Dick Allen

The Sox need to trade everyone who only have 2 or less years left on their contract. The team should consist of young players and guys with at least 3 years left on their contracts because its really not about having the best team, its about maximizing trade value. The White Sox would not be better with Colby Rasmus instead of John Danks. I suppose if this was Cardstalk, Pujols should be out the door.

White Sox starters generally have better numbers pitching at USCF than away. Danks ERA was 0.16 higher at home, Buehrle was over 1.20 runs higher and Edwin Jackson's was higher in limited appearances, but homers and hits aren't to blame. It was walks in Edwin Jackson's case. All other Sox starters Peavy, Garcia, Floyd were lower. I see no reason to change the dimensions. Its not as if the Sox are getting beat with cheap home runs, and it certainly doesn't appear the fact that the park is a bandbox has gotten into the pitchers' minds.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 11:32 AM) Because the only reason we won all those games in a row was Vizquel, nothing else. Probably not but it is amazing the team did much better when Teahen got hurt and Vizquel played every day. Maybe it did have a mental effect on the pitchers and changed their season around. The more I watch baseball, the more important pitching and defense becomes in my mind, and it makes no sense to have a great pitching staff but a horrible defense, and that ruins your strength. I'm not a Juan Pierre guy, really I question whether he is a leadoff guy at this stage but he is one guy I have never seen loaf down the first base line, and he can't throw at all, but there were more than a couple of times he made catches on balls with men on base that would have been extra bases and a couple more runs at least if Scotty Pods was out in LF. Obviously you are going to have to score some runs. That is why its imperitive the Sox get a real DH this year whether is by rotation or a permanent guy. They can't play a bat short, especially if you are going to go with a couple of young guys.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 09:41 AM) The Question is: Would some of the Anti-Ozzie people on this site be willing to take on Ryno as the next Sox skipper? No, but if Cora gets a job, I would love the Sox to hire him to take Joey's place. It would really make Cubs fans mad, and I'm sure he's capable of doing whatever it is Cora does. He made the same shifts as Beckham. SS to 3B to 2B. That couldn't hurt. As to Quade, I think he's a solid hire. He's obviously not a big name, but seems to know what's going on and is respected. They still should suck.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Oct 18, 2010 -> 08:56 AM) The consensus on sports talk radio this morning in Chicago is that Mike Martz and his magical play calling is a disaster. There is fault to go around but the Bears rushed 12 times. Olsen, Forte and the O-line are terrible at blocking. May as let Forte get destroyed as oppossed to Cutler. Looks like Cutler will have his fourth O-Coordiantor in four years next year. The biggest criticism of Martz' offense has always been the QB takes a beating. Couple that with an inexperienced OL that probably isn't very talented, and you better make sure Cutler's heath insurance payments are up to date. The Bears have to be able to run the ball. It seems to me Martz wants to use every excuse not to run the ball. They were done yesterday but only by one score until the 4th quarter. 14 runs? I was at the game yesterday. The venom from many fans is almost funny. They are still 4-2, but any blame on this season has to be on Angelo. The OL is a joke. Its not Lovie's fault, or Tice's fault. Its Jerry Angelo's fault.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 18, 2010 -> 08:44 AM) Oh come on, 2nd and 3rd tier FA's as the solution to the offense? In 2005, frankly, we got lucky with a giant score on a 2nd tier FA right fielder coming off of several years of injuries. While that might work again...you're flat out not going to convince me you'd be happy about that. You want some examples of 2nd and 3rd tier FA's right now? Andruw Jones, AJ Pierzynski, etc. The same type of guys that we're letting go, and the same level of guys that would set off the "the Sox are always cheap, look at the crappy 2nd and 3rd tier FA's they signed to try to plug their offensive holes!" people. Oh come on back to you. Since when have the Sox signed a top line offensive free agent from another team? I'll answer it, Albert Belle. How did that work out? I'll answer that, not so good because the pitching staff wasn't so hot, they signed Jaime Navarro. Pitching wins in real baseball. Fantasy, go for the offense. Besides, do you really thing the Sox are going to win a bidding war for the top guys? There are plenty of second tier guys who may be able to help you. Derrick Lee wasn't very good in 2010 and isn't what he used to be, but everyone said the same thing about Konerko, and Lee had a thumb injury in 2010. He will be available for a decent price both in dollars and years and Ozzie loves him from the Marlin days. He's a possibilty. Jason Kubel might not be brought back to Minnesota because their payroll is jumping. Add those 2, with improvement from Beckham, and bring AJ back at a slightly reduced rate. Obviously its just speculation with Kubel, but there have been several reports he could be bought out, although I find it hard to believe they wouldn't exercise the $5.5 million on him. JD, AJP, Thome coming off injury all were 2nd or 3rd tier guys. Trading away your best pitcher with 2 years left at still a bargain rate considering most of this board thought Javy Vazquez as a 5th starter and an ERA hovering over 4.50 was fairly compensated at $11 million, is beyond stupid.