Dick Allen

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jan 17, 2011 -> 06:25 PM) Comments like this irk me. The Bulls ARE amongst the top 3 in the East. I think you generally overrate the Magic, but you're a fan so it makes sense. I'm not really scared of them at all, especially if/when the Bulls get healthy. The only thing you have on the Bulls is that the Magic whoop their ass once a season by 40+. It will be nice to see what the Bulls have when they have all of their players playing. If they ever have all of their players playing. They are going to be getting a lot of national exposure the next several years. As a Bulls fan, the only team that I really feel a full Bulls squad doesn't have a realistic chance to beat is a full Heat squad.

The Bulls are on a 56 win pace halfway through the regular season. Considering how they haven't had all their main guys for almost 50 games and certainly not all at 100% for probably more than 50 games, you'd have to think they have a decent shot in the playoffs of winning a couple of rounds. I think if Miami is healthy, they are the team to beat. Boston's age is going to start to show pretty soon IMO. Orlando has been playing really well with their new players, but if the Bulls are 100% healthy, I like their chances vs. any except Miami. (given that LeBron and Wade are both reasonably healthy as well)

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jan 16, 2011 -> 07:37 AM) "You've got to watch people's legs. I know guys want to hustle and everything but we all want to play and provide for our families and have a job." Oh please. I NEVER want to hear a "provide for my family" excuse from ANYONE making over $100,000. So, Bosh is really saying no one should hustle on the basketball court. If Bosh is too worried about getting hurt, maybe he should just run away from loose balls. I also suspect Bosh's max contract is guaranteed. This is one of the most lame quotes of all time. Chris Bosh should be embarrassed by what came out of his mouth. I suspect it has more to do with his status as a player vs. Asik's status. His ego needs some ice. The "provide for our families" is comical as well as Bosh has signed contracts worth over $150 million and according to wiki, I know its not Walter Cronkite, he doesn't exactly "provide" anyway: On March 24, 2009, it was reported that Bosh's former girlfriend, Allison Mathis, was seeking child support and sole custody of their child. Mathis alleged that when she was seven months pregnant, Bosh stopped supporting her financially and tried to remove her from their home.[94] Three days later, it was reported that the dispute was only over the amount Bosh paid.[95] Mathis' lawyer also told the press, "My client very much wanted this dispute to remain private. Certainly this thing did not get started by anything on our side... She is very distressed that somehow this thing got into the newspapers. She wants Trinity to have a good relationship with her dad, Chris Bosh, and adverse publicity makes that more difficult."[95]

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 04:12 PM) Karma's a b****. All reports point to LeBron likely sitting. And stubhub prices are crashing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 04:04 PM) How many of those though were in those players first year or two, where they really weren't top 10 players? Not Kobe. Also Wade was on a team that won 15 games. He only played 51. Love is a pretty good player. Is he as good as the players mentiioned? I would say no, but again, I was just trying to refute the at least .500 point. Michael Jordan averaged over 37 points a game, was first team all NBA, was the best player alive, and the Bulls weren't .500. You can be elite and play for a pretty awful team. In fact, chances are if you are a top 10 talent, you will at least for a little bit, because chances are you are being drafted by an awful team.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) Completely different eras, dude. How about Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Dewayne Wade, Dwight Howard? They are the same era I would think. They have all played on teams that have finished below .500.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 08:15 AM) You're better than that, DA. I know I've been kinda crazy of late. But not that damn crazy. And you can't even count one of those years because MJ missed 65 games or so. All I did was point out the flawed thinking that top 10 players carry their teams to at least .500 records. For the record, I don't think of Love as a top 10 NBA player, and would never be foolish enough to compare him to MJ, but saying he's not a top 10 player based on Timberwolves losses isn't exactly fair.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 08:13 AM) Kevin Love to MJ? Please do not compare Love to Airness. Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Rose, Amare, Dirk, Carmelo, Westbrook, and maybe even Ellis so far this year are ahead of Love. But he maybe 11 or 12. I'm not comparing anyone to the best player of all time.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 14, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) Kevin Love is NOT a f***ing top 10 player in the NBA. I care not what PER says on this subject... and points and rebounds are glamorous, but GTFO. Top 10 players don't play on 10-30 teams. They carry their teams to AT LEAST .500. He's a decent passer, and a fantastic rebounder with little competition for that statistic on his roster. Kevin Love. Top 10. NBA. GTFO. I won't even bother to comment on the audacity of calling Blake Griffin a top 10 player in the League right now. The first 3 years of Michael Jordan's NBA career, the Bulls weren't .500. I'm guessingg he was in the top 10.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Jan 14, 2011 -> 05:49 PM) Didn't somebody, maybe Steinbrenner, call Forster a "Fat Tub of Goo" at some point? Dave Letterman

