Dick Allen

Cutler had a month to throw that ball. Nice play.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 7, 2010 -> 02:26 PM) Wait, what? You must be too young to remember Lance Johnson.

Cutler threw it away. That's actually progress.

If the Bears don't get better players, its not going to matter who the coach is next year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 7, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) Sometimes it seems Cutler gets into a mode where you know it's just a matter of time before he turns it over. He threw 4 straight terrible passes that all could have been intercepted prior to that fumble. He had been playing a very good game prior to that string of plays (besides the missed Forte TD). Up to this point in his career, he's a talent but not a winning player. Maybe someday it will change, but some guys have a knack for doing things to win games, some guys have a knack for screwing things up at the most inopportune times. It looks like he's going to have to make some plays in the 4th or the Bears are going to lose.

The Sheriff needs to hold on to the ball.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 7, 2010 -> 01:45 PM) Pierre would be terrible in CF, he would give up a huge amount of runs with that arm of his. One Dog played CF a long time for the White Sox. His arm was equally as bad.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 7, 2010 -> 12:44 PM) On top of that...what quality CF would be available who is better than Rios and somehow at a lower price? It doesn't do too much to help the system if you trade Rios away, but then take everything you've gotten back for Rios and more and trade that away to re-fill that CF hole. Perhaps a Jacoby Ellsbury. They can also go for a LF or RF and move Pierre to CF. If Rios hits like he hit the 2nd half of the year, his contract is dead weight.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2010 -> 08:16 AM) In the immediate terms, it is the quickest way, especially if people are serious about wanting to rebuild the farm system you were complaining about in another thread. I suppose its impossible to trade for a CF or a LF and move Pierre back to CF. Thanks for the info. I must be real stupid, but I'm glad you're around to help me out. I'm glad you called me out for complaining about the farm system. I suppose I'm unique.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 7, 2010 -> 01:12 PM) Keith Law came out with his top 50 Free Agents list. Not surprisingly, Konerko isn't viewed highly in Law's eyes. He ranks Konerko as the 12th best Free Agent, behind the likes of Jake Westbrook, Jorga De La Rosa, Andy Pettite, and a couple other LOL names. About Konerko he describes Konerko as "The biggest time-bomb in this class as a low-defense, old man slugger". He says that whoever signs him will be an overpay based on his name, and says Konerko is very close to "the cliff". If you just read Keith Law and not watched any games, you would think the White Sox lose 120 games a season. Somehow, someway, KW must have done something to really piss Mr. Law off.

I know the article says the Sox are trying to re-sign both, but if they haven't made offers when they had exclusivity with them, it would seem the title of the article may not be accurate.

I love Paulie and have defending him many times, but realistically, while many of the people who wanted Paulie sent packing the last few years and wanted the Sox to eat a lot of his contract to have that become reality, are now, Paulie must be re-signed people, chances are the pendulum will swing back the other way. Paulie has the thumb issue that can pop up at any time. If he signs for what some "experts" are speculating, you can't blame the Sox for taking a pass.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 05:13 PM) Seriously, go look at the list of FA outfielders. Outside of Werth and Crawford who should get significantly more than $12 mil, who would actually interest you? Melky Cabrera? Jerry Hairston? Outside of those 2, I don't see anyone on the market who got 400+ AB's last year. Going by at bats, the next 3 down are David Dejesus, Coco Crisp, Jim Edmonds, and Andruw Jones. Those guys put up OPS's close to .800 or even above, but there's a reason they didn't finish off a full season. Rick Ankiel? Willy tavares? Willy Bloomquist? Basically, if you want a full time CF, you're bidding on Werth or Crawford, or you better have a platoon partner for the guy. So the only way to acquire players is through FA? If your hopes are the Sox will fill holes with high priced free agents, you haven't been paying attention for years. The last time they gave another team's FA more than 20 million was 14 years ago.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 05:15 PM) That's a fascinating way of minimizing Gio. I like Gio, but the Sox had 6 picks of the first 70 picks and 6 years later all they have to show for it is a bloated contract with Mark Teahen. Why is it teams like Boston find the Pedroias or the Bards and the White Sox get the Lumsdens and Whislers? I don't think its just luck. I'm happy you're satisfied with the Sox drafts over the years, and especially statisfied they had 3 or 4 guys have a cup of coffee in the big leagues when they could have drafted a future MVP or other useful parts. Maybe you are related to Duane Schaffer, but anyway you slice it, the 2004 draft was weak.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 08:18 PM) Intangibles are worthless. Especially when your average and on base% are nearly one in the same. Did you know the Texas Rangers, the AL Champions, catchers hit .212 and had an OPS nearly 100 points lower than AJ? Working with a pitching staff is THE most important thing a catcher does. The days of Ivan Rodriquez-like steroid-fueled numbers are ova.