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 18, 2010 -> 08:19 AM) There's always a question though about how you define pitching depth, especially in a starting rotation. This fanbase still has scars on it from 2003-2004 when the "5th starter" spot went >1 year without recording a win, but that's not how it normally goes with 5th starter spots. Take a look at each and every team in the playoffs right now and their 5th starter spot. Name a team that has a solid, every-time 5th starter. The Giants...their $20 million 5th starter didn't even make their playoff roster as a LOOGY, and they've shuffled in guys like Baumgartner midway through the season. The Yankees...their 4th starter wasn't even on tap to get a start in the DS, they're probably unhappy about giving him one in the LCS, and their 5th starter didn't make their postseason roster. The Rangers have a clear 123, all of whom pitched 200+ innings, but no one else pitched 150+. Hunter pitched 128 on the season due to some injury problems, and their 5th starter was unclear at the start of the year and bounced around. The Phillies have a great top 3, Joe Blanton is a reliable #4, but their 5th guy (Moyer) got hurt for the season and so they wound up needing Oswalt. They have the most complete starting rotation in the playoffs, and even they had to go out and deal for a starter. Freddy Garcia for the Sox last year was a positive anomaly. Most teams shuffle through several 5th starters over the course of a season. Most teams get an ERA of well over 5.5 out of their 5th starter spot, cumulative. Teams can get to the playoffs by having a solid 5th starter because it can be worth several extra wins, but it's no where near a requirement. If this team can hold onto the 6 man pitching staff and field a competent offense with an upgraded DH slot compared to last year, then doing so is a good move. If this team has to choose between going with their top 5 pitchers and fielding a competent offense, their top 5 pitchers are likely to be good enough to do it. Signing someone to be a long man and occasional starter would be a solid move for depth, but that's not worth more than a couple million dollars to us. My point being Danks is need on the White Sox pitching staff. If trading a pitcher is a must, trade someone else. Buerhle for sentimental reasons is the guy who pitches opening day. Peavy when healthy is probably the best pitcher of the bunch but will he ever be healthy again? Danks is the best pitcher on the Sox roster. You don't trade the best pitcher on your roster if you are trying to win. You can upgrade your offense with 2nd or 3rd tier FAs like KW did in 2005 and win that way. If the Sox don't bring Konerko back, they are going to have some money to spend.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Oct 17, 2010 -> 10:06 PM) Dick its pretty simple, this team has pitching depth and need another big time bat. You saw how the season went with the pitching staff we have and the lack of hitting. Unless the Sox have the money to sign 2 impact bats then there is no way a starter shouldnt be traded and Danks makes the most sense, he'll give you the best return and may not resign. No I didn't. I saw when the Sox struggled, the pitching staff struggled. It would have been very nice to have a real DH, and the Sox could have had one for $1.5 million, but chose to pass. If you saw how the season went, you would come to the conclusion with injuries to Peavy, Sale's age and lack of experience, Garcia's recent health history, Buerhle's workload the past decade, Floyd finishing 2 seasons in a row hurt, that pitching depth is a must. Trading Danks for a hitter will result in more runs, but fewer wins. I guess runs are more important to you.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 17, 2010 -> 07:16 PM) Tillman didn't exactly do a ton to help his case this year either. Completely flopped in the majors (again), saw a decrease in his K/9, and an increase in home runs, and this was his 2nd go around in AAA too. I'm not going to suddenly say he's not a prospect, just that it's possible. Considering that something along the lines of 60-65% of top 100 pitching prospects fail, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Plus he was 29th in a Baseball America list which, from what I understand is just guys like Phil Rogers getting glowing reports from GMs ranking them. BP didn't have him in their top 100 coming into this year. He's still a better prospect than most, he's just not a lock to be anything special.