Dick Allen

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 26, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) Going for it how? The current roster is not Championship Worthy. The offense and bullpen depth are not good. So either you have to have money for free agents or money to take on from trades (which we don't) or have prospects to bring up to trade for ML-ready talent (which we don't). We are the epitome of stuck between a rock and a hard place. The rotation no doubt is Championship worthy, ditto for the backend of the bullpen (Reed-Crain), but everything else brings the team down. They are looking to add, not subtract. Marty would love the Sox to trade Peavy and Rios, and acquired a few more Simon Castros. He also suggested waiving Ramirez and letting Keppinger play SS. If they can acquire another bat, Paulie and Dunn hit well, Beckham plays decently, they have a chance. Every team has holes. This philosophy of trading all your good players for prospects is quite puzzling. Many here say Frank Thomas is the reason they became a Sox fan. Using this sam philosophy, shouldn't the Sox have traded Frank after the 1994 season? He did get a ring with the Sox, but it was not a very productive season and didn't play in the playoffs. I also believe he was hitless in the 2000 playoffs.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 26, 2013 -> 09:43 AM) Sox fans are whiners so what. How does that prevent the Sox from winning? It cuts down on revenue. Most other teams would be doing a lot more business than the White Sox with the same track record in the same sized market. White sox fans find something wrong with everything, and then try to come across as a more sophisticated fan. It is a pretty simple thing. Go to a game and have fun. When everyone became a fan, the Sox didn't have a history of going to the playoffs every year and winning multiple championships. Now, all these criteria have to be met to get them to a game, and when those are met, they come up with more. People on this board are actually upset they are trying to win. What they need to do is somehow attract new people, and let the whiners die off. You aren't going to make them happy anyway.

If you have all these pieces of a championship rotation , besides setting yourself up for years of b****ing, what is the purpose of selling all of your other parts? If you have these pieces, going for it makes even more sense.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 26, 2013 -> 09:20 AM) How does a team go about getting a new fan base? This is right up there with you being for changes that improve the team. You can't, which is why Boyer has an impossible job. The current fanbase whines about everything. It used to be everyone wanted to be the Rays around here. The manager is a genius, they have young talent out of their farm system. Of course winning never entered the equation. Now everyone wants to be like the Cardinals. Could you imagine how you would have minimalized a WS trophy if the Sox had won one winning 83 games? I am always up for changes that improve the Sox chances to win. Your ideas do nothing of the sort. They only improve your opportunity to complain, which is great for you, but not so great for people who would rather be happy the Sox one than have them lose so they can say get rid of so and so he won't be on the next White Sox team that makes the playoffs anyway.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 25, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) Those improved, young, exciting Royals are currently in 4th place behind the s***ty, old, boring White Sox. Huh, go figure. They need a total rebuild. They should hire Marty to consult.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 23, 2013 -> 11:10 PM) White Sox culture. If we're making the argument that the team is still in contention and not aiming towards 2014, then 3 Daniel Hudson-esque starts in a row and he'll be relegated to the bullpen or Barry Zito status by a loud minority of fans, typically the ones that call into Rongey's post-game show. You call into Rongey's post game show?

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 24, 2013 -> 07:38 AM) He had a surgery to help lose weight. I'm not sure of the exact amount but he looks much better and is much healthier at 60 than he was in his 40's. His BIF (Butt in front) has dissappeared. My buddy used to do an impression of Herm running on to the field, it cracked me up every time.

