Dick Allen

I will agree if the offensive improvement is going to be based on Rios, Quentin being fully healthy for a full year, having Beckham an additional 2 months, that this has been a bad off season, because you have to remember the Sox lost a lot of HR and RBI with Thome and Dye being gone, and some batting average with Pods being gone and most of their steals with Pods and Getz gone, and the offense clearly wasn't good enough last year. You would probably be looking at a wash at best, but its the middle of December. No reason to panic yet. I will say when I read where Ozzie said Vizquel may be leading off and even DHing occassionally, it scared me. But he has to just be talking out of his behind.

People here hated Thome. Thome is better than Cust and at least he won't hurt you in the field.

QUOTE (goblue5699 @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) Adam Miller seems like the type of guy Kenny would take a flier on. Plus Coop'll fix 'em. He has an injury problem. He may never pitch again.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 03:01 PM) Isn't it likely that the Sox are seriously looking at both of these options? What's the harm in reporting that? No problem reporting it, its if any of these guys do get acquired, its what will follow. Like he broke all the stories. All you have to read to realize your buddy Joe is as unprofessional as they come is his tweets.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) Agreed DA, and Peavy was definitely a financially motivated deal on the part of San Diego And KW was on the other end with the Swisher deal. He moved $27 million or so owed to a guy who hit .219 striking out all the time and was passed by Dewayne Wise. Swisher does alright. The guys coming back are basically nothing and people are up in arms, but I think the next couple of years they will be a lot happier with the players the Sox have that will be making the money that would have went to Swisher, than had he would have kept Nick Swisher. I thought and still think it was a good deal for the Sox, even though 10 years from now and even now, some may think KW got taken to the cleaners.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 09:01 AM) I still dont think it matters in the grand scheme of things because of the boom or bust nature of prospects. We can sit here and talk about how the Sox system is full of nobodies and lesser players, and that scouts look at the system with derision, but that same farm system netted them Peavy last year, and at this point the only player that looks like will truly stick at the Major league level is Richard. Prior to the last few years the system was subpar, and KW was masterful at being a snakeoil salesman to get what he wanted. Now with them focusing on minor league development, KW will be able to be less of a snakeoil salesman and more of a Rolex salesman and the deals will be a little easier, and the kids will be able to come up and produce. The other thing is when you are trading prospects for established players, it really isn't exactly how it used to be. Most trades aren't baseball trades, they are financial deals. Generally, if you are willing to pick up most of a big contract and send over some prospects, there is a pretty good chance when the trade is evaluated 10 years later, you will look like a genius. See Hendry, Jim. It still happens where you will get burned, but giving up prospects for established players usually works out in your favor these days because its not all about the talent coming back. Its one reason I think the Peavy trade is KW's all-time best. He might have even been able to give up less, but Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda is all it cost for Jake Peavy? That's a no brainer.

Now Cowley is saying the Sox are thinking Juan Pierre. If he throws out all the names and one comes to the Sox he will be the guy that knew all along.

QUOTE (Big Daddy Kool @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 08:50 AM) Wasn't one of the reasons he was traded was because the pitching staff hating pitching to him? That was almost 6 years ago. He supposedly has gotten better at calling games, but he's not coming here. I think the big reason he was traded was Freddy Garcia was coming back in the deal.