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 17, 2010 -> 06:56 PM) You forgot about pitching prospect Chris Tillman, ranked in 2009 as the #22nd best prospect in all of baseball and looking to be a frontline starter for years to come. Yeah, I missed him, but I don't know if he's quite looking like a frontline starter for years to come yet, and that trade was 3 years ago, so even with this trade that appeals to you, the team isn't better yet because of it, Why not keep Danks. Maybe he has a huge year. You can't tell me you won't get a big return if he has a good season a year from now. The rush to trade him just for perhaps more hitting, doesn't add up to me, and I hope doesn't add up for KW unless he's decided to re build.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 17, 2010 -> 06:39 PM) The talent given up in that trade was enormous. Adam Jones has a lot of talent. The other 3 are easily attainable for some obscure player you would never miss if KW is interested. In fact, he could have had George Sherrill for nothing but wisely passed. The Orioles lost 93 games in 2007 and lost another 93 when they traded Bedard in 2008 and 98 games in 2009 and 96 in 2010 not that it didn't work out for them because of the injury, but even with this "enormous" haul they received, if Bedard were healthy, and never traded, chances are they would have won more games. The Sox are trying to win in 2011. If they lose 93 or 96 or 98 games, there is going to be a whole lot of payroll slashing because attendance will take a huge nosedive.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 17, 2010 -> 03:48 PM) Erik Bedard for one, what a lopsided trade. Only because of injury. If Danks is going to get hurt, but all means, trade him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2010 -> 04:09 PM) I am not forgetting that. As a matter of a fact that is exactly why he is at his peak value to other clubs right now. Every bit of time that goes by lessens that value, because the team that trades for him will receive less time of Danks. You have to admit that starting pitching is the biggest strength of this team right now. It is also the thing that teams will pay the most to get. Its also dumb to be in win-now mode when you aren't looking for a way to get quality players to fill your biggest holes. If it is the strenth of the team, why do you look to weaken it? I'm not sold on the other parts of the rotation. Danks is at his peak value to the White Sox and that is what should matter most. Buerhle finished the season very average and has been average at best the second half of seasons recenty. Peavy is a question mark. Freddy Garcia may or may not come back and really do you think its a lock he can give you what he gave you in 2010? Floyd has had 2 very similar seasons when he's only been above mediocre for 2 of 6 months and finished hurt. Edwin Jackson seems like he could be pretty good. He also could be pretty bad. The strength of the starting rotation is John Danks. He's the surest thing. Sale was great in shorts spurts. Is he ready for a full time starter role? Its not an obvious yes. Teams trying to win don't trade away their best players. Can you name any teams that traded away their best starter and got better the next season? Pitching and defense is the more boring path to baseball, but it is the winning path. When the Sox won the WS, they lost their best hitter for most of the year and he was a shell of his former self when he did play but really it was home run or bust. He was replaced with a pretty average guy. Frank Thomas and Carl Everett. Everett was replaced by a guy who had a monster year in 2006. In fact the offense was better in 2006 than 2005 but the pitching fell apart and the team wasn't as good. Trading John Danks because he's worth more now than he may be worth in a year or 2 is pretty sad and so Pittsburgh Pirates.

Did you hear what Gammons had to say? Supposedly the Red Sox are going after Crawford, but may bat him down in the order thinking it will appeal to him as he really doesn't feel like stealing 70 bases anymore. Its too much of a beating. The more I read about Crawford, the more I think giving this guy $100 million is going to be regrettable. He's a great player, but will probably fade like Tim Raines. Still very useful, just not worth what he's going to be paid.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2010 -> 09:32 AM) If the choice is that, or a couple of draft picks, I take the CFer on the verge. But you are forgetting the 2 years of Danks's services when he should be coming towards a peek. This is not a guy to trade. How many ace-like pitchers get traded and what comes back is even better? If the White Sox are in a win mode, dealing perhaps their best starting pitcher is dumb.

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Oct 17, 2010 -> 12:14 AM) if you trade danks, the idea is to get better, which means to have more wins than the previous year. i don't expect them to trade danks, just to trade him. the haul for a danks should and will be pretty huge if he goes. And you just made my point. Trading Danks, as many posts in this thread suggest as PART of a package for Colby Rasmus, isn't going to make the Sox better. They will be worse. Their payroll may be a few dollars less.

