Dick Allen

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 19, 2013 -> 12:14 PM) But, but, Adam Dunn only hits well when the Sox are losing right? Kinda on that same line of thinking another interesting note was brought up in the comments.... I don't know who said that, but generally the vast majority of players play better in wins. It's sort of why the team wins.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2013 -> 12:10 PM) If you were him, would you be trying to lock up a 6 year, 9 figure deal this offseason or would you try to push your luck to stay healthy the whole way? I would take the money. If he stays healthy, he will be young enough to cash in again.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 18, 2013 -> 08:03 PM) You have to think that Rizzo and Castros regression this season really has to give Theo pause going forward. These two were supposed to be the first cornerstones Rebuilding hardly ever goes smoothly. Even the can't miss usually give you reason to worry. If they want to blame Sveum for that, that would be silly. They may snap back, and the Cubs may change managers, but if that happens and they give the new manager total credit, it would be way off IMO.

33rd 1 run loss. If they could somehow build a decent offense and shore up the defense next year, they can play meaningful games.

It has seemed the pace of the game has been slower this year even with the Sox not providing much offense. There have been 3 hour games were only a few runs have crossed the plate. It could be a factor.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Sep 18, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) I voted for Gary Thorne, tomorrow I will vote for Hawk. Bob Newhart never won an Emmy until this past year. I find that more tragic than Rush not being in the Rock-N-Roll Hall of Fame. Nothing was more tragic than Rush not being int he R & R HOF.

Hawk deserves it. I'll never understand the hate, especially from White Sox fans. He ticks me off sometimes with his umpire ripping and when he still takes some shots at Jerry Manuel, but I love him. It will be a sad day when he's gone if he's replaced by one of these so-called "professional" broadcasters Hawk's haters seem to love. Whether people want to admit it or not, the way they watch and evaluate a game these days is heavily influenced by Hawk's views the past 25 years. If the next guy coming in is a Len Kasper type, the baseball IQ of a typical Sox fan will drop tremendously.

