Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 07:57 AM) Some of this is the change in the structure of the league since 2007. In 2007, a guy hitting in the low .200's with 20 HR and good defense was a major liability. Offense has stepped back so much since then that the same production has gone from being a serious weakness in the lineup to a tolerable guy. Most of it is a lot of people like the same or worse players on other teams. Watch if Josh Bell has a decent spring training. A lot of guys who have already told you Beckham is useless and will tell you if he hits .800 in spring training its meaningless, and think Viciedo may be useless, will be all gung ho about him.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 08:37 AM) @seankjensen I do not believe there's any validity to the Jimmy Johnson tweet about #Bears and Marc Trestman. Phil Emery still has interviews coming up The Jimmy Johnson coaching tree hasn't exactly been stellar.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 08:17 AM) We shall see. I like his experience and he obviously was impressive in his interview. He has some history with Jay but a resume that extends far beyond that. Like Lovie and many other HCs, he will need to bring in very good assistants. If we bring in another good OC with Trestman, that should ease our fears that he's been out of the game for so long. And I hope we can find some way to keep Marinelli around. So you are saying this guy is getting hired for his offensive mind, but it is very important a good OC is hired because he's been out of the NFL so long? So much for his offensive mind. Good luck to him, I hope he does well. Maybe this will help the Bears moving forward, but in 2013, I doubt it, and the clock is ticking on the defense.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 06:34 AM) Bolded is true - but the other way around is somewhat true. And yet, despite being 9th in attendence in the AL, they had the 5th highest team salary, and that was after actually SHEDDING some from 2011. The argument that this White Sox regime, under KW/Hahn and JerryCo (since, say, 2000-ish), is cheap or unwilling to invest in the team, is 100% complete nonsense. This organization puts more into player payroll with less revenue than most teams in baseball. The attendance isn't stellar, but if you ranked the teams by total revenue, they would rank higher than 9th, but I do agree, the amount spent isn't the problem. You can argue how it has been spent has been a problem. Facts are, while people are moaning Hahn hasn't made 45 moves yet, had they had shown up at the games when the Sox were in first place last summer, perhaps some other moves would have been made. I don't think refusing to pay what the White Sox wanted you to pay to attend a game, and sit in a seat you can actually see what is going on in the game (although if you ever sit in the real cheap seats, you would think its a far better place to call balls and strikes than where the umpire sets up if you go by fan comments) makes you a bad fan, but when enough people stay away, it will eventually effect the roster.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) If nothing else, I am going to attempt to find a list and send an email to all 500+ writers in the BBWAA to plead Frank's case. There will be no one more deserving in that entire class than Frank Thomas of going into the Hall of Fame. I would think Maddux is bigger lock.

In my mind he is a HOFer so there is no reason it should not be on the first ballot, but for some reason some voters think some players are "deserving" of first ballot, and Frank spending a lot of time DHing, even though it has been a position in MLB for 40 years, may keep him off a year.

The last time the Sox attempted a complete teardown was after the dissappointing 1986 season. They were brutal in 87,88,89 and hit the jackpot in drafting McDowell, Ventura, Thomas and Fernandez. It spured a good team for several seasons, but only 1 playoff appearance, and that is with a string of draft picks that would be almost impossible to replicate. If you tear it down, chances are you are going to be bad for a while unless you are a team like the Cubs and people will show up regardless. The Sox should be in the playoffs more often. I'm sure they would admit that. But looking at their draft history since Larry Himes was waxed wouldn't make anyone believe they could rebuild a team from rock bottom in 3 years. Doing it this way makes a lot of sense.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 01:23 PM) That is a popular one as well. The only problem with that one is that sometimes the drug will make them to hyper and you can't concentrate. That's why people who work in orange juice factories can't have them.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 01:12 PM) guess what? I'm 26 and i still get zits from time to time. what a RIDICULOUS basis for not voting someone into the hall of fame. Read this http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2009/03/...llegations.html

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 11:59 AM) can I ask why folks aren't voting Piazza in the other thread? I know he's not going to make it, but it's a travesty for the best catcher in the history of the game not to be a 1st ballot HOF Supposedly his back was covered in zits well after puberty. I would vote for Bonds because I think he was a HOFer before he juiced. I think Piazza was juicing most of his career. I wonder if some of these guys will ever get in or are some voters just making them wait. I never understood that rationale. Either you think they are worthy or they are not. I don't know why being a first ballot is reserved for a certain player by some, and some think guys become worthy after being on the ballot for X number of years. Here is probably big reason why Piazza will never make it, supposedly he admitted it. http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2009/03/...llegations.html

