Dick Allen

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 07:30 PM) Sure it is. You either had to pay the full invoice or lose your place - whether or not you did it as a partial refund after or not is semantics. Either way, you had to pay the amount, or lose your place. Here is what it said: so, I could ask to get a refund or not ask for tickets, and either way, lose my place. No, because if you don't buy playoff tickets, there is no refund. Penalizing customers by making them buy tickets for games that may not be played is not a business practice MLB wants to be in, and if the Sox made the playoffs, they would have no problem selling those seats anyway. You should talk to your rep. I did. I'm getting an invoice for half my total due in November. At WSI there were several people that verified it with their reps as well. Usually, I just pay it, but I just didn't believe this year and even though I think they probably will raise prices again, and I will renew anyway, I didn't want to be held hostage again. The only way you lose your place is paying for playoff tickets and asking for a refund. Skipping the playoff option did not affect your status.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 07:35 PM) Your logic is strange here. So you think that bringing in SOME more ticket holders (debatable how many) will equal NOT having as many accounts locked up as they would have WITHOUT the playoffs? Playoff tickets meant more people in, its quite clear. The only question is how many more, and of course we can only guess at that. Its not like last year when all the accounts paid up. This year I believe less than half did not. My account was one that did not. When you have 15k locked in like they did last offseason, it afforded them the opportunity price-wise to do things they may not be able to do with 5000-7000 a game locked in. The renewal rate, even if prices remain the same won't be nearly as high as last season. although I agree with you if they didn't have a playoff invoice, it would be even lower. The people who paid the invoice were going to re-new anyway. What would be interesting is how many accounts asked for refunds. You may lose your place in line but the line is going to be a little shorter if you have to go to the back.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 07:37 PM) I was messin' with you, man. I guess we can just agree to disagree. I don't feel like arguing today. I love our projected rotation. They alone give me hope for next year. I totally agree about the bullpen. I've just recently come to the conclusion that a bad bullpen = you ain't sniffin' October. I agree with the rotation. I've stated Peavy is KW's greatest trade ever. It will be interesting to see what happens this winter.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 07:28 PM) 10 games, huh? I take it all back. I'd rather have the Brewers rotation. Its a small sample size, but Peavy has been lights out and before yesterday no other pitcher won a game since he had been in the rotation. It wasn't like they have been playing the best teams in the league and they were at home in must win games. Its going to take more than that rotation to win a championship. Think about it, Hudson will be a rookie, probably in the bullpen until somebody breaks down. Garcia can be a decent 5th starter. Floyd, hopefully his hip is something very minor. Danks and Peavy look solid, but if Buerhle has to keep being held back, at the end of the year what happens? The bullpen will be a key. Dotel has been told he won't be back. Jenks is up in the air. Thornton is solid. Pena has potential. Linebrink can come back. Hudson could be a solid piece. If the Sox bullpen is bad, they are screwed no matter who is in the rotation.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 07:22 PM) what the hell is going to happen with Josh Fields? Is he coming back to play 1b next year? Ozzie was talking the other day about the defense saying at the beginning of the year he was playing guys who couldn't catch a cold, and he said he wouldn't name names. Fields is one of those guys. He can homer his next 20 AB, he's done with the Sox.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 07:19 PM) How does one not get Richard Simmons like giddy when thinking about a Peavy/Buehrle/Danks/Floyd/Garcia/Hudson starting rotation next year? Because that's been the rotation the past 10 games or so and nothing much has changed. Its a nice start though.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 03:29 PM) This was expressed to us as season ticket holders via letter and email - in order to guarantee your 2010 season tickets in the same location, you had to buy playoff tickets. If you don't, yeah, MAYBE you can still be a season holder, but you lose your place in line. Not true.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 02:38 PM) So here is something to chew on for all the people who tend to think that contending for a division title but not winning it is no better than spending the season mired in the cellar... The Sox sent out playoff ticket invoices in late August, back when the team was still in it. Season ticket holders had to pay in advance for the tickets, or else not only not get to buy the tickets, but also lose their "place" in seniority and have to start over the next season. This playoff ticket invoice was well over half of the total cost of a season plan. Any games not played, becomes your 2010 deposit. So, even if some season holders were hesitant, most of them will have paid, to not miss the potential playoff ticket opportunity, and to not lose out for the next season. This will ultimately result in a much higher renewal rate than if the team was far enough out that no playoff invoices were sent. Secondarily, the team does sell some pro-rated season plans in-season, and they were offering some post-season tickets if you went in during the season - and again, until early September, the team appeared to still be in the chase. So, the fact that the team was in it for as long as they were, means a much higher number of 2010 seaon holders than if they hadn't been. Just something to consider. Actually not paying for playoff tickets did not lose seniority. What lost seniority was paying for playoff tickets but asking for a refund for any unused money. The Sox unfortunately fell apart right when the deposit was due and a lot of accounts did not send in playoff money which is a change from last year. Not only will the Sox not have the extra playoff gates, they won't have as many accounts locked into next season which can hurt them if they want to raise prices again. If they could have won a couple more on the roadtrip from hell, they would have had a lot more of a commitment.