I don't see why Milwaukee would trade Carlos Gomez unless you gave them a ton more than is being mentioned.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 06:59 PM) You aren't going to win with the 2016 version of McCann if the team doesn't find young position players over the next two years. By the time 2016 rolls around what kind of numbers is McCann going to put up anyway? Why don't you tell us.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 04:59 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colle...0,2127216.story Officials reprimanded I just saw the replay. That was about as bad as it gets. I guess there was a chance Wisconsin would have missed the FG, but that game was clearly stolen from them. If I were a Badger fan, player or coach, I probably would have had an anuerism Saturday night.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 03:28 PM) If the White Sox signed McCann for 4 years at $15 million and he put up a .766 OPS over the course of the contract, I'd be upset. I mention Hunter's 2nd half because older players tend to run out of gas sooner because they begin breaking down. 23-25 year olds also do this because their bodies aren't used to the stress of a full season. If Hunter is anything more than a .750 OPS player next year, I will be incredibly surprised, and, personally, I am expecting him to be closer to a .270/.325/.375 player next season. BTW, you keep coming back to Hunter. Why not bring up Adam Dunn? Justin Morneau? Kevin Youkilis? Roberto Alomar? There is no black and white number, but typically, as guys approach their mid 30s, their numbers will typically begin to tail off. Sometimes it can be sudden, sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's not until their late 30s, sometimes it's not until their 40s, but to this day, Father Time is undefeated. If you want to debate the merits of that, then you will be wrong. Robbie Alomar put up a .950 OPS at the age of 32, and it was .700 at 33. Fisk was putting up OPS's in the .820s when he was 40 and 41. He was also one of the greatest baseball players of all time. You want to use him as a baseline comparison to every player who's played the game? You can go ahead, I will stick to logic and reason and generally assume that as players reach their mid 30s, their games will fall off. I mentioned Hunter because the Tigers were 3 games better than the Sox last year and they supposedly improved tremendously with him and Victor Martinez, who is 34. There is no magic number. I understand the calendar catches up, but at a differetn pace for everyone. Of the guys you mentioned, Dunn is the only one without major physical issues. Is Morneau still elite without the concussion? Does Robby Alomar go from one of the best players in the game to extremely mediocre if he doesn't have back issues? Youk looked to me like he could still play if his back was OK. Getting older with more miles may cause these injuries, but again, I am not advocating signing a 35 year old to an 8 year $120 million contract. Obviously it has to make sense, i don't think giving McCann what you gave Dunn doesn't make sense.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 03:34 PM) Then why are you arguing with me, friend? Not about giving Choo all that money. I think you can still make a nice signing of a guy in that age group. Everyone is going to have his warts. When and if Trout becomes a free agent, you can bet even though he will probably only be 26 or 27, he isn't going to sign for 5 years. Unless you draft them and develop them or only have them a couple of seasons, you are probably going to have most elite players umder comtract for his age 32 season and beyond.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 04:57 PM) I have no proof, and do not pretend to know him personally, but as with all players how do we know that Mr. Fisk never used any "enhancements". It's a little before the Canseco stuff, but just because Canseco was one of the first obvious ones, doesn't mean they weren't in use prior to him. We don't. We also don't really know if any of the guys the Sox may sign are using either. It isn't like everyone is clean.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) I'll keep repeating it as long as people keep saying what you just said. His glove isn't elite. It just isn't. He's somewhere around average. Doesn't have a lot of range, turns a good double play, is a good fit next to Alexei because Alexei covers a lot of ground. His range has actually gone down quite a bit if you look at his year over year numbers as well. He has been playing with a bad quad for over a month. I think the Sox will bring him back and he has shown for stretches he can hit. He has been banged up this year. If he can stay healthy, IMO, he will put up good numbers. Can he stay healthy is a good question though.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) I'm not suggesting walking away from every 32 year old at all. I'm suggesting staying away from paying a guy $100m to be good for 2 years and bad for 3. This was about Choo specifically, because of his flaws and likely market demand. I mentioned a few pages back I'd love to add him at the right price, but not at anything that approaches what I think he'll get. I wouldn't give Choo $100 million either.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 03:06 PM) Studies have been done on this and while I can't find the article now, this is actually backwards. Pitchers have a tendency to get injured more often (comparatively speaking), to see their arms break down and lose velocity and break on pitches, and to have more randomized developments (unexpected loss in velocity, failure to develop secondary pitches, failure to throw effective breaking balls with lowered seams, among others). I don't recall the exact numbers, but among 1st round draft picks, it was something like 60-66% of college hitters play in the majors, 50% of college pitchers do, 50% of high school hitters, and 33% of high school pitchers. I read some article that said pitchers who throw 98 in high school and get drafted seem to throw 88 four years later. I do think college pitchers are easier to evaluate than hitters though. One thing that makes hitters harder to evaluate is aluminum bats. Wood vs. aluminum is a different game. You don't have to square it up on an aluminum bat, plus you can get a barrel a lot bigger at a light weight.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) A recent paper that shows large regression beings at age 29. