Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2013 -> 08:40 AM) Trading 1 1/2 seasons for 6 seasons is never a good idea, unless you make the playoffs. It's what the Royals will discover soon enough with the Wil Myers trade. FWIW, Daniel Hudson is expected back in late June/early July. TJ is not a death warrant. Lots of pitchers are actually better when they come back...at least in the 2nd year. I guarantee having Sale-Peavy-Danks-Quintana-Axelrod-Santiago-Hudson would have given this team the needed flexibility to make a trade to improve the catching spot or bullpen. And yeah, you could argue that AJ Pierzynski wasn't a wise re-sign because he got hurt too, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have had a back-up plan in place at the very least. So you blast a guy for signing a guy who gets hurt, and blast him for trading 2 guys that got hurt. Danks is back. Hudson, not yet. You are being Mitt Romney again. You are using Danks, a signing you blasted as a reason they can get a catcher if they had Hudson, a guy who isn't even pitching yet, and probably won't be anywhere near full tilt this season. The problem with being on both sides in order to look like you have all the answers is that half your answers are wrong no matter what the circumstance.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 27, 2013 -> 08:28 AM) If you're not willing to change your position, then you're dead. The White Sox were ready to sell off in 2007 and 2010 (in late May) and then changed their minds. Are they better off now as a franchise because of making the playoffs in 2008 and coming close in 2010 and 2012? Hard to say. But I wouldn't want a GM who was going to force Tyler Flowers down our throats the entire season...one who wouldn't at least look into improving the bullpen...or be completely unwilling to revise their strategy as the season unfolded. KW made a lot of emotional decisions himself. He got stiffed on acquiring Adam Dunn by Rizzo, surrendering Daniel Hudson to the DBacks after a grand total of 3 starts (only one which could be defined as "bad") in the heart of a pennant race...then ultimately gave Jackson up for nothing in order to get Teahen off the books and erase a bad personnel decision which should never have been made in the first place. He gave Sergio Santos an extension, then turned around and flipped him weeks later...then signed John Danks to a long-term extension. If Toronto was willing to take on that contract, they too would have been willing to give it to Sergio, so how could that possibly have been part of the plan from the very beginning? Why wasn't he shopped around to all the teams in baseball, who could have made an agreement (had they wanted) with the Sox that negotiating an extension would be part of the deal, had they so desired (like our Freddy Garcia move in 2004). At that point, he still had four more years before free agency. He got so frustrated with our minor league system that he forced Nick Swisher into CF and lead-off (two places he didn't belong), then gave Swisher up for absolutely nothing, costing us one of the best young lefty prospects in the game. If there was EVER a long-term plan that wasn't more a combination of Mississippi River boat gambling and hoping and praying a bunch of talented players who came from different systems could be miraculously thrown together into a cohesive whole...I'd like to know what it was. Our scouting of undervalued players from other organizations, pitching expertise/Cooper and run of anomalous good health (Herm Schneider) has always been offset by changeable, inconsistent decision-making in the front office. And there are some players I've never once advocated trading: Sale, Viciedo, Quintana and Santiago, to name 4. You mention 2 names often, I haven't kept up with them, but how have Hudson and Santos been the last couple of seasons? How would keeping them around hve improved the chances for last year and this?

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 26, 2013 -> 07:09 PM) Under what circumstance do you think it is okay to have Keppinger as your starting SS? Marty Is one of those guys that loves to point out failure. Keppinger at SS is a dream scenerio for him.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 26, 2013 -> 06:18 PM) By improving the offense for the return you get for Peavy and Rios. And don't forget your other genius idea, waive Ramirez and put Keppinger at SS.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 26, 2013 -> 05:15 PM) Chris Sale ERA when moved to the pen: 2.81 Hector Santiagos ERA when moved to pen: 2.81 Don't put up a post like this and call anyone clueless.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 26, 2013 -> 05:11 PM) Oh god, we now have actually resorted to using team W/L when talking about who should be a starter. Come on Soxtalk, you are better than that! You were the one saying the team was clueless. They won today. The other problem is Santiago has gone over 100 innings once in his career. You might as well ride Axelrod while he is doing OK then let Santiago take his place when things go south.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 26, 2013 -> 04:58 PM) Not only that Ax has more starts than any WS pitcher since Peavy and Sale have been scratched once each. He's been the glue. 5-5 in Axelrod's starts 7-2 in Sale's 6-3 in Peavy's 0-5 in Floyd's 4-5 in Quintana's 1-0 in Danks' 1-4 in Santiago's