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) In reality, there are a couple of guys who have done it. There are many, many more guys who have tried and either had injury problems or fell apart completely. If there weren't there wouldn't be a name for it, and there would be guys swinging back and forth all of the time. There might be a couple who get away with it, but like I said earlier, guys are conditioned completely differently for the bullpen and starting. There is a really good reason why it doesn't happen all of the time. Couldn't that reason be there is a reason someone is a reliever to begin with? Almost every pitcher was a starter at some point. Whether it be lack of pitches, injury concerns, whatever, they become relievers. Then they go back to starting and fail or get hurt. Sale is a future starter relieving. I think its a totally different situation.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 06:43 PM) Santana did have innings in the minors, as did Buehrle IIRC. In 1999 Santana threw 160 innings the only time in the minors he threw at least 100. Buehrle threw 98 and 118 +51 pn the major league level. So they both jumped almost 70 innings. Buerhle jumped another 50 the next season. Sale had 135 last year. I'm sure its not going to hurt him, and if it does, he wasn't going to be much anyway. Other than helping the White Sox most, putting Sale in the bullpen also can aid another thing that is very important. His confidence. Ozzie picks his match ups. As a starter, he's going to face a line up stacked with right handed hitters. If he has confidence he'll be fine. If he doesn't, he get knocked around.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 06:00 PM) Link Buehrle was 21, Lowe was 29, Smoltz was 38 and had surgery. Ryan Dempster threw 206 innings after 4 years in the bullpen. He was 31. Chances are Sale, like any other pitcher, is going to get hurt anyway. Francisco Liriano started in the bullpen then became a starter the same season, and got injured. Johan Santana went from 43 to 108 to 158 to 228 in his early 20s and didn't have a problem. The good pitchers, it means nothing. Its the average guys who have career years and are suddenly pitching in the 7th and 8th innings when they used to get knocked out in the 5th or 6th and the next season they come back down to earth ala Esteban Loaisa. And if that study is accurate, Sale is already screwed. In college he went 36 IP to 86 IP to 102 IP + 33 professional IP.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) It will retard his growth towards being a 200 inning pitcher. There are pretty clear studies that show how the growth of a pitchers arm needs to be done. Forget 2014, we don't have starters for 2012. If Sale hasn't pushed into the 160 to 170 inning range this year, he won't be ready to be a 6 inning pitcher for 2012 when we need him as a starter. Do you have a link to these studies? A few of the more famous relievers turned starters are Derek Lowe, who went from spot starter to closer to starter. His first year as a full time starter 21 wins 220 IP. Smoltz was a starter turned reliever for 5 years. Went back to starting at age 38 and threw 230 IP. Mark Buerhle work mostly out of the bullpen his first year with the White Sox in 2000. In 2001 he threw 221 innings, which is more than he's thrown in any season since 2005.

Put him in the rotation if a starter is needed long term. If its just short term, keep him in the bullpen.