Sending Jones down isn't going to help the team. They have already dipped into the Knights roster and we saw Heath, which I'm sure no one wants to see pitch in a meaningful game anytime soon, and Omogrosso, the guy whose presence on the mound was the reason for this thread. If they are the ones getting called up, the other guys are more than likely, worse. Nate struggled a little last year and turned it on. He still has the same ability, but his command is off, which has always been his issue. If he gets it together, which he showed he can last year, he's really good. Everyone fights through slumps. If Nate was nails everytime, his bank account would be a lot larger than it is right now. For some guys who want to see the Sox totally rebuild, it's amazing the lack of patience these posters have.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 23, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) Josh Phegley is batting .333/.400/.651 with 10 home runs and 28 RBI through 34 games at Triple-A Charlotte. Phegley is having a breakout year offensively and currently leads the International League with a .651 slugging-percentage. The White Sox would ideally wait until mid-June to promote Phegley to avoid Super 2 status, but they might not be able to resist calling him up for much longer with Tyler Flowers and Hector Gimenez struggling. per rotoworld. By the time they decide to call him up, he will have cooled down. The same thing happened with Viciedo a couple of years ago. Call him up while he's hot.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 23, 2013 -> 12:23 PM) What are you talking about? Nate was a pretty good pitcher in the minors from 2009 to 2011. Then he was pretty awesome for us last year. Just because he took a little longer to figure things out doesn't mean he never showed anything. He was drafted as a project. No one should have expected him to reach the majors before age 25/26. Not sure what your angle is here with the age factor. Marty just throws crap out there. Notice he goes days without posting when the Sox win. Matt Thornton was nothing until he came to the Sox. He was 29. Now he's the all time appearance leader in team history.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 23, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) I think rest is a huge part of the reason his defense has disappointed us. He makes these mistakes because he's winded. A backup is never winded. He talked about this on the radio in the preseason, that he was going to have a hard time with conditioning since it had been a while since he caught full time. That's what AJ gave you that I always felt was underappreciated around here. He kept the back up in the dugout. If Flowers is winded right now, that's on him, and it's not because he was a back up. If he wants to use that as an excuse, it's proof he shouldn't be anything more than a back up. You would think if you were going to get your big chance, you would be in the best shape of your life, ready for anything. If he is "winded" now, it is only going to get worse. If that's an excuse, he obviously can't hack it.

They should have learned from Randy Johnson, power pitchers that don't do anything until they are 26, aren't going to be successful very long. Oh wait..............

