Dick Allen

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:43 PM) Everyone is discussing the merits of Youk way too seriously given this deal really should never happen. For more than a few reasons. If this was the 2011 White Sox, when they were "all in", it makes perfect sense, at least from their end.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:40 PM) Yeah, but this would be a freebee. Peavy's coming off the books after this year. You just gonna sit on that money? Yesterday the Sox should trade Konerko, now Youkilis is a freebe? That would be rebuilding on the fly, the exact same thing you rip them for doing now. I'll use one of your lines, the White Sox aren't going to win a WS for the 2 years Youkilis has on his contract, he'd be a waste to pick up.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:36 PM) Jerry Owens =/= Kevin Youkilis The guy who took the struggling Youkilis' place has 7 extra base hits in 22 AB and an OPS over 1.400. Bobby V and Youkilis don't get along and Youkilis is starting to get banged up pretty regularly and his production is starting to drop. I think the Red Sox will dump him.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:27 PM) Everybody would. That would spell the end of Brent Morel. He's just terrible and I can't believe I fell for that September run. Never again. The White Sox do not do home-grown position players. If your for a total rebuild, picking up Youkilis makes zero sense. It makes the Sox a bit better, most likely costs them more money. Hurts their draft position and costs them money to be spend developing and signing players.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:13 PM) Why do you make things up? Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington said Kevin Youkilis (back) will retain his job as the starting third baseman when he's healthy, despite the strong start for Middlebrooks (hamstring), the Boston Globe reports. I didn't make things up, that was the story yesterday. I'm sure glad the White Sox don't have the same policy or Jerry Owens would have been playing instead of Carlos Quentin in 2008.

Supposedly Youk is getting benched when he comes back. I would think the White Sox would have to assume the extra cash which gets Boston a little farther away from luxury tax territory. They might bite. I just don't see the White Sox taking on salary although he would most likely be a huge upgrade for the offense, and the Sox are a little heavy in LH relievers.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 9, 2012 -> 10:47 AM) That's where I think they could have done this better. Sale as a reliever in his draft year, that was fine, he'd already put in over 100 innings that year. But then 2011 should have been his buildup from that point - from 140 IP in 2010, to starting innings in 2011, which isn't a huge leap. Instead, they had him go down to 70 innings in 2011, and then try to push him up to full time. That was a mistake, IMO. MB only relieved for a half year, after starting in the minors, and threw 170 innings that year, before going to full time starting. Derek Lowe went from a closer to throwing 200 innings a year. CJ Wilson only threw 70 innings in one of 4 years then had back to back 200+ inning seasons. To say they hurt Sale by limiting his innings last season isn't necessarily true.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:49 AM) No. He had tommy john in 2000, and went to relief afterwards. His arm wasnt saved by going to relief, they chose to make him a reliever after his arm was damaged. Plus, in 2008 they moved him back to relief, and shortly after his shoulder blew up. Not the same situation at all. If none of the news came out and Sale remained in the rotation and hurt himself, the posters who now think its no big deal to keep him in the rotation and if he blows out his elbow its no big deal, would be up in arms. The Sox are trying to prevent Sale's elbow from being operated on. Smoltz got moved to the closer role because they thought it wouldn't tax his elbow as much. In relief he doesn't have to throw 4 pitches. That also saves his elbow.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) DA even you have to admit that this move was curious at best. When has a team ever moved a pitcher from starter to relief(closer, no less) as a result of a tender elbow? And when has that moved worked for the better? It just doesnt make sense, I dont see how one role is better than the other. One is stress on the arm for a long period of time(6-8 innings), the other is high stress on the arm in short doses, more frequently. I just dont see how that is expected to cure this tender elbow. John Smoltz. Its not curious at all. The White Sox want Sale to be a starter, but more importantly, they want him to pitch for them. They have the information, despite what some think, this isn't Ventura, or Cooper or even KW, just coming up with the idea. I'm sure there were plenty of meetings. He's an important part of the team moving forward. I rip the Sox as much as anyone. But sometimes ripping things make no sense considering they have ALL the information and we really have NONE.

