Dick Allen

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Oct 9, 2013 -> 09:06 AM) Priced determined by MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. Also, not all teams have 50,000 seats like la or Atlanta. Those teams charge less due to larger capacities. Pittsburgh had $20 standing room tix for the wild card and NLDS games. WS ticket prices are determined by MLB, not Divison Series prices. Why in the world would Bud demand Indians fans pay an average of over $400 per game?

Loney in 2012 was worse offensively than Konerko in 2013. The team that pays Loney based on 2013, a .778 OPS he hasn't had since 2007, is going to be about as happy about it as Rick Hahn is he signed Keppinger.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) If the Sox had Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez circa 2001 along with Avisail Garcia and a relatively deep bench (so they're rotating the DH), who are you going to play in CF? This is the scenario we are talking about. You can look up in this thread and see where I said "I'd rather he play RF." Maggs actually played CF as a youngster about as much as Garcia did. With CLee and Maggs on the corners, obviously Garcia would be in CF but it wouldn't be ideal and it wouldn't be for long. I will say he probably is a better CF than Carl Everett in 2003 and Ken Griffey Jr. in 2008. If the Sox are so stacked with offense in 2014 where Garcia is forced to play CF, I will think that is great, but again, as with the original post, he would be playing out of position.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) Seriously? This would surprise me a lot. Can you actually add numbers to quantify this? Let me ask you since you seem to pin everything on coaching, if the problem Garcia is having is taking crazy routes to balls, how do you coach him to make him better? If an infielder is booting balls or throwing wildly to first base, practice and perhaps some sort of mechanical change can correct that. If a guy takes crazy routes to batted balls, you can keep hitting him batted balls, but those routes are instinctive. There are major league infielders that have a tough time with pop ups. If he just started playing the OF, it would be one thing, but he has been out there for years. Unless he has a vision problem, you can hope the weird routes become a little more direct, but chances are, it will always be an issue.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) Joe Crede was a below replacement level 3B defensively in nearly the same amount of games play when he first joined the White Sox. SHOULD HAVE MOVED HIM TO 1B. I think there is a huge difference between an infielder and outfielder. If Garcia's problem was his throws were really inaccurate or he kicked base hits right at him, that could improve significantly. You cannot improve instinct, at least you can't a whole lot. Crede had great instincts, Garcia takes a lot of curious routes to balls hit his direction. I don't think that is going to get a heck of a lot better.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 01:55 PM) Why does he need to be judged on whether or not he'll be a gold glove CF? If he's "adequate" or "solid" he could never come close to winning a gold glove but if he's also putting up offensive numbers that remind us of Ordonez we'd be talking about one of the most valuable players in the league if he was in CF. He would be valuable in CF but not in RF? As I said, the only reason Garcia would play CF is team need, not because that is his best position. I think the Sox would be lucky and happy if he graded out to average in CF. The guy is a RF, just like the original poster posted.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) You're right in some sense. We are talking about players who are competent. You said this yourself about Garcia in CF. Could you tell right away that Ventura was going to make it? How about Chris Snopek? Or Greg Norton? I never said Garcia was competent in CF. People see he can run and throw, and hope or assume he can play CF because of that. The fact is, if he does play CF for the White Sox, odds are totally stacked against it being a long term thing. First off, while he has nice tools, he isn't great defensively now, and he is more than likely going to get bigger, and there aren't many 250 pound long term CF in the history of the sport. I don't think it will require any more to see that Garcia isn't going to be a Gold Glove CF, just like we knew right away that Viciedo wasn't going to be a Gold Glove LF. If the Sox put Garcia in CF, it will be because of a team need, not because he is a long term solution in CF.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 01:07 PM) This is completely nonsensical, and you know it. You are trying to blend scouting with results, two different things. 31 AB's will not tell you what you need to know about a hitter. How many major league ABs will it require to tell if Jared Mitchell can hit in the big leagues? I'm guessing less than 31. Most players don't get an opportunity to get 31 AB at the major league level. I bet of the 1000s who did not, there probably were a handful that would have turned into productive players. There are some guys you can tell right away aren't going to make it.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 09:24 AM) On bolded: no. On the rest: I know it is an extreme exception, but... Kirby Puckett says hello. Just saying, body type tells you SOMETHING, but it is not a definite thing. What it comes down to is, you need to see him play there to really get a read. Metrics are useless at his amount of play. When Kirby Puckett came into the league, he was a good CF. Garcia is not. Kirby also basically moved to RF when he was 33. Chances are, if Garcia does play CF, he won't be a plus defensively, and he won't be there for long. If you are 240 as a 22 year old, you probably will be 250-260 as a 30 year old. There aren't many 250 lb. CFs. As for my 31 AB comment, it is true. Most professional players require 0 major league ABs to determine they aren't going to be very good.