I think Flowers defense was a bit overrrated because of who he caught. He was Peavy's personal catcher. He's not going to get a ton of 57 footers to block. Peavy has a great move, so he's going to get a chance with every baserunner. If he were Santiago's personal catcher last year instead of Peavy's, the huge upgrade over AJ defensively that was talked about, would probably have never been talked about. Offensively, Flowers looks like he's going to be very streaky. I really doubts he develops into something too much better than he is now. Last night, he swings at balls in the dirt and takes pitches right down central for strikes. Gimenez did have a huge game last week, but he's probably not long for major league baseball.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 23, 2013 -> 09:11 AM) One of the biggest reasons I hate seeing KW hate is way too much of the farm system issues are put on the GM position (irrespective of who is sitting in the chair) and not so much on ownership. We, as an organization, stuck to our guns re: bonuses to unproven draftpicks/international signees under the last CBA and the fallout from that is ENORMOUS. Just think, if we go overslot for a player in 2003 that we took a bust over, and he turns out, then even though he's probably gone from the 2013 squad, we've likely traded him for pieces that have helped us or at least got a draft pick out of it - or if neither, having said player allowed us to fill a hole without trading further pieces from the farm and/or kept us from spending in free agency on an unnecessary player. The fallout from the old CBA, and the change over to our new system, is going to take several years. The Wilder event - same thing - that's still not over, we're still reeling from that s***, because prospects take several years to pan out usually and when they do they often create their own individual acquisition trees, where player X is traded for Y & Z, Z is released but Y goes as part of a deal for A & B, etc. We've taken some steps definitely but the biggest positive is seeing us spend like a Major League organization, which is something we haven't done in the past and really never did much of under the old CBA. Also there is the anti-Buddy Bell sentiment developing here. It's hard to know how much input he really has as far as the direction an organization takes with a player but, while I am not advocating running this thing backwards like the Pirates organization, we need to be more disciplined I think in the way we offer instruction and we also need to demand core peripheral results sooner out of our minor league players. We also shouldn't be hesitant to look at more trades involving our prospects for other teams' prospects. Every now and then we get the rare Aaron Cunningham-for-Danny Richar deals where 2 teams swap unproven players who have some upside, but I don't think we make enough of those types of deals. I think we need to hire as many good people as we can, and have as many people on the ground as we can, and we need a couple relatively useless bean-counters in here to compile all that information objectively and pass it on without adding a bunch of "Have mercy dadgummit this kid can play!" subjective interference that prevents a good move from happening or worse, turns a good move or a non-move into a bad move. Dave Wilder was fired 5 years ago. If the White Sox are still reeling from that, how is it people think they can totally rebuild their team in 2 or 3 years?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 23, 2013 -> 08:44 AM) And what does that tell you? That Alex Rios, while the best player on the team after Sale, doesn't have a huge following because of lingering doubts and anger dating back to the 2009 and 2011 seasons. That Gordon Beckham never became the franchise cornerstone he was touted to be when he was drafted. That Jake Peavy, while he has his fans and a big name and salary, was injured so often and has never been the Cy Young winning pitcher we remember from SD, so there's always a lingering sense of disappointment, even though he's worked his butt off to get back to where he is... Dunn...we know that story. Danks...same thing. Nobody wants to see him end up like a noose around the neck of the Sox payroll, but ALMOST everyone is concerned whether he can return to being the same pitcher he was before the surgery. And that AJ/Buerhle are gone and nobody has emerged to replace them as fan favorites. For now, the only position player with the POTENTIAL to do that and be around five years from now is Viciedo. As we keep saying, this team is lacking both an identity and a younger superstar. Sale is close, but you need a position player to build a franchise around because White Sox fans are so used to offensive fireworks at their home stadium...Carlos Quentin was the closest, but he was not the kind of player who was easy to love, either. You respected and feared him if you were the opponent...but he was always a bit too remote or distant for fans to embrace 100% except for 2008 when he was so good you couldn't help but marvel for 5 months. IMO, the problem is this team needs a new fanbase. White Sox fans are probably the biggest whiners in baseball. They just took 2 out of 3 against Boston who had 3 starters who were 15-1 on the season, and the White Soxhad to scratch their ace in the finale. Yet, people are complaining. There are many people on this board who whine when the Sox lose, but in their minds the solution is to lose games. So they aren't happy losing, but want to lose even more. This is not the NBA. One or 2 drafts don't change you overnight.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ May 23, 2013 -> 08:34 AM) Omogrosso has been **** all year. How can you possibly say that it's not poor managing to run him out there back to back innings in a one run game after he BARELY got out of the first one? I'm sorry but IMO that is terrible no matter how you look at it. Let Lindstrom or Jones work with the bases empty. Jones has been bad most of the year. Lindstrom has been bad recently. Veal has been horrible. Everyone complains when Thornton comes in. Crain and Reed weren't coming in there. There weren't many options, and what did Jones do last night that would make anyone think he would have been fine had he come in with the bases empty? This is just complaining to complain. It didn't matter. The Sox scored 2 runs.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 23, 2013 -> 08:26 AM) The problem is NOBODY is advocating dumping an entire product line.New Coke would be the closest example, as it actually replaced the former. The only problem is that lasted about six months before they brought back the original. This isn't letting Robin Ventura go in the prime of his career, or the White Flag trade. Do you honestly think if Paul Konerko played out the season as a .220 hitter with 15 homers and 55 RBI's that ANY fans would not renew their season tickets next year because he wasn't coming back again? Nobody is clamoring for a return of Mark Buehrle or AJ Pierzynski. They just want a clear direction and plan they can believe in and get behind. In the end, the core product is Chris Sale...he has to be successful for the franchise to win anything in the next five years. Around that, you trim away the products that aren't getting a successful ROI (think Hostess going bankrupt and selling off individual brands)...and keep the best remaining ones (Viciedo, Quintana, Santiago) to build around. You leverage other assets (Ramirez/Peavy/Crain) to clear payroll space and bring young blood in to revitalize and re-energize. It's not like the White Sox would be closing their stadium for 3-5 years and disappearing from the face of the earth. The final member of the last product line (Konerko, following AJ and Buehrle) is becoming obsolete and needs to be replaced. While on this subject, despite his .215 average, at USCF, the guy who gets the biggest ovations and it's not even close, is Konerko.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ May 23, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) I understand that, but there is no reason for Omogrosso to be out there for back to back innings in a 1 run game with an off day following. That is poor managing no matter how you look at it. No it's not. The alternative was Jones and/or Veal. They were in the game last night and didn't exactly dazzle. Plus, Jones had been warming up on and off since the 4th inning. They probably got to the point where theye wanted to avoid using him last night.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ May 23, 2013 -> 07:51 AM) I know we won 2 out of 3 against the Red Sox, but yesterdays managing from RV had me downright furious. He basically gave Boston a free win. Hector goes out & puts up one gutsy performance on 3 days rest & keeps us in the ball game against Bucholz at 2-1. Thennnnnnnnn the 7th inning comes along. When I saw Omogrosso on the mound I immediately thought oh no, but then he escaped the 7th after allowing 2 hits & what I thought was a for sure hit back up the middle off the bat of Gomes. Bats stay cold against Bucholz in the bottom half. So after dodging a bullet in the top half of the 7th he trots OMOGROSSO BACK OUT THERE FOR THE 8th??? Thought for sure I was seeing things. He promptly goes on to load the bases up before RV goes & gets him, & then he brings in Jones in a bases loaded situation when the guy has struggled to find the zone consistently all year??? YIKES...He goes on to fall behind in the count to just about every single batter & they end up putting 2 more on the board. Never have been more upset with RVs decision making. He managed the bullpen like we were down by about 5 runs. You simply don't use Omogrosso in a one run game when your team is gaining momentum & looking to sweep a team...& you for damn sure don't use him for TWO innings...Heck trot Jones out there for the 7th & let him work with the bases empty, then trot Crain out there for the 8th.....but OMOGROSSO?.....FOR TWO INNINGS??.....& WITH AN OFF DAY FOLLOWING SO EVERYONE SHOULD BE AVAILABLE IN THAT PEN?? Just couldn't believe it. /rant Is he supposed to use the same 2 or 3 guys every game? You can't manage every game like it's game 7 of the WS. Crain appeared the last 2 games. Do you want him to get hurt and miss the next 120? The Sox came up with 2 runs. They were destined to lose no matter what BO or NJ did. The Sox bullpen has been getting a workout lately. Sometimes you have to hope the last guys in there can get the job done. You can't wear everyone out by the beginning of June.