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Oct 16, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) There won't be fewer fans in the stands if we trade Danks away. People said the same thing about Buehrle being a possible FA, that people would be sad and folks would stay away from the ballpark. The fact is, the only thing that brings fans to the Cell is a winning baseball team. I don't care how they do it and if trading Danks gets us a huge package of talent and makes us a better ballclub, I am all for it. There won't be fewer fans because they will be missing John Danks. There will be fewer fans because there will be fewer wins. And why do people want to trade him at all. If he stays 2 season and leaves, the Sox will get the draft picks so many people around here covet. He's definitelyh a guy you would offer arb.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Oct 16, 2010 -> 03:37 PM) Not sure which Javy trade youre talking about but neither do i see as bad deals, yes tyler flowers slumped this year but Lilli looks to be the utility man of the future, maybe more, Gil Brent Lillibridge? Really? .248 OBP and 36 ks in 98 AB make it seem like he's more of a Culligan man of the future than the utility man of the future.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2010 -> 02:21 PM) You are the one who keeps saying we have no money to spend... Isn't it obvious? When did I say they have no money to spend? I have only stated what has happened, KW is hinting budget. Guess what, you trade Danks, there are going to be fewer fans in the stands. Pitching wins. The Sox have Konerko, Jenks, AJP all off the books. There should be some money available for a decent bat or 2. Destroying your rotation isn't the right move. Its a lot harder to get a pitcher of Danks quality than hitters who can help you win if your staff is decent. If money is the reason everyone wants the Sox to trade Danks, it makes the Jackson move and the Ramirez very questionable. I didn't mind the Jackson move at all, but if the choice is Jackson and whatever you can get for Danks or Danks and Hudson, I take Danks and Hudson. If the Sox have $4 million for Manny Ramirez, money should not be discussed as an issue with this team.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Oct 16, 2010 -> 08:10 AM) You must be pretty confident that Danks will sign an extension? Because if he doesn't, there's a good chance won't be here past 2011. I don't understand trading an ace- like young pitcher who you still have control of for 2 years, unless you get something very similar or even better back and it better be pitching. I could understand trading him next offseason when he will have a year left and the Sox came to the conclusion he was going to test the market and didn't like their chances. You still would get an excellent return. Pitching wins. Teams that dump their best pitchers, usually don't do very well in the standings. Trading him now because you are scared he may not re-sign is small market mentality. Let the Pirates think like that. If the object is winning, worry about Danks contract at least another year.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2010 -> 03:59 PM) Could A Quentin/Rasmus swap possibly work? Maybe if the Sox threw in Pena and Teahen. I'm sure LaRussa wouldn't mind Lillibridge either. He can play a lot of positions.

Cora is the defense guy. The OFers continue to miss cut-off men. The defense wasn't so good until Vizquel played and calmed Ramirez down. I don't see how his leaving would hurt the White Sox. Good luck to him, I'm sure he wants to make out the line up card. Maybe the Sox could bring in Sandberg to be the bench coach just to piss off Cubs fans.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 14, 2010 -> 08:13 PM) Dunn created 45 batting runs last year in a pretty neutral park. Quentin created 12.4. The difference in their offensive production is about 3 win shares. That's quite the difference. Dunn had about 110 more plate appearances than Quentin in 2010. If Quentin continued the pace he was on and had 110 more plate appearances, he would have hit another 5 doubles and 5 homers, so he would have wound up with about 5 less doubles and 7 less homers than Dunn while scoring more runs and driving in the same amount, and that was horrible, must get rid of Carlos Quentin. It still would have been 30+ homers and 100+RBI. Using the park factor doesn't really qualify with Dunn. He's also played in bandboxes and put up the same numbers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Dunn sucks or anything. He's just not worth what he's going to be paid at least to the White Sox. I would much rather pay Quentin $5 million than Dunn the probably $15 million a year he will command.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 14, 2010 -> 05:56 PM) I wouldn't. Not at 15 million a year. Not with all the other financial obligations we have. I agree with you there. But Dunn is and has been one of the premier sluggers in baseball for the last 7 years. Money is a big part of it, especially if its the White Sox and not the Yankees or Boston. Quentin made $3.2 million this year, and a lot of this board hated him. They want him gone. Dunn gives you a little bit more than Quentin did this year. About 10 more homers, about .050 in OBP, he hit about .020 better and about 100 more strikeouts. As much as several here say they would love him, he would be quickly turned on, especially considering the kind of money he's going to make. Thome hit a lot of homers with the Sox, yet people were doing cartwheels when he left. Dunn offensively isn't too much different from what Thome gave you with the Sox his last 3 seasons. Edwin Jackson, pro-rated, had the best numbers of any Sox pitcher, yet people around here are crying about his $8.5 million price tag.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 14, 2010 -> 05:36 PM) I don't get where you're coming from. You're seriously comparing Dunn's resume with Quentin's? You can pretty much pencil in Dunn at .250/40/100/.380/.520/.900 and not think twice about it. CQ has one great year to his credit. It's not close. Pencil it in all you want. We'll see what happens. As I said before Dunn is the better hitter, but its really not by as much as you think. Maybe he will continue to put up the splits you suggest, maybe not. Thome did and was hated, not worth bringing back for $1.5 million. People will be doing cartwheels if the Sox signed Dunn for $15 million a year. IMO, its a collossal waste of money. Their production is pretty similar per 162, even with Quentin only having one big year.