QUOTE (G&T @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 08:44 AM) Yeah, I see what you are saying and I agree. IMO, teams still trade with KW because he is the only guy willing to trade prospects these days because he doesn't over value mediocre talent. Even if the guys aren't very good, they are young and cheap and can fill the roster. That's probably why we see deals with KC and Oakland so often. Also if you look at the 3 DFA'd guys and the trades they were involved in, Jeremy Reed was 23, had just hit over .400 as a 22 year old in AA and went with Miguel Olivo, the White Sox starting C at the time and Mike Morse, for Freddy Garcia, a guy about 100 games away from being a FA, and a guy with some issues off the field and on the previous season. So, at the time, if this was Marinerstalk.com I think the majority would have been in favor of the deal. Broadway went for Raul Castro, so that was pretty much bust for bust, and Kotsay was DFA'd by Boston. Everyone knew at the time Boston was exactly the perfect spot for BA, but they were going to have to pay Kotsay if they released him so they got a part. What is sad is a lot of these guys popped up on top Sox prospects lists. That has to change. Beckham is a start. Hopefully these other guys continue the improvement but we won't know until they prove they are solid major leaguers. I do think guys with scouting backgrounds who post on websites are looking at the Sox guys in a lesser light, and maybe its because of all the busts. Keith Law doesn't have much good to say about any Sox prospect and the other guy on espn.com covering the AZ Fall League says Danks is very overrrated. Maybe he is or maybe he's taking a calculated guess basing it at least partially on all the failed prospects that have come up through the White Sox system.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) For my B-Day, my sister gave me two tickets to a Beer and Bacon Tasting and a bar on the north side. That was available on groupon.com last week. I must say I do like beer and I do like bacon.

Next time anyone wants to use minor league stats as proof a guy will be a MLB stud, just check out Jeremy Reed's numbers. As a 22 year old in Birmingham, the guy hit .409 with an OPS 1.065, with speed and you know he's a solid defensive player. Then he comes up to Seattle, hits close to .400 in about 60 AB and then just tanks. At least Greg Walker can't be blamed.

BA is available.

I'm just as shocked KW couldn't get anything for him as I am by his basic release. Maybe he has an injury and KW would have to disclose it in order to move him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 03:42 PM) Well I was unaware we had another Alexei or Gordo waiting around to play 3b. How did I manage to miss that? One of them was playing 3B. Keep Getz at 2B, I don't think the team is weaker and you have $12-13 million more to spend the next 3 seasons.

Very odd. There has to be more to the story. How do you go from what your manager called you most valuable pitcher because of his versatility to non-tendered over a few hundred thousand?

QUOTE (ozzfest @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:46 PM) No reason for bringing this up, other than the fact that I want him to be our backup. Anyone agree? I would love to have him back, but I think he'd be looking for more than 150 AB.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:27 PM) Yeah but that CF with a sweet glove is also one of the best right fielders in the game and despite what some have said in this thread there is incredible value in that. I'd have no problem moving Rios to right if we acquired another very good centerfielder, the more outfield defense the better. We're likely to end up with a bantam speedster somewhere on the diamond for the purposes of leading off, I'd rather he be capable of playing an above average centerfield than be limited to left or DH (frightening Podsednik scenario). A run saved on defense is equal to a run scored on offense. If the Mariners had any kind of offense last year they could have made it work. Of course, that's just what I assume will happen. Personally I want the 2 best possible baseball players to fill the 2 final spots in the lineup regardless of their ability to hit leadoff. Put together the best 25 man roster that the budget will allow and figure out how the pieces fit later. If Rios is the Rios of the past 2 season offensively, you need a much bigger bat than Brett Gardner roaming next to him in OF at USCF.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:39 PM) Maybe KW thinks Carrasco is going to regress this season. His performance last season seemed beyond his capabilities IMO. Having said that, I'd love to have Hudson begin the season in AAA starting with Carrasco as our long-man. However, I'd much rather spend my money on a possible dominant setup man in Putz than a long-man in Carrasco, especially when we have a very capable replacement in Hudson waiting in the wings. I think its probably likely he will regress, however, some team has got to be willing to give you a bag of balls or something and take a chance on him. If he gets $1.5 in arb, only $300k is guaranteed. That they haven't announced it yet tells me they are either trying to get him signed and using the non tender threat to get his price down, or were never considering non tendering him, or are currently soliciting offers.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) $14 million for a starting player over 3 years. If that's going to handicap us for the near future, we're in big trouble. As for Atkins, I never mentioned he would be better or worse than Johnson. I didn't mean to comment on your Atkins idea at all, actually. According to Gonzalez, they were several hundred thousand apart with Carrasco, so I'm thinking unless Teahan improves on his mediocre offensive numbers and his bottom 5 in baseball UZR rating at 3B, his $5.5 million hit in 2012 can easily come into play, as will his salary next year. People are already b****ing about the $5 million Linebrink is making. In fact, it may be more money than the Sox spend on the starting SS and 2B combined the next 3 years.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 02:12 PM) If it were my money, I'd sign DJ, and make the harder decisions (who stays and who goes in the bullpen) as a result of what we see in spring training. Much smarter IMO to enter spring training dealing from a position of strength in the pen. Especially since we're not dealing with huge numbers salary-wise. That's what I say, and remember, it won't even be a guaranteed contract. So either trade him now or keep him around for spring training. You never know what may happen.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) it may just be that they don't think he can replicate his numbers from last year. They may not want to lose a guy with an arm like Santos and they will try him in the mop up role with Cooper working with him at the major league level. But you would still think they could get something for him. A guy like Carrasco might actually get a better contract being non tendered than offered arbitration.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) .289/.389/.383/.772 Not quite .850. In order to get up to .850 with a ~.100 iso he'd either have to put up a .470 OBP or hit .370. And Owens' minor league numbers are: .296/.364/.368/.732 Everyone is talking about his glove. The White Sox spent a ton of money on a CF with a sweet glove. The Sox need offense people.

