media about his physical problems, he's never made excuses. He deserves a chance to assess his body, which is what I believe it comes down to. If he's going to remain banged up and only capable of .245, .250 and 8-10 homers he'll probably reluctantly quit. My vibe as a total Paulie lover is he wants to keep going. I know that disappoints some of you who want him to go out somewhat on top, but if he's healthy, he's coming back. That's my take and I'm sticking with it. Not bad for someone who only fired a 32 on his ACT.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 01:21 PM) Well it's after noon. What's the story? Paulie said he and the Sox agreed to a 3 year extension and that he hoped he will be able to end his career with the White Sox. He also said Adam Dunn has been given a no trade clause, Hector Santiago is headed back to the bullpen, Alejandro De Aza is signed to an extension through his arb years and first year of eligible free agency, and that Greg Walker would be returning as the hitting coach in 2014.

He's "meeting with the media", it's not an official press conference, which I think would be pretty standard if he was going to announce he was hanging them up. He may hint which way he's leaning, but I don't think anything official comes out today. Paul Konerko announcing his retirement would be a gigantic story. I don't think it would quietly happen. Not to be dramatic, but it would be one of the biggest White Sox stories the past 30 or 40 years with the WS, Frank leaving and Ozzie leaving.