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 26, 2013 -> 04:52 PM) This is all about Hector being a lefty. He's better in every role compared to Dylan but since we need another left handed reliever in the bullpen he gets the demotion. Ther might be something to that. The Sox always have preferred harder throwers out of the bullpen, and really Axelrod has been fine as a 5th starter. If he starts getting hit around, Santiago will get his shot to try to make it to the 5th inning before he hits 100 pitches again.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 26, 2013 -> 04:50 PM) It is really key that we have the best long reliever in the game! Haha. He is a second lefty. Thornton can't pitch every game.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 26, 2013 -> 04:46 PM) It's as simple as this... Axelrod has been in the rotation all season, and he hasn't pitched himself out of the role--and is probably a better pitcher as a starter. Danks is off the DL, and makes 14.25 mil. He's got to start. Santiago will probably be in the rotation in 2014 or later this season, but they need a second lefty in the pen right now. And he can still be very valuable coming out of the pen. So until Axelrod starts having back-to-back bad starts, there's no reason to beef right now. This is correct. I personally can't believe Axelrod is getting major league hitters out, but he is doing his job. The Sox need bullpen help. Santiago can handle that, and has shown he doesn't need long to get back to throwing 110 pitches a game.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 26, 2013 -> 04:24 PM) Yes. They happened to have a nice May. Which coincides with Santiago becoming a srarter. No surprise there. Yes. The 1-4 record in his starts clearly indicates he being in the rotation is and will be the reason for any White Sox success this year.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 26, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) Going for it how? The current roster is not Championship Worthy. The offense and bullpen depth are not good. So either you have to have money for free agents or money to take on from trades (which we don't) or have prospects to bring up to trade for ML-ready talent (which we don't). We are the epitome of stuck between a rock and a hard place. The rotation no doubt is Championship worthy, ditto for the backend of the bullpen (Reed-Crain), but everything else brings the team down. They are looking to add, not subtract. Marty would love the Sox to trade Peavy and Rios, and acquired a few more Simon Castros. He also suggested waiving Ramirez and letting Keppinger play SS. If they can acquire another bat, Paulie and Dunn hit well, Beckham plays decently, they have a chance. Every team has holes. This philosophy of trading all your good players for prospects is quite puzzling. Many here say Frank Thomas is the reason they became a Sox fan. Using this sam philosophy, shouldn't the Sox have traded Frank after the 1994 season? He did get a ring with the Sox, but it was not a very productive season and didn't play in the playoffs. I also believe he was hitless in the 2000 playoffs.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 26, 2013 -> 09:43 AM) Sox fans are whiners so what. How does that prevent the Sox from winning? It cuts down on revenue. Most other teams would be doing a lot more business than the White Sox with the same track record in the same sized market. White sox fans find something wrong with everything, and then try to come across as a more sophisticated fan. It is a pretty simple thing. Go to a game and have fun. When everyone became a fan, the Sox didn't have a history of going to the playoffs every year and winning multiple championships. Now, all these criteria have to be met to get them to a game, and when those are met, they come up with more. People on this board are actually upset they are trying to win. What they need to do is somehow attract new people, and let the whiners die off. You aren't going to make them happy anyway.

If you have all these pieces of a championship rotation , besides setting yourself up for years of b****ing, what is the purpose of selling all of your other parts? If you have these pieces, going for it makes even more sense.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 26, 2013 -> 09:20 AM) How does a team go about getting a new fan base? This is right up there with you being for changes that improve the team. You can't, which is why Boyer has an impossible job. The current fanbase whines about everything. It used to be everyone wanted to be the Rays around here. The manager is a genius, they have young talent out of their farm system. Of course winning never entered the equation. Now everyone wants to be like the Cardinals. Could you imagine how you would have minimalized a WS trophy if the Sox had won one winning 83 games? I am always up for changes that improve the Sox chances to win. Your ideas do nothing of the sort. They only improve your opportunity to complain, which is great for you, but not so great for people who would rather be happy the Sox one than have them lose so they can say get rid of so and so he won't be on the next White Sox team that makes the playoffs anyway.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 25, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) Those improved, young, exciting Royals are currently in 4th place behind the s***ty, old, boring White Sox. Huh, go figure. They need a total rebuild. They should hire Marty to consult.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 23, 2013 -> 11:10 PM) White Sox culture. If we're making the argument that the team is still in contention and not aiming towards 2014, then 3 Daniel Hudson-esque starts in a row and he'll be relegated to the bullpen or Barry Zito status by a loud minority of fans, typically the ones that call into Rongey's post-game show. You call into Rongey's post game show?

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 24, 2013 -> 07:38 AM) He had a surgery to help lose weight. I'm not sure of the exact amount but he looks much better and is much healthier at 60 than he was in his 40's. His BIF (Butt in front) has dissappeared. My buddy used to do an impression of Herm running on to the field, it cracked me up every time.