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&a....52164340,d.aWM Yes, but that's on average. There are guys that regress when they are 22. It may be playing Russian Roulette, but signing 31-32 year olds who are in good physical condition, and have been putting up good numbers for several years IMO isn't a bad idea, as long as you aren't going crazy with the years. Obviously, you should look for red flags. If Prince Fielder were a free agent this year, even though he will be 30, I wouldn't sign him to a 5 or 6 year deal at what he would command even if I had unlimited funds. His dad fell off a cliff right around that age, and Prince's body screams breakdown. I wonder how many hits Tony Gwynn would have had if he would have eaten a few less donuts and been able to stay on the field more often. I think guys can play very overweight when they are younger, but after 30, playing 50 lbs or more overweight probably isn't going to work. Most guys don't even become free agents until they are 28 or 29.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) In other words, you need great, great players to win titles. Been the case since, I don't know, forever. Generally, the better the players you have, the more books on your genius you can write. I do think Phil is/was a great coach though. The Bulls were a bad call away from the finals without Michael.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:49 PM) You are telling me that just because he was a productive player until he was 43 and played until he was 45, there is not that big of a different between an .837 OPS and a .766 OPS? Because that's a silly argument. There is absolutely a significant difference and using an example of a guy who most consider to be one of the most durable players of all time is probably not a good comparison to most players in the majors. I thought Hunter and Martinez would struggle. Martinez did in the first half. Hunter has an OBP of .286 in the second half. None of this surprises me. I expect the struggles to continue next year and, while that team is great right now, I expect them to be in trouble in 3-5 years. I seriously would not be surprised to see the standings reversed come 2017. If the Sox sign guys to 1 and 2 year deals this offseason and then deal them at the deadline (assuming they don't compete), I have absolutely no problem with it so long as they aren't blocking prospects. If someone could guarantee you McCann would be your catcher for the next 4 years and put up a .766 OPS, I bet you would think signing him is a good idea. And Hunter's OBP the second half is cherry picking stats. I don't know how you say that's because he was 38. Don't 25 year olds have halfs like that? I could come up with stretches for every player where they aren't so good. Hunter signed as a FA with the Angels as a 32 year old. He had a higher OPS with the Angels than he did with the Twins.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) Detroit was already a playoff team, and then they added a 38 year old on a short term, low risk contract. It may not be a general rule that players fall apart at 32, but absolutely IS a general rule that they get worse, sometimes gradually and sometimes suddenly. Those moves made sense for Detroit, who was just in the World Series, not for us and our 100ish loss season. I am not talking about this year, and I don't endorse signing someone for 7 years who is 32 years old. But walking away from every 32 year old is a mistake. There are plenty of 32 year olds who can have a small regression but still be better than what the White Sox can put on the field right now. I think they are going after Abreu and McCann myself. Ideally, they get both, but I'm thinking they would be happy with at least one. I also think they try to add a couple more guys to very short term make good contracts, and depending on how well that goes, trade from their pitching strength to get someone who can hit. They have to bolster the offense, and while they may not be able to totally do so in 1 offseason, I think they will make enough moves to at least keep it interesting. We probably have to hope for Tank and Garcia and Beckham to blossom next year to be elite, but there could be enough to win even if they don't. Look at Cleveland. Reynolds was so bad he was DFA'd. Swisher and Bourne haven't exactly been spectacular, and Asdrubal has been not so good himself, yet they have a shot. As bad as the Sox have been, they were in a lot of close games where any kind of offense gets them wins. These losses at the end count, but they aren't playing with a full deck because of being out of the race so early.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 02:20 PM) He was a Hall of Fame catcher who showed great longevity. Let's look at some numbers though, right? In Boston - .284/.356/.481/.837 In Chicago - .257/.329/.438/.766 You see our point Not that huge of a difference considering he played until he was 45, and a catcher. In fact, his age 33 season was one of his worst as a White Sox. I think, while some players fall apart at 32, considering it a general rule, is way off, especially if speed isn't a major component of his effectiveness. Plenty of players are productive until they are 35 or 36 or even 38. People here worried about Detroit being the greatest team ever because they signed a 38 year old and had a 34 year old coming back from injury.

Carlton Fisk came to the White Sox as a 33 year old, often injured, catcher. Now, a lot of people here wouldn't have touched him. With as much as Stone has been mentioning McCann, you would have to feel the Sox will at least inquire.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 01:12 PM) He might be in "injured" territory right now. Hopefully whatever was bugging him all preseason heals soon. I hope that's it. I don't know if he's being doubled all the time or not, but he was in the past and you still knew he was in the game, as he did tons of damage. Through 2 games, the average undrafted free agent DE could have made as much impact as Julius. The Bears pass rush has been pretty non existent so far.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 09:35 PM) Seahawks defense is very impressive. "Anyone who thinks Seattle has a good football team needs to study more"- Hub Arkush 9/5/13

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 08:00 PM) Considering that the Twins and White Sox combined have 5 more wins than the Mariners and Astros, clearly you should be embarrassed by that post. But then, you're too busy celebrating white sox losses to actually know a thing about baseball. Marty claiming personal attack in 5,4,3,2......... His entire routine just repeats itself over and over. If you don't know the score of the game or how the Sox are doing, go to Soxtalk. If Marty is posting, the Sox are losing. He is in his glory.