Its pretty obvious that despite the White Sox having better access to all the information regarding Sale, Soxtalk posters have a much better handle of what is really going on, and a much better plan going forward. The Sox are just idiots. No wonder there is zero chance this team competes for years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2012 -> 07:28 AM) If a guy is happy with sitting on the bench, I don't want him on my team. I agree, unless its a guy winding down his career and is happy to sit down. I fail to see anything wrong with players wanting to play. Its certainly better than the alternative.

A bench player wishing he could play more. What a controversy. What was KW thinking signing this guy? I thought the Sox were at about rock bottom until this.

QUOTE (Baron @ May 8, 2012 -> 06:21 PM) Then block me. Quit crying. You're the one crying

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 8, 2012 -> 06:14 PM) Good work Joe McEwing. Any other LF throws Dunn out there, but Johnny Damon's arm is god awful right now. I would love to see Damon and Pierre play long toss.

Justin Masterson is a very large human being.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 8, 2012 -> 04:46 PM) Something I was thinking about today. On MLB Network they were talking about how when Youkilis comes off the DL, he will likely have lost his job to Will Middlebrook and 3B, and the Red Sox will probably try and move Youk. He has got about $10M left on his deal, prorated. I wonder if the Red Sox kicked in like half the contract or so, if Kenny would try and go after Youk. Or maybe try and get creative and offer a Rios for Youk kind of deal, with the WSox throwing in a big chunk of money. I always have said Youk disgusts me for some reason, but if he were a White Sox, I would love him. I just don't see how you get anyone to take Alex Rios unless you're throwing in so much money you might as well keep him.

The new draft rules should help the Sox, and they have to do better with Latin signings. If you get some of those guys pan out, you can get away with some bad drafts. Look at Ron Schueler's drafts. They were as bad or worse than KW's, yet when he left, although it didn't prove to be true, his farm system was rated #1 in baseball.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 8, 2012 -> 04:14 PM) And perhaps, from the former manager as well? I think Walker really liked Ozzie. I think his problem was with KW.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) HAHA 50-65 wins a season? That's tough to do. But the bottom line is though that if they are going to miss the playoffs they may as well have the worst record in baseball. It does not matter. They could not "build" on their great 10-6 start because they are not that good. They have too many bad players on their team. That's generally what happens. It does matter. I understand draft position, but to say it doesn't matter if the Sox win 88 games and miss the playoffs or lose 100 is beyond silly.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:36 PM) Who said for nothing? You trade him if you can get some worthwhile pieces back. You don't keep him because he hit a grand slam in the World Series 7 years ago. The point is, you aren't going to get a major haul for him due to age and contract, even though his contract is fair. And you are limited as to where you could trade him as he has full no trade protection.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:34 PM) Trading the face of your franchise for esstentially nothing benefits the team how exactly? John Daniels recognized this and held on to his top player who had much more trade value than Konerko did. He also went out into the free agent market at this time. That's what I'm saying. All these rebuild guys can't even take it when they are rebuilding on the fly. Getting rid of anybody with even the smallest of value and starting over would be a total disaster.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) The guys the Rangers traded weren't 36. That's what I'm saying. This is franchise is going nowhere at the moment. PK is just not an untouchable asset. He pretty much is in reality. You can only trade him to places he would want to go and chances are you won't get much more than salary relief for him. That won't go over with the remaining season ticket base very well.

The total rebuild guys seem to think it won't harm the Sox to be real bad for so many years, but if meaningless baseball with bad players doesn't scare you away, how come the end of September game threads are 2 pages long? That's how they would be in April. Even the biggest diehards would cease to care whether you want to admit it or not.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:20 PM) The Sox did the same with Konerko. Unlike the Rangers, they don't have anything to supplement that. So you're saying it really wasn't a total rebuild.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2012 -> 01:14 PM) He also kept and extended the face of the franchise in Michael Young. He also kept Hank Blalock though those times, and signed some other FA contracts, such as Kevin Millwood. Yeah. The Rangers bottomed out at 75 wins. The year after they traded Texiera they won 79. Nowhere near a total rebuild and the Sox have no one who can get them the return Texiera brought Texas. 5 years at a minimum, if most everything goes right. It probably would be closer to 10.