Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) Viciedo was average last year and terrible this year, De Aza was solid last year and terrible this year, and Beckham has obviously gotten sloppier and lost a step (which he should not be doing at his age). The step Beckham lost is a quad injury he has been playing with for a couple of months.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 10:30 AM) As I said previously, I don't know if anything would be different under a new hitting coach, but I don't see how things could get any worse. When you finish second to last in all of baseball in runs scored, you have to try something new, especially when none of your young guys are progressing. Let me ask you this, what's the downside in firing Manto? The downside is he actually might be better than what you replace him with if and when you get competent hitters, and firing guys who aren't the problem never fixes the problem and gives you a reputation.It is like any company who had a bad year and lost money, getting rid of their better more expensive employees because they lost money anyway. If you want things to turnaround, you keep the good ones.it is an ongoing process. As I stated, there may be a logical reason to can Manto, but the 2013 offensive output isn't one of them. Whoever you think is the greatest hitting coach of all time would be in the same spot.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 07:44 AM) Then how did the same group of guys, minus A.J. & Youk, finish 7th in runs scored the year before? It wasn't the same group of guys. You mentioned 2 of the biggest reasons for the offense last year and their replacements were garbage. Konerko hasn't been the same. Viciedo got hurt. Beckham got hurt. Who are the players with a dropoff you can reasonably say with a different hitting coach, things would be a lot better? We went through this several years with Walker. According to a lot of people on this board, he was the reason the Sox didn't win.he leaves and it's happy time here. The Braves hire him and this board laughs. How can they be so dumb? Their offense is fine. The Sox offense will be fine once they acquire better hitters. If they don't, you are just going to want the next guy to get fired. It seems from Hahn's comments a coach or 2 is going to go. I think Boston is in charge of OF defense and baserunning. It seems he will be a sacrificial lamb. They could have a decent reason to fire Manto. I just think basing it on the results of the garbage you gave him to work with would be ridiculous. It would be like saying Bo Porter is by far the worst manager in baseball because his team lost the most games.

The decision on Sveum is coming Monday. It seems to me evaluating the last 3 games of the season is pretty silly. They know what the deal is. You would think if he is coming back they would just say so. The evidence points to a new manager.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 07:04 AM) Let's see, he oversaw an offense that will finish 29th in runs scored this year despite playing half of their games at the Cell. The vast majority of the offense regressed from 2012 and none of the young guys made any progress. I'm not sure what there is to argue here. In any real world profession a guy would be fired with those kind of results. And honestly, I don't blame this offense's incompetence on Manto, but clearly he wasn't doing anything to help us this year. Bring in a new hitting coach and hope he can connect with a guy or two. That alone would be a huge upgrade. If the fire Manto because they have a philosophical difference moving forward, it makes sense, but if you are going to fire him based on the 2013 stats, there is not a hitting coach past, present or future that would have been able to keep their job with this bunch. It would be like firing a professor because he couldn't get a guy with the intelligence of a 6 year old to pass organic chemisty.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) And all he had to say was, "I'm going to take a month to decide after the season, period." right after a game or right before the game. And I guarantee the reporters would've left him alone about it because everyone respects him. That is what he did, but instead of doing it one on one everyday, he just did it for the group once. He is probably going to retire, and when he does the team is going to make it a lot bigger deal than this meeting.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) He said nothing that had not been reported earlier this is non news. It was basically mentioned that this meeting would be exactly what it was. When Paulie retires, there will be a huge formal press conference called by the White Sox, and we will know what it is about in advance. Greg was right again. He was doing this because he gets asked about this multiple times daily and it was only going to get worse the final days of the season. Now the press knows they won't get a different answer.

Check stubhub a few hours before the game. Diamond boxes were $8 last night.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 01:26 PM) You call it because everybody wants to talk to him this weekend about his future plans and he might as well do it on one day for all the media so a.) nobody gets any scoop and b.) he gets it over with and doesn't have to repeat himself 15 times. Everybody wants things cut and dried. Paul Konerko is hitting .250ish. He has never told the media about his physical problems, he's never made excuses. He deserves a chance to assess his body, which is what I believe it comes down to. If he's going to remain banged up and only capable of .245, .250 and 8-10 homers he'll probably reluctantly quit. My vibe as a total Paulie lover is he wants to keep going. I know that disappoints some of you who want him to go out somewhat on top, but if he's healthy, he's coming back. That's my take and I'm sticking with it. Not bad for someone who only fired a 32 on his ACT.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Sep 27, 2013 -> 01:21 PM) Well it's after noon. What's the story? Paulie said he and the Sox agreed to a 3 year extension and that he hoped he will be able to end his career with the White Sox. He also said Adam Dunn has been given a no trade clause, Hector Santiago is headed back to the bullpen, Alejandro De Aza is signed to an extension through his arb years and first year of eligible free agency, and that Greg Walker would be returning as the hitting coach in 2014.