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) Considering the number of homers Konerko and Rios hit, Dunn will bat with guys on base hitting behind deAza and Keppinger just as much if not more than if he hits behind Konerko and Rios. So by batting him 3rd you maximize the amount he hits with runners on plus you have guys behind him that can drive him in when he walks. If Viciedo and/or Flowers have breakout years then you might be able to make a case for sliding Dunn down to 5th behind Konerko/Rios and in front of Viciedo/Flowers, but as it stands now Dunn's walks will get wasted if he doesn't bat before Konerko/Rios. Check out Dunn's numbers over his career. His walks have not translated into runs. You have him bat behind those guys. Dunn drives people in with homers, so having Konerko on base when he is batting is almost like having Rickey Henderson on base when he's batting. If he bats in front of Viciedo, he'll score just as often after he walks as Viciedo homers at about the same clip as Konerko these days. I'd like a guy who gets more hits batting 3rd considering the Sox wouldn't be forfeiting OBP.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 11:51 AM) His OBP coming from walks is exactly why he needs to be hitting in front of Konerko/Rios and not behind them. He's not going to hit for enough average to drive in Konerko/Rios, but he will get on base enough for them to drive him in. How hard is that to understand? You want a low average/high walk guy before your best hitters, not after them. No The argument is that the 3 hole hitter bats a lot with 2 out and nobody on base. Dunn was a significantly better hitter both slugging and getting on base with runners on. He only got on base at a .314 clip with the bases empty and had an OPS near .900 with runners on. And he didn't score very many runs last year when he didn't drive himself in. You will argue that is not his fault, and it probably isn't, but it does point to a flaw in your logic.That is why it is hard to understand. What you are saying didn't occur. Maybe your theory would be correct with a guy who runs better , and can get himself into scoring position with doubles or stolen bases, but Adam doesn't do that much anymore.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 11:43 AM) In every thread where you've gone off about Dunn, myself and/or others have pointed out that while Dunn isn't anywhere near the player the Sox expected him to be, he still put up a .333 OBP and drew 100+ walks on a team that is sorely lacking in OBP and moving him down to where he has Ramirez and Beckham hitting behind him would make the lineup even worse than it already is. If you disagree with that assessment, then fine, but STFU about people not showing statistically why Dunn should be batting 3rd. A .333 OBP was 5th among White Sox regulars. Considering he isn't much of a baserunner and most of that OBP is a walk, it's a pretty weak argument.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 11:08 AM) Not at the expense of everything else (history, age, injury etc) that's the difference. I'm not willing to blindly write him off when there are plausible explanations for performance. Now you are defending Dunn, and you are the same guy who was getting slammed for his low first half grade for him last year. All I have been saying is he is no 3 hole hitter, but you want to argue for no apparent reason other than to argue. I won't take the bait. Why don't you just show me statistically or otherwise why Adam Dunn's performance makes him the best candidate to bat third?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 10:10 AM) And interesting thing I found about his injury. Don't know what kind of faith to put into it, but it was more interesting than the whole "he just sucks" theory, with no consideration to anything but statistics and hate. http://blog.anklefootmd.com/2012/06/15/whi...le-instability/ First off I don't hate Dunn. I don't think he's worth what the Sox are paying him and don't think he should bat 3rd, but I don't know why you would have a problem with someone using statistics and hate to rate a player. Its exactly what you use when discussing AJ.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 10:01 AM) Are you saying that injuries that correspond to when Dunn had his big drop offs mean nothing? What I am saying is he didn't get the job done for 4 months. Are you saying if a guy isn't getting the job done because he's just bad is a reason to move him in the line up, but if he's hurt you just continue to watch him fail? I also highly doubt is ankle injury was a 2 or 3 month thing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:55 AM) Or right about the time that he sprained his ankle in June? It actually started at the end of May, are you saying Adam was injured the last 4 months and that is the reason for his tail off? Irregardless, if he isn't getting the job done in the 3 hole, he shouldn't be hitting in the 3 hole, and he wasn't the last 4 months of the season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:51 AM) Dunn went south after his oblique injury. That is a pretty game changing injury for a pure power hitter. He actually started heading south around Memorial Day. Whatever witesox said, I'm not necessarily an Adam Dunn hater. The Sox are stuck with him and his homers do provide value. He just needs to be moved down in the line up.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:45 AM) And in his White Sox career, he had the worst season of all time with one of the worst managers in White Sox history (noting that 2009-10 Ozzie was horrendous). You are including an anamoly in those numbers. I'm walking away from this. I know how you feel about Dunn. I think it's very wrong. June he hit .181 with a .333 OBP July he hit .211 with a .311 OBP That's pretty brutal out of the 3 hole. Walk away because you are wrong. 4 out of 6 months in 2012, Adam Dunn was a little better than he was when he had to be held out at the end of the year to keep from having officially the worst season of all time. I hope if he's batting 3rd in 2012, he's not the hitter he has been 10 of the 12 months he's played baseball in a White Sox uniform.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) Yes, those are ideal. Due to those numbers and his career numbers, he is the ideal #3 hitter for the White Sox. It's possible he may struggle again, while also being possible that he hits .220 or .230, in which case he's extremely valuable. But you don't like Dunn so you won't see past that. I can see past it, but 2011 was brutal and his OBP was .305 the last 4 months of 2012 with an OPS below .750 despite leading the league in walks. Seems the one looking past something is you. That's not even counting Dunn being a base clogger and if he's not homering, chances are if he reaches, he's on first base. Adam Dunn is a .184/.315/.385/.700 hitter in his White Sox career. That is not an ideal #3 hitter.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) Yes, those are ideal. Due to those numbers and his career numbers, he is the ideal #3 hitter for the White Sox. It's possible he may struggle again, while also being possible that he hits .220 or .230, in which case he's extremely valuable. But you don't like Dunn so you won't see past that. I can see past it, but 2011 was brutal and his OBP was .305 the last 4 months of 2012 with an OPS below .750 despite leading the league in walks. Seems the one looking past something is you.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:18 AM) No, traditional baseball wisdom says your best hitter hits 4th. I've been over this before, Dunn is perfect for the 3 spot. Maybe in April 2012 and May 2012 during his White Sox career. Other than that, no way.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 08:45 AM) So now MLB is getting into 1990's technology in 2013. How hard would it be to have touch-screen computer terminals in the dugout and bullpen and have the manager or pitching coach just pick from a list of relievers on the screen and have it flash on the bullpen screen? Stop with the logic.

Alan Trammell according to Bill James is the 9th best SS of all time. I don't know if he is that high, or Bill James is that high, but the guy was a great player both offensively and defensively. He's definitely HOF material.

Interesting. I wonder if they will be subject to the can't get a signal that is rampant in a lot of parks.