If the Sox do not retain AJ, Konerko or Jenks, I think it would be fair to officially put 2005 in the rear view. Enjoy the championship, but it will be time to start holding all accountable by what is going on now, not giving anyone a pass because of what happened 5 years ago. I think Buehrle would be the only one left unless Garcia re-signed.

Phil Rogers is reporting Buddy Bell is being considered for a coaching gig with Toronto. I just remember the Sox reality show when they were going around asking all the scouts and other officials if they thought the Sox needed a hitter or pitcher at the deadline. Everyone said pitcher except Buddy. There is something that makes me think he has a love/hate relationship with the Sox organization. I remember when he managed at KC taking a few shots at the White Sox dugout leadership for "not knowing the rules",

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 12:43 PM) The biggest argument why that won't happen is that CF is the one position where we can say the Sox legitimately have no one who could be pressed into service. You might not like Flowers at C, Morel at 3b, Viciedo at 1b, Quentin in RF, Santos or Sale at closer...but if we don't sign or trade for someone to fill those positions, we can field a lineup there. If the Sox trade Rios...who steps in? Either they're forced to outbid the Yankees and Halos for Crawford/Werth, which will make Rios's contract seem cheap, or we have some combination of De Aza/D2/Gartrell playing there. May as well go for the full rebuild if you're not holding Rios. Rios was great the first half, but if he starts playing like he played the second half, we will start counting the days before his contract is off the books. With another $12 million a year freed up, the Sox wouldn't have to rely on in-house options to replace him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 04:03 PM) Really, no it isn't. By my count, with 0 picks in the top 15, The Sox got 4 guys in the first 2 rounds who made appearances in the big leagues, one guy who looks to be a long term solid starting pitcher, another guy who had promise but blew out his knee. Out of their top 19 picks, 10 of them have made it to the big leagues in some form. I don't care if you're just filling up your bench, your bullpen, players 25-30 on your roster, or trade-bait, that is not terrible performance in the overall draft. If you don't think they had a bad draft based on the number of high selections they had, who they selected and who they passed up, I suppose if you were running an organinzation, you would spend little to no money on scouting and just do your draft off a subscription to BP or BA. There wasn't one guy of the 6 in the first 2 rounds that has a career WAR at least 0.0.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 03:49 PM) Exactly why pointing at the people we passed over in any particular draft is a silly way to judge the worst draft pick ever. So what you are saying is except for the obvious top picks, the entire draft is a crapshoot of epic proportions and really you shouldn't give anyone any credit for drafting a guywhere the Sox usually select who becomes successful, nor should you really hammer anyone for picking someone after the top 10 or so who doesn't make it because its more luck than good talent evaluation and projection? In no way am I suggesting Donny Lucy is the worst pick ever. Wes Whisler was picked ahead of him and at least Lucy helped the Sox a tiny bit. But the Sox had ample opportunity that draft to really aid their team for a long time and failed miserably.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 02:36 PM) I disagree wholeheartedly. If you take a look at the top 10 spots in the draft historically, there is a significantly higher percentage of impact players selected there than anywhere else in the draft just like there should be. Drafting in those spots doesn't guarantee you anything, but it does greatly improve your odds of drafting an impact player. Therefore, if you don't ever have a chance to draft in the top 10 spots, like the White Sox missed out on for a long period of time, you've greatly reduced your chances of getting such a player. Of course there are impact guys later in the first round and the rest of the draft, but it's exactly like Balta said, it becomes much more of a lottery. To be honest with you, I think the Sox have done an ok job with their later picks. Chris