He's "meeting with the media", it's not an official press conference, which I think would be pretty standard if he was going to announce he was hanging them up. He may hint which way he's leaning, but I don't think anything official comes out today. Paul Konerko announcing his retirement would be a gigantic story. I don't think it would quietly happen. Not to be dramatic, but it would be one of the biggest White Sox stories the past 30 or 40 years with the WS, Frank leaving and Ozzie leaving.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) His recent quotes definitely have the sound of a guy who has been completely exhausted and beaten down by trying to deal with this team this season. Didn't you say he "checked out" long ago? How could he be beaten down if he checked out?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 02:00 PM) That is including Dylan Axelrod and his 5.68 ERA over 128 innings as well as a few other guys who were absolutely terrible in their time up. They will not be in the team's long term plans. No, but other bad pitchers will be with the team every year. It's almost impossible to avoid.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 01:42 PM) What are you basing this on? If you're looking at something like runs allowed, then even an average ranking would be incredible given we play half of our games at the Cell. The Sox's staff has definitely better than average this year. Runs, walks, strikeouts, hits allowed, ERA. They are all around average. Also, White Sox pitchers historically have pitched better at home than on the road, so I kind of blow off park factor.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 26, 2013 -> 10:49 AM) Because the pitching staff has been pretty damn good this year? The pitching staff's performance was pretty average in the AL. Of course you could make a point the defense will make their overall numbers look not as good as they should have been, and it would be hard to argue, and they dumped Thornton, Peavy and Crain, but they are pretty much in the middle of the pack in most of the big categories. The other parts of the team performed so poorly, even an average-like performance seems spectacular.

Swish killed it, but I'm pretty sure there are several hundred guys who would have hit that meatball a long way.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFan05 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 07:32 PM) From what I'm hearing Leury sounds like a Billy Hamilton divided by two He is so small, maybe he could crouch like Rickey Henderson used to and draw a ton of walks.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 07:17 PM) I spent the entire year last year crediting the manager for the great fundamental play the whole year. They came out of ST focused like lasers on their jobs and it lasted the whole year. You probably gave him too much credit, and now are giving him too much blame. In August, if Alejandro De Aza gets doubled off of third on a soft liner or throws the ball over the cutoff man's head, blaming it on spring training is way out there. According to Stone, they work on fundamentals all the time. In fact, Gonzo took a picture for Twitter a couple of months ago with Daryl Boston holding a pre game baserunning clinic. They had 2 or 3 boneheaded baserunning plays later that night. There are a couple of guys with very low baseball IQs that probably can't be helped, sort of like not everyone can get a 35 on the ACT no matter how much they prepare. They also have guys getting a little older, and the perfect storm occurred. Everything went wrong.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 07:03 PM) AJ pierzynski disagrees You are correct. Jermaine Due also stole 1b, when he fouled one off during the WS and acted like he was hit. Paulie hit the grand slam the next pitch. Leury does need to learn how to bunt for hits. If he does, he could become extremely valuable.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) Again, you insist that they adequately worked on fundamentals, the evidence instead says that the white sox are te first team in nearly 100 years to have the best fielding percentage one year and the worst fielding percentage the next year. And its been pointed out over and over again, they work on fundamentals, as Marty pointed out Connie Mack managed the last team to do that. Was he a horrible manager? BTW, It is funny that fielding percentage seems to be a worthwhile stat sometimes, but other times it is laughed at. I would think if taking groundballs in March was as vital as you claim, and it was blown off, after playing X number of games, the Sox would have been at the point of where the were a season ago in April, yet the fundamentals never improved. I am quite sure if the Sox never worked on them like you claim, that story would be out there, but it is not.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 06:24 PM) Leury is fast. Wow. Caused a terrible throw by Kipnis with his speed and I think he would if been safe too The only way to steal first base is to learn how to bunt.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 06:36 PM) Again, why does the offense sucking balls mean that Robin did a good job this year? We all know the talent level on this team, especially on offense, was pretty damn bad and that a poor season would have been the outcome no matter who the manager was. That doesn't mean that Robin didn't contribute to our struggles as well with poor decision-making. Let's hold everyone accountable for their roles in this mess, even if some parties are more responsible than others. While the players are the chief culprits here, Robin does not deserve a free pass IMO. Judge the guy when he has good players. Every manager loses with bad players. LaRussa lost with bad players. Bobby Cox lost with bad players. Piniella lost with bad players. Scoscia lost with bad players. There is nobody who can win with bad players. Whoever the managerial flavor of the day is right now would lose with the Sox roster. Robin has been falsely accused of things on this board. Not working on fundamentals in spring training. False. Not wanting to manage. False. Let it play out. If good players lose under his watch, make a change, but as of now judging him on what he is being judged on is like judging Cooper on Dylan Axelrod's performance. No one will do that.

Someone over at WSI had Reed's and Sale's stats against teams other than Cleveland. Sale has an ERA of 2.16 and Reed, 2.97. Both get blasted by the Indians.

De Aza-consensus he isn't very good, get rid of him Ramirez-consensus, he has to go Gillespie-consensus, not a regular player Dunn-consensus, please retire Konerko-consensus, see Dunn. Garcia-consensus, hope for the future Viciedo-consensus, maybe hope for the future Beckham-consensus, bust, should probably go Phegley-consensus, the Sox need a catcher This is Ventura's line up. The players he has to play with. Just going by Soxtalk's consensus, expecting anything but losses piling up would be insane.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 25, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) Also, the answer is quite obviously getting rid of Adam Dunn. If they did just that and made no other moves, they'd win 108 games There will always be a punching bag, even if the team wins 100 games. Before he went on an historic role, in 2005 Soxtalk wanted Contreras traded in a package for AJ Burnett.