Santiago's last 28 innings, he has given up 28 hits 14 runs 9 walks 26 strikeouts 5 homers and has hit 4 guys. It is a small sample size and he may prove to be the multiple Cy Young award winner some here seem to project, but if Axelrod had the same line, it would be held against him. I am one who always thinks Axelrod is going to get smoked, but for now he is doing the job. I don't know how anyone could complain if he is the one they select. Santiago would only have himself to blame.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 20, 2013 -> 08:36 PM) Scariest part is he doesn't seem to have much gap power. He's slugging .267 this year. He's young. He can get stronger. If he's the prospect the Sox thought he was, if he wants it bad enough to put in the work to get better and stronger, he still has plenty of time to be pretty good.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 20, 2013 -> 09:05 PM) Sanchez never made any sense to me. I don't think they would have brought him in had Greene already been acquired.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 20, 2013 -> 09:02 PM) Greene has a fairly negative UZR at every position that he's played more than 25 innings. Doesn't pass the eye test either. He has been pretty bad at 2nd. I just don't know what Sanchez really brings to the table. Greene can hit lefties.

Gomes got fat.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 20, 2013 -> 08:56 PM) Could be a factor in the decision to keep Greene or Sanchez as the backup infielder. Sanchez is a little better than Greene as a SS, but Greene is no stranger to that position, and everything I have read makes him average there, so for a back up who can hit lefties, Greene would be my choice.