Young, Brandon McCarthy, and Chris Carter are just several that come to mind. It's the early picks that have killed us and I'm certain we'd have a few less misses if we were picking in the top 10 on a regular basis. The year Lucy got drafted, which is the draft this entire conversion began around as many were mentioning names of players who were available when they took Lucy off the board, there is no mention that Lucy happened to be the 5th White Sox selection. They had already chosen Fields, Lundsen, Gio Gonzlez and Wes Whisler. They also took Ray Liotta in round 2. That is a very weak haul with 6 draft picks that high. Anyone on soxtalk could have selected Beckham or Sale when they were on the board when the Sox picked. These scouts need to step up and pick some guys who are going to develop, either that, or maybe the Sox don't have the correct people developing players. There have been plenty of guys who have turned into pretty good players the Sox have passed on through the past 15 years or so while picking some real stiffs.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 09:36 AM) I've got to agree with Fathom here. If you watched the Bulls and compared them to the Celtics last night...the first big difference is that the Bulls's bench is a disaster in the 2nd quarter and dominates the 4th for some reason I can't figure out. The second big difference is that the Celtics just weren't making the kind of mistakes the bulls were making. 2 turnovers off of inbound plays with under 4 minutes to go? That was horrible and frankly they were just careless mistakes. Or the time after time that they failed to rotate on the pick and roll...usually Rose again but sometimes the other guard...that is just killing them. Better backcourt defensive positioning and the Bulls might have beaten both the Knicks and the C's. The Bulls still look like a poorly coached team half the time. The big difference between now and last year is that they are now actually running better sets on both sides of the ball...the ball movement on offense is vastly better, and the frontcourt defense is vastly better (everyone Deng guards seems to shut down). There are still too many little mistakes though. If this team played like a veteran team...i.e. like the Celtics...they'd look like a team that could win 60. If you have a group of players that has barely played together vs. a group of players that are somewhat familiar with each other that is what it usually will look like. I'll give Thibideau the benefit of the doubt regarding his effectiveness for a while, for the players to learn his system and how to play with each other although it does appear he does a lot of standing on the sidelines looking like more of a spectator than a coach. I do know one thing, when Boozer comes back, either he or Rose have to be on the floor at all times or this team is going to lose ground.

I think the Sox trade Alex Rios. He had decent numbers overall, but his second half was worse than the numbers he had with Toronto when they gave him away. The Sox might be able to sell the entire line of work and might get some decent parts back for him, and free up cash money.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 10:40 AM) Kurt Brown (pick before Bonds) Jason Dellaero (pick before Berkman) are worse, but Lucy eight picks ahead of Pedroia is one of the Sox worst picks. You're going to miss on players. I think what it shows is that its a total myth the Sox draft position is what keeps them from developing great players. There are plenty available every season. They just haven't been very good at recognizing them over the years. Sure they haven't had the top pick slam dunk selection for years, but even when they had that incredible run with Himes, they were eyeing other players. They really wanted Harkey instead of McDowell but the Cubs picked him. They really wanted Jeff Jackson but the Phillies picked him and they had to take Frank Thomas. For some reason the Cubs selecting in front of the Sox and looking for a 3B for decades pass on Robin Ventura, and Alex Fernandez was a no brainer but Milwaukee drafted him in the first round 2 years earlier and didn't sign him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 09:08 AM) Which is of course why the Cubs replaced their hitting coach last year. Because of Greg Walker. Using Soxtalk logic, Rudy Jaramillo is good for a lot of wins. Its funny the team he left went to the WS.