Sending Jones down isn't going to help the team. They have already dipped into the Knights roster and we saw Heath, which I'm sure no one wants to see pitch in a meaningful game anytime soon, and Omogrosso, the guy whose presence on the mound was the reason for this thread. If they are the ones getting called up, the other guys are more than likely, worse. Nate struggled a little last year and turned it on. He still has the same ability, but his command is off, which has always been his issue. If he gets it together, which he showed he can last year, he's really good. Everyone fights through slumps. If Nate was nails everytime, his bank account would be a lot larger than it is right now. For some guys who want to see the Sox totally rebuild, it's amazing the lack of patience these posters have.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 23, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) Josh Phegley is batting .333/.400/.651 with 10 home runs and 28 RBI through 34 games at Triple-A Charlotte. Phegley is having a breakout year offensively and currently leads the International League with a .651 slugging-percentage. The White Sox would ideally wait until mid-June to promote Phegley to avoid Super 2 status, but they might not be able to resist calling him up for much longer with Tyler Flowers and Hector Gimenez struggling. per rotoworld. By the time they decide to call him up, he will have cooled down. The same thing happened with Viciedo a couple of years ago. Call him up while he's hot.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 23, 2013 -> 12:23 PM) What are you talking about? Nate was a pretty good pitcher in the minors from 2009 to 2011. Then he was pretty awesome for us last year. Just because he took a little longer to figure things out doesn't mean he never showed anything. He was drafted as a project. No one should have expected him to reach the majors before age 25/26. Not sure what your angle is here with the age factor. Marty just throws crap out there. Notice he goes days without posting when the Sox win. Matt Thornton was nothing until he came to the Sox. He was 29. Now he's the all time appearance leader in team history.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 23, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) I think rest is a huge part of the reason his defense has disappointed us. He makes these mistakes because he's winded. A backup is never winded. He talked about this on the radio in the preseason, that he was going to have a hard time with conditioning since it had been a while since he caught full time. That's what AJ gave you that I always felt was underappreciated around here. He kept the back up in the dugout. If Flowers is winded right now, that's on him, and it's not because he was a back up. If he wants to use that as an excuse, it's proof he shouldn't be anything more than a back up. You would think if you were going to get your big chance, you would be in the best shape of your life, ready for anything. If he is "winded" now, it is only going to get worse. If that's an excuse, he obviously can't hack it.

They should have learned from Randy Johnson, power pitchers that don't do anything until they are 26, aren't going to be successful very long. Oh wait..............

I think Flowers defense was a bit overrrated because of who he caught. He was Peavy's personal catcher. He's not going to get a ton of 57 footers to block. Peavy has a great move, so he's going to get a chance with every baserunner. If he were Santiago's personal catcher last year instead of Peavy's, the huge upgrade over AJ defensively that was talked about, would probably have never been talked about. Offensively, Flowers looks like he's going to be very streaky. I really doubts he develops into something too much better than he is now. Last night, he swings at balls in the dirt and takes pitches right down central for strikes. Gimenez did have a huge game last week, but he's probably not long for major league baseball.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 23, 2013 -> 09:11 AM) One of the biggest reasons I hate seeing KW hate is way too much of the farm system issues are put on the GM position (irrespective of who is sitting in the chair) and not so much on ownership. We, as an organization, stuck to our guns re: bonuses to unproven draftpicks/international signees under the last CBA and the fallout from that is ENORMOUS. Just think, if we go overslot for a player in 2003 that we took a bust over, and he turns out, then even though he's probably gone from the 2013 squad, we've likely traded him for pieces that have helped us or at least got a draft pick out of it - or if neither, having said player allowed us to fill a hole without trading further pieces from the farm and/or kept us from spending in free agency on an unnecessary player. The fallout from the old CBA, and the change over to our new system, is going to take several years. The Wilder event - same thing - that's still not over, we're still reeling from that s***, because prospects take several years to pan out usually and when they do they often create their own individual acquisition trees, where player X is traded for Y & Z, Z is released but Y goes as part of a deal for A & B, etc. We've taken some steps definitely but the biggest positive is seeing us spend like a Major League organization, which is something we haven't done in the past and really never did much of under the old CBA. Also there is the anti-Buddy Bell sentiment developing here. It's hard to know how much input he really has as far as the direction an organization takes with a player but, while I am not advocating running this thing backwards like the Pirates organization, we need to be more disciplined I think in the way we offer instruction and we also need to demand core peripheral results sooner out of our minor league players. We also shouldn't be hesitant to look at more trades involving our prospects for other teams' prospects. Every now and then we get the rare Aaron Cunningham-for-Danny Richar deals where 2 teams swap unproven players who have some upside, but I don't think we make enough of those types of deals. I think we need to hire as many good people as we can, and have as many people on the ground as we can, and we need a couple relatively useless bean-counters in here to compile all that information objectively and pass it on without adding a bunch of "Have mercy dadgummit this kid can play!" subjective interference that prevents a good move from happening or worse, turns a good move or a non-move into a bad move. Dave Wilder was fired 5 years ago. If the White Sox are still reeling from that, how is it people think they can totally rebuild their team in 2 or 3 years?