This sealed bid thing, if true, is puzzling to me. Unless they only think one team is going to offer a boatload of money, why not open him up for auction?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 09:54 AM) Are you sure you aren't related to Puig? Also, because Juan Uribe hit the home run, we should probably give Juan Uribe the credit for hitting the home run. We shouldn't say "if Yasiel Puig doesn't hit a double, Juan Uribe doesn't hit a home run, thus it's because of Yasiel Puig that Juan Uribe hit the home run." When the Sox picked up Manny and a couple of guys homered with Manny on deck, a few people on here gave no steroid Manny all of the credit. BTW, it's nice to see the Uribe love. When he was a White Sox, he was a punching bag around here.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 8, 2013 -> 08:35 AM) He's played 207.2 innings out there. That's a sample size of 23 games. Fangraphs suggests that it takes 3 years worth of data for fielding metrics to become statistically significant, which is roughly the equivalent of 450 games. Currently, we have 5.1% of the suggested amount of relevant information. To compare this to something more tangible, this is like watching 31 at bats of a minor league hitter and declaring "HE CAN'T HIT." (of course, knowing this group, that sounds about right) There are plenty of players 31 ABs can determine what they are. Garcia could probably get by in CF, but chances are with his body type, it's not a postion you will see him playing or really want to see him playing several years from now.

Rangers 6/$42 million

They aren't going after Granderson if he is $15 million a year. If he's significantly cheaper it makes sense. I actually know one of Curtis" best friends from UIC. I know he would love to play for the White Sox.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 5, 2013 -> 12:37 AM) When I was reading this article, I thought about Jerry Manuel right away, and how we needed the opposite of Manuel at that time...and picked Ozzie. But it also reminded me of a lot of the same things that have been said about Ventura as well. Keep in mind, the Reds made the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years. The White Sox have only made the playoffs 4 times in the past 20 years. Besides the fact that this year's team SEEMED to be lacking in talent, competitiveness/comeback-ability and cohesiveness (well, you can say that about any team that loses nearly 100 games), what are the arguments for retaining Ventura, and by that, I mean "longer term," for at least the next 2-3 seasons? Do you worry that he's too passive? All those accusations about being not committed enough/uncertain...do you still feel 100% confident he's the right man for the rebuilding/retooling job ahead? http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2013100...040071?gcheck=1 The next man the Reds hire won’t be much like Dusty. He won’t list Jimi Hendrix’ All Along The Watchtower as his favorite song. And he will come with an edge that Baker never had, nor wanted to have. Of all the managers and coaches I’ve covered here since 1988, none wanted to avoid conflict as much as Baker. It’s too bad that conflict comes with the job. Baker’s inability to motivate his players down the stretch partly owed to that trait. He wanted to be a friend and mentor, not a leader. That played well when Scott Rolen was here. It failed this year. Somebody needed to kick some aspirations in the home clubhouse. It never happened. Ballplayers want to be led. Most of us do. We want to be inspired, pushed, challenged, driven. Choose your descriptive. Dusty’s style might have allowed his players to play free and easy. It also encouraged a certain complacency. No one who witnessed this team’s last week of games could come away thinking it needed to win. Wanted to win? Of course. Needed it? Not really. Baker lost points with ownership when he allowed Brandon Phillips to interrupt his daily pre-game media briefing, to berate an Enquirer reporter. He lost points by not saying to Joey Votto, “Hey, man, this is a team game. Runs help us win, not getting on base.’’ He lost points by not always being a team player himself. Baker is nothing if not stubborn. Suggestions made by those in charge were rarely heeded, be it lineup issues or the role of Aroldis Chapman. Mostly, Baker is out because his personality stopped working with the players he managed. That happens a lot in baseball. It’s a reason even good managers get fired, usually more than once. Baker is a good manager. First off, Dusty has been managing how many years? This is the first time I have ever seen that written as a problem, if it was, why would the Reds not only hire him, but give him an extension? Where has the same things been said about Ventura other than by people on message boards who come to that conclusion by the 2 or 3 shots of him shown in the dugout per game? I think this move was all about money. I think Reds ownership is thinking that point A to point B crap Krause used when he fired Collins. The article I read about cost of playoff tickets these days seems to me is going to put a lot of pressure on managers to avoid quick playoff departures. From what I read, a couple of these team could basically cover their entire payroll with a run to the WS just on playoff ticket sales alone.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 4, 2013 -> 04:51 PM) Yup. The Sox had the top ranked farm system in baseball when Kenny ran it. I like having him involved in this. It was ranked number one but in reality, it wasn't number one. But the ranking is actually one huge reason he became the GM, and not Dan Evans. Schueler actually recommended Evans. KW wasn't personally responsible for the development and acquisition of all of those players. Perhaps he is a good scout, maybe he is not. Every good scout misses, every good scout has some hits.It doesn't discourage me that he is personally taking a look at Abreu. If anything, Sox fans should be excited KW is involved. It means they are seriously interested.