I don't always agree with Ozzie, but here's his quote the morning after, and I think its one of his best quotes ever: I have seven or eight (young players)," he said, somewhat calmer than 12 hours before. "The problem we have in baseball is that the people who run this thing, they let players do whatever they want, and that's why they do whatever they (bleeping) want to do. "My job is to teach those kids that's not the way to do it. I never tell my players what to do or how to prepare yourself, but when you lose a game and all of a sudden you look around and they are watching another thing, that means you are teaching the kids, 'Don't worry about it, this is the big leagues. If we lose a game, who cares? We are out of the pennant race.' "It's my job and I criticize everybody because a lot of people say baseball has changed. No, [the] people who run this game make baseball change. I'm very old school. I have to teach these kids it's not the way we should handle this stuff. If I let that thing go away, then I don't have the power and the right to tell the kids in the future what to do because it was like, 'Well, two years ago, you let them do it.' " Guillen, as a player, once took a bat to a clubhouse television. "I grew up a different way," he said. "I grow up, when you lose, it hurts. Respect the game, respect your teammates, respect people paying. "Look at how many people walked out of (Saturday's game) disappointed. And we don't respect the people that just watched our game, and be embarrassed about the way we got beat? That's my problem. I don't have a problem with the players, I've got a problem with baseball and baseball doesn't handle it the right way."

He has wins at 2 levels of A ball, AA, AAA and the major leagues all in one season. It has to be very rare.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) Because Brett Gardner is REALLY good in CF. Melkey Cabrera isn't half-bad himself. And neither has the power to play a corner OF spot. Swish does. In the Swisher Traded thread you said Melky Cabrera was a joke.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Greg, you were saying the same stuff to us in 2007 about not worrying about losing games because we shouldn't care about the draft. I can't believe you're still saying the same stuff after the Beckham experience. Here's the question I have about the draft and Beckham. Are you or anyone sure the Sox would have drafted Beckham had they had a higher pick and someone else was available? I think the Sox had the worst record in baseball at one point in August that year, but had a decent September. If the Sox had the 4th pick, or 1st maybe they pick someone else. I really don't know. Maybe they had Beckham #1 on their board all along. I think he will be #1 on that board 20 years from now. They were 15-12 in Sept. that year. Maybe they would have drafted Smoak. He'll probably be a pretty good player, but I think Beckham is and always will be better.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) I’m not sure how big of an assumption it would be to think Swish would bounce back this year considering, you know, HE’S BOUNCING BACK, RIGHT NOW. Every measurable statistic said that Swish was unlucky last year. His BABIP was absurd. His defense in CF is adequate, and is offset my ability to get on base, and drive in runners from both sides of the plate I’d find the argument that he shouldn’t have been in CF this year, a lot more appealing if his main competition wasn’t Jerry Owens, Brian Anderson, and Dewayne Wise. Also, I don’t think it should be to Swisher’s detriment that he only stared performing after Nady got hurt. Nady got hurt, Swish played well. s*** happens. The Yankees got him as insurance, it paid off in spades. I can tell you from 1st hand experience that they love him out here. How do you like Marquez, Betemit, and Nunez? And you heard here until they got rid of him was how great a guy Swisher was and the Dirty Thirty crap and all of that. Explain his splits then? He's hitting .222 with little power at home where the Yankees have set a record for most homers at home in their history. Perhaps, and its just speculation, the scrutiny, the microscope, bothers him. He goes on the road, he's not even a second or tenth thought with that roster and he plays really well. With the Sox, he would still be expected to do a lot of things, and Chicago isn't Oakland media-wise. The bottom line is I'd rather have Rios than Swisher, and even if Swisher were here and was able to hit .249 like he's hitting now, the Sox would not have won anything as Pods would likely not have returned either. Sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Your boy Milton Bradley, who you want KW desperately to acquire, was missed so much by Texas when they let him go for nothing, they contended for a playoff spot. The Cubs suspended him and they went 7-1. Swisher's act was old, and he teammates knew when he sulked, it was all just an act. I don't blame him for sulking. I want guys on the roster who want to play. But he's a phony and had other issues. His leaving didn't hurt the Sox at all, even if Marquez, Betemit and Nunez don't ever do a thing. Also keep in mind, Viciedo is part of this deal. I take it you are very high on him.