If Roberto Alomar doesn't get in on the first ballot, I don't think Frank does. But like Alomar, unless some report comes out that shows Frank juiced, he's a 100 percent lock to get in.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 03:17 PM) The Twins drew 1.1 million more fans than we did last year. In 2009 they drew about 130,000 more, but trailed us by about $30 million in total revenue. If you take that difference of a million fans times $30 a person, you make up the difference. Put it at a more realistic $50 a person, and they made about $20 million more than us. We won't know the numbers until April, but I bet the Twins made a significant amount more in revenue that we did last year. The Twins payroll was over $100 million by the end of last season. I don't think the Pohlad sons are as frugal as their father. Another thing to consider, until now, the Twins were receiving revenue sharing money. Now, I read, they will be paying in. The article I read claimed about a $25 million difference. I'm sure they made a nice profit last season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 02:19 PM) His splits in 2009 are ridiculous. He had 3 months, June July and August, where he gave up OPS's of 1.084, 1.035, and .935, bracketed by april with an OPS of .458 against him, August and Sept. of .642 adn .462 against him. Basically, he had a stretch where he was abjectly awful, bracketed by stretches where he was great. And that stretch in May where he was bad began with him missing time at the end of april/beginning of May with a shoulder injury of some sort. They sent him down to AAA in July, and he came back up and was right back to being lights-out. His splits in 2010 are pretty similar, except June, July and August is when he shined, although June he sported a nice ERA but his WHIP was horrid. A lot of walks but they easily could be intentional. July and August, he made himself millions. Obviously, going month to month with relievers isn't an exact science as its only about 11 or 12 innings a month. I was in Minneapolis in July and can tell you Twins fans held Crain in the exact same regard Linebrink was held around here. They expected bad things to happen when he entered the game. Maybe he's turned it around, or maybe he put together a pretty sweet salary drive.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 01:47 PM) Oh come on man, that's an impossible task, because you're asking me to prove a hypothetical. I can say people like Joba Chamberlain, Brandon McCarthy, Jonathan Papelbon, all of whom started out in the pen and never caught on as starters, but I can't prove that putting them in the bullpen was the single thing that hurt them. Exactly, which is why you cannot say that putting Sale in the bullpen will hurt him in the future as a starter. There is zero conclusive evidence its ever hurt anyone. He excelled in the bullpen last season. It was a small sample size and most of the games didn't matter, but the object is to win in 2011. It behoves the Sox to put Sale in the spot they think makes them the better team, not worry about his draft value, because pitching is pitching. It makes no sense that one year in the bullpen is going to cause anyone to fail as a starter. Most top of the line relievers were failed starters at some point. Another guy who went starter (although more of a spot starter), reliever, starter was Derek Lowe. He made a lot of money.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) If the Braves had had the choice of where to put Smoltz, they'd have put him in the rotation. And you don't know that 1 year in the bullpen won't be a major setback, just like I don't know that it will be. I just feel like you're absolutely refusing to acknowledge that there is any risk inherent to his career by using him this way You're refusing to acknowledge that putting him in the bullpen can be anything but bad. You're so concerned with first round draft pick "value." Please give me examples of pitchers who would have been stars, but were ruined because teams decided to put them in the bullpen. You would have a hard time proving that was the reason.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 01:20 PM) You know why Smoltz was able to do it? Because right after his first surgery, his doctor told him that it would be less tough on his arm to limit his innings, so they moved him to the bullpen. But then, a couple years later, they told him that things had reversed, and with the condition of his arm, warming up 60+ times a year would be more likely to re-injure it, so that's when he reverted back to starting. Smoltz did it because he had to in order to follow doctor's advice. My point wasn't necessarily protecting Sale. My point was Sale in the bullpen makes the Sox a better team. Smoltz relieved 4 or 5 years, and he came back into the rotation and was fine. 1 year in the bullpen won't kill Sale.

All pitchers are ticking time bombs. JR used to have a rule, no more than 3 years for any pitcher. He was going to make an exception for Alex Fernandez, because of his near perfect mechanics. Alex signed a 5 year contract with Florida when he was 26. He pitched one full season with the Marlins, 2 partials and 2 years he was DL'd the entire season. The point is Sale's mechanics aren't ideal. Several teams passed on drafting him, and it probably had everything to do with his mechanics. Eventually, like most pitchers, he's probably going to hurt his arm somehow. The Sox should just put him in the situation they feel helps the team win the most games.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) Well...I certainly can give reasons...having a guy like Sale warm up and pitch 60-70 times in short bursts, where he's coming out and throwing all fastballs every time, could easily be harder on his arm than long innings. It just works differently for some people. Moving them to the bullpen isn't necessarily "protection". The one thing I just don't want to do, long-term, is sacrifice the fact that his arm is already accustomed to throwing a good number of innings per year, because then if you try to move his innings back up, you need to re-adjust his arm. Bouncing around like that can be another bad thing for an arm. Smoltz was able to do it. Its not always for protection, but one thing Ozzie is pretty good at is not overusing his bullpen. Pitchers get hurt and sit out seasons and come back and throw a lot of innings all the time. A year in the bullpen isn't going to ruin him. If he fails, he would have failed anyway.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 12:47 PM) How about Sale needs to be in the bullpen because it makes the 2011 White Sox better. This isn't project prospect, we're trying to win the World Series. Exactly, and the logic is, if Sale has the ingredients to be a top of the rotation starter, a year in the bullpen isn't going to ruin that. If he's in the bullpen in 2011 and is a failed starter in 2012 and beyond, blaming it on a year in the bullpen would be ridiculous.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 12:25 PM) This logic is just silly. Not only are they not even close to the same type of pitcher, but their backgrounds are also totally different. The only reason why you'd compare those two is that they're left-handed. It makes as much sense for me to say "Sale needs to be in the rotation, they put McCarthy in the bullpen in 2006 and it did hurt him". What's it about Sale, who is accustumed to being a starter, but did quite well in a limited time in the bullpen, that is going to kill him if he spends 2011 in the bullpen? It what makes the 2011 White Sox best IMO. And even if he ultimately became a lockdown bullpen guy instead of a #4 or #5 starter, because I doubt ace type guys are ruined spending one year in the bullpen, I don't see where that ultimately kills the Sox first round "value" for him, another argument a lot of people make around here for why he has to be a starter. Considering their history of first round picks, anyone who actually contributes to winning, is better than most.