QUOTE (PWSox87 @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) He's among the fastest 2 or 3 guys in the majors, possibly the fastest and that translates to stolen bases bc he's good at that too. He's worth about a half win to a full win on the bases alone (a win = 10 runs above average). In the field, he is among the best center fielders in mlb. All the fielding numbers say he's top 3 CF minus his whack arm. He's pretty much a slap hitter, ops'd around .850 for his minor league career but that doesn't seem reachable in the bigs bc he can be over powered by fastballs. Overall 5 years of control of him would appeal to me a lot and I think the yanks under value him bc so much of his value is tied to his defense. he looks to be comfortably a 2.5-3.5 win player, which means he is a legit starting OF and upgrade for the white sox. I don't know where you got your minor league OPS numbers but Baseball Reference has them a lot lower than you posted. In fact is minor league numbers are eerily similar to one Jerry Owens.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) I have seen quite a few posts reflecting this sort of attitude around here over the past few weeks. While we would all love for the White Sox to be major players for the marque free agents, the fact remains that we have a majority of our payroll tied up in the pitching staff, and Konerko and Rios. We all knew going into this offseason that the only way to add impact players would be through trades, not FA signings. Apparently, we are not quite matching up, as of today, with those teams looking to shed payroll or rebuild by trading those high-impact players. That leaves 1 of 2 options: sign some guys off the scrap heap and hope we get lucky with a few of them, or stand pat and go with what we have. Knowing the reaction we would have if we stood pat, it appears to me that the White Sox are taking the better of the two options and at least trying to get lucky with a few down on their luck players. And that's fine with me. This offseason does not seem so different to me than the offseason leading into 05', and neither does the reaction amongst Sox fans seen much different. That's not to say the results will be the same, just that sometimes adding spare parts can go a long way towards building a well-rounded team. I completely understand the desire to complain with each new non-impact player we take interest in, but we should also not be shocked either. I get the feeling around here that people are expecting a Matt Holliday signing or something... Finally, these moves do nothing to damage our future, which is perhaps the most important thing. If they don't work out, it's not money committed long-term and allows us to go in a different direction in 2011-2013. ? $14 million was committed to Mark Teahan, and why would Garrett Atkins be a worse choice than Kelly Johnson or Brett Gardner?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 08:59 AM) Yeah... when was the last time you can remember picking up a guy in the draft, and keeping him on the 25-man? I seem to remember a long history of passing. When Hawk was the GM, he selected Bobby Bonilla in the rule 5. He later traded him back to Pittsburgh for Jose DeLeon, who eventually was traded for Lance Johnson.