Detroit is averaging over 31k per home date with 7 games to go that have to be close to, if not, sold out. If they get some playoff game gates, I think the stories of their dire finances, especially considering who their owner is, will be highly overblown.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 12:40 PM) I was at the game last night, id say 50% were Tiger fans. I agree, if not more.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) Because Brett Gardner is REALLY good in CF. Melkey Cabrera isn't half-bad himself. And neither has the power to play a corner OF spot. Swish does. If Nady hadn't have been injured, Swisher would have been riding the bench. Considering how awesome you think he is offensively, wouldn't the minor defensive upgrade you give Gardner and Cabrera be offset by all of Dirty Thirty's awesomeness. Swisher is a bad CF. The White Sox came to the conclusion before they traded Swisher that he would not be playing CF anymore. You are also assuming Swisher would have bounced back in Chicago when in NY he's about 15th on the totem pole, and in Oakland, not many players get too much scrutiny. Swisher coming back would have been a whole different circumstance and there is really no way of knowing what he would do. We do know when the Sox could have used him last year, except for June, he was awful.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 10:47 AM) Here’s my 2nd point. You never trade a player when his value is at its absolute minimum. His value wasn't at a minimum. They received 3 average at best guys and full salary relief, which this day and age is something. The Yankees picked up Hinske from Pittsburgh but the Pirates had to eat some of his very small deal. And to say never trade a player when their value is at their minimum suggests keeping very bad players on your roster. That's not smart.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 09:38 AM) In no particular order . . . There was strong support around here for the team to shut down almost every player with any value to avoid injury, see what the youngsters can do, etc. While it may be a nice indicator of the competitiveness of the players, some of these guys we already know how competitive they are, especially when there is something to really compete for. So to label, for example, PK or AJ as quitters is an awful stretch. I prefer a player who is competitive when there is something to actually win, then lays down, over a player who is the same half ass all the time. Young players better be all out all the time. Games are won on the field. Obviously you paid no money to watch last night's game. The people who did deserve a better effort, and if you are so unmoved by getting embarrassed that you can't wait to watch a college football game, I hope they find the door for you. This is a player's job. I don't know who was watching games and Konerko's quote that the TVs were already on, indicate to me that the players actually had them on during last night's game as many are in the clubhouse during the game. Perhaps its being blown out of proportion a little bit, but Ozzie has every right to be pissed off. I prefer guys that hate to lose myself, not guys who say, well we can't win so who cares. I hope incidents like this help management weed out the riff raff.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 09:11 AM) I don't think you can look as it like that. I think you have to look at the trades seperately. If you look at it collectively, Flowers, and Peavy came from Javy(Flowers through direct trade, Viciedo probably was coming no matter what, and we got money for Peavy). For Swisher, you can say we got Rios indirectly, Betemit, Nunez, and Marquez. I'd take Swisher out of all those guys. I wouldn't. Rios has been an All Star, can steal bases and play CF, and won't strike out 150 times if he plays every day. Money-wise, I think Rios contract is something I would rather not have, but as baseball players, I'd take Rios over Swisher any day of the week. He's a lot better player than he's shown. Its funny, it appears you want to throw out Swisher's year last year as basically a fluke, but take Rios' performance in a month and a half in a Sox uniform as how he will always perform. Rios is a good player. He's better than Aaron Rowand ever was. Vazquez was a salary dump. It freed up funds for Peavy. They couldn't have pursued Peavy is Vazquez were still here.

I was all for those trades so I can't rip them even if eventually they are mistakes, however, there's no guarantee Vazquez would be doing for the Sox what he's doing for the Braves. In fact there's probably a guarantee he would have been as bad as ever. Swisher wasn't going to play CF so he had no spot,and I still think you aren't going to want to be paying him what you will be paying in the next couple of years. Nunez and Flowers may pan out to be good. They claim they spend Swisher's money on Viciedo and I find it hard to believe Peavy and Rios, both of whom I would take in a heartbeat over the 2 dealt, (although I'm no fan of Rios' contract) would be here if the trades weren't made. The White Sox actually upgraded even if none of the players received in the trades ever pan out. Would you rather have Viciedo, Flowers, Peavy and Rios or Richard, Russell, Poreda, Swisher, and Vazquez. I'll take the former.

The day after the JR firing up of the troops for next season speech. Beautiful. Ozzie has every right to be pissed off, and frankly shouldn't be a manager if it didn't bother him. Maybe its makes no sense to some because the Sox can't win anything this year. Eliminated or not, you still have to play with pride and especially against a team that is still in it, have to be bothered by a poor performance. Its kind of like when they flash to the dugout during a loss and you see a bunch of guys laughing it up. This is their job. They get paid to play at their highest level. They get paid more in six months than most get paid in a lifetime. There's a time to watch football, but not right after blowing a 5 run lead and getting blown out to a team that is playing very meaningful games, in the clubhouse. They can all afford TIVO. BTW, 35k in attendance last night with no fireworks show. A lot of Detroit fans.

Ozzie in his postgame said the players were more concerned about their football teams than the baseball game. Seems to me a TV or 2 needs to be removed.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 09:48 PM) It's truly unbelievable how little accountability you place on the players. We've been told how many times that players quitting was something you would never see from an Ozzie Guillen managed team? I hope KW is serious and dumps whoever he believes quit no matter what their status with the team.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 08:31 PM) Seriously. If Tony Pena and Scott Linebrink are our main setup guys with Thornton as the closer, we're f***ed next year. In Sept. 2004 if someone told you Dustin Hermanson, Politte and Cotts would be the primary set up guys for Shingo until Shingo failed and Hermanson took over but he would hurt his back and some guy the Angels are about to waive would become the closer, what would you think? Relievers are different than any other player. I think it entirely possible Pena and Linebrink are actually good next year.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 09:41 PM) Any more details on Ozzie jawing with fans? Where were they? How long did it go on for? Did the announcers acknowledge it? Were they Sox or Tigers fans? I think it was a guy with a Granderson jersey.