Ron Darling sounds a lot like Farmio.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Oct 4, 2013 -> 12:39 PM) The problem with this "process" is that ARod is the only one with the crazy money needed to hire a legal dream team and potentially gum up the works enough to remain on the playing field and collect his money. The crazy money was made LARGELY THROUGH CHEATING. Therefore, Bud needs to go KMLandis rogue and ban him for life, outright, with no process or appeal. Period. Done. He's retiring in 14 months - he can take the heat. He DOES have these dictatorial powers as commissioner from what I understand. Ryan Braun could easily afford ARod's legal bills. So could the majority of major leaguers. That's a non issue. And while Bud may be able to take the heat, banning ARod without appeal is impossible as well, as ARod is part of a union with a collectively bargained contract. ARod might be a jerk, he may have been cheating for years, but it does seem his punishment is far more severe than everyone else's. As the old saying goes, listen to ARod's take, listen to MLB's take, the truth is somewhere in the middle. There, more likely than not, is some embarrassment on both sides if the entire truth ever gets out.

Mackowiak actually hit pretty well for the White Sox, especially a bench player. Defensively he was awful.

Cleveland losing was big in another way. They were charging the most for Division Series tickets. The average price for a Indians Division series ticket was going to be $461. Seems insane, but 43k at the game would have net them $20 million in just ticket sales per game.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 05:22 PM) Stone is the pompous ass? If Hawk was sitting in one room and Stone the other, if you as Joe White Sox fan walked up to both of them separately, there is a 99.9% chance you will have a more pleasant friendly conversation with Hawk.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:20 PM) Marty, if it turns out to be as bad as you believe, then they will go on an extended rebuilding period and Sale will be traded along with many others. If it's not as bad as you believe, the team spends some money in the next couple offseasons and they are competitive and perhaps even win a Wild Card or Division championship, then everything was worth it and they are still in a position to compete in 2016. You are adament about not spending on guys like McCann and Ellsbury and Granderson, but really those kinds of deals can turn out great for the team - Jermaine Dye was signed at the age of 31 and had 5 pretty great years for the Sox, Thome was brought in at 35 and had 4 good years for the Sox too, so why can't the Sox sign two guys who will turn 30 next year and expect them to be productive for an extended period of time? And if they fail, if in Marty's world, his idea makes sense, why can't they eat half their contracts and trade them for prospects? In a world where BJ Upton has value at $30 million, I can't imagine any of those three having less at half of what they would cost. Isn't trading for Upton or Reyes and then trading them basically a sign and trade? So what is the difference between actually signing the free agent vs. trading for him and eating money to move him along? Bernstein's plan works for the NBA but not baseball. Marty tries to make it work for baseball, but it adds a step and makes no sense. If the Sox have money to burn and need prospects, isn't signing free agents then eating money and trading them directly the answer?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:02 PM) How many free agents are there where you are going to be able to buy their 24-29 years for $30M? Any prospect worth paying another team $30 million to acquire is probably going to cost a decent amount during his arb years. You are eliminating all the cheap years. Why do I have the feeling if the majority of posters thought the Marty/Bernstein idea was a good one, you would say it was dumb?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 01:02 PM) So you are taking a chance either way. I'd rather they took a chance using money in 2014 & 2015 on a player who might be around to contribute in 2016 and beyond then spend money in 2014 and 2015 on a player who will contribute those years, but isn't likely to contribute much after that. Just personal preference I guess. Why can't the Sox sign guys more likely to perform and then trade them for prospects? Like what they did with Peavy? Sign a guy, if you have a shot, great, if not, then you can move him along. The notion of sending a team or multiple teams $30 million each for a meddling prospect is insane.

Mat Gamel is available for nothing. He was once the Brewers top prospect and probably could have been had for Alexei and $33 million. Now you can have him for the price of a minor league contract. Get him signed Mr. Hahn.