Dick Allen

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 10:10 PM) I guess just talking in terms of mutual interest and years/$$. Besides that, I have no explanation. But that wouldn't be negotiation would it? At least not "deep" negotiation.

Can someone explain to me how a team can be "deep in negotiations" yet has not made an offer?

QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 07:34 PM) BA had more AB's and a higher batting average against righties last year. If the options were mediocre retread, Owens or BA, I would love for them to give BA the same opportunity they gave him in 2006 when he wasn't ready for it at least mentally. It wouldn't surprise me if the annual search for a CF came to an end. My only concern with BA is he seems to get hurt a lot if he plays.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 04:07 PM) He'd only be as slow as PK. And I think there is a good hitter underneath there. By no means is he a long term solution probably, but for a year or two, I think he'd do for cheap. The rest of the 1B market is thin. I'd still rather have Kila. If KW unloaded Paulie, and I think that it won't happen, Swisher I am sure is available. With the way the market has dropped on players his level, his contract isn't the "bargain" it once was, even if he regains most of his Oakland form. KW probably could get him back for lower rated prospects than he acquired.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 03:57 PM) I personally don't see a lot of value in the guys he got from the Yankees. Now if he trades Dye or Paulie he has to go out and fill that hole instead of using Swisher in one of the spots. It was a salary dump and Betimet isn't that bad. I wouldn't be surprised if Nick Swisher never plays a game for the Yankees.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 03:57 PM) How is that a la KW? I don't see the Sox getting a big bat from their system this year. 2010, 2011, sure - Beckham, Allen, etc. But who do you bring up now that is a powerful offensive player for 1B/DH or OF? KW said he's filling his holes at P, 3B, 2B and CF from within.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 03:48 PM) Yankees sign Teixera. See Diamond Club thread. Angels now definitely in seach of a bat. According to Rosenthal, they are going to find the bat, a la KW, from within.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 10:41 AM) Basically the whole off-season is in a flux right now until Teixeira signs. After that, I think things are definitely going to pick up, and it could make for a very interesting January around here, to see if we sign the likes of Abreu etc. He's supposed to decide today. Indications are its Boston.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 12:08 PM) Playing a full season, I think BA could hit 15-20 HR, but he'd also hit .210 I think with a sub-Uribe OBP. Kotsay if healthy would give you a .330-.340 OBP, though only marginal power (maybe 10 HR). Anderson gives you very good defense, but looking at recent years, I think Kotsay gives you good (but not as good) D as well. Anderson could spell Kotsay defensively like he did Griffey. Given that, I'd rather have Kotsay. But you of course take the chance on health, which is why its good to have BA around as a backup plan. Interesting looking at the defensive stats for Kotsay and Anderson in 2008 - they played very similar number of games, though Kotsay played 50% more innings. They both had 1.000 FPct, Kotsay had a BETTER RF (I was surprised at that), and had 3 assists to BA's 0 (small sample size there, of course). Anyway, I agree BA is better defensively, and stats aren't great for defense. But Kotsay is no slouch out there, even now. I think every year you don't give BA a chance increases the likelihood he will never amount to much. If you're going to give a chance to guys like Fields and Lillibridge, BA has earned his shot too. They threw him into a very tough spot in 2006, although he could have handled it better. Since then he has been pretty much blown off. I have no problem with him being a 4th OF if they get someone legit. If it were for Kotsay, if I were BA's agent, I would tell KW its time to move BA on.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 11:51 AM) So, instead of finding numbers from a couple seasons back... how about you tell us what your opinion is on the topic? Which is better of these two scenarios, in your opinion: --Anderson/Owens in CF --Kotsay in CF, with Anderson/Owens as plan B Sorry, I'm just point out Kotsay isn't the OBP machine you suggested. I would rather have Anderson and Owens. I like BA, and don't like Owens, but Erstad was a mistake, and Kotsay would be making the same mistake twice IMO. He isn't the GG quality CF he used to be. Doesn't run. Doesn't hit with power and will most likely wind up on the DL. Unless KW is going to get a legit CF, he might as well see what BA can do. If he had 500 AB last year he probably would have had 20 + homers and we all know what he can do defensively. Why banish him to the bench for a guy who isn't as good? Not saying BA is a star in the making, but there's no doubt in my mind if he played everyday he would have better numbers than Kotsay. BTW, Kotsay and Erstad have identical career OBP. Strange it would be exactly the same.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 11:45 AM) Erstad's OBP the year prior to signing with the Sox was .279. Kotsay was .340 in ATL, .286 with BOS in very limited at bats there. And I was making a comparison, not saying Kotsay was some huge OBP guy. I know you want to focus in on any specific thing that doesn't fit, but, look again at my main point here: Kotsay with Anderson as a backup plan > Anderson/Owens in CF for the Sox, as long as Kotsay can be had for fairly cheap. Its low risk for a possible high reward, and if he can't stay healthy or is truly done, then you are back where you were anyway. One thing that does concern me though about Kotsay, aside from health, is the dropoff in SLG after 2006. .279 also was Kotsay's OBP with Oakland in 2007. He has back problems.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 10:46 AM) Erstad had missed games due to injuries, a lot of 3 of 4 seasons prior to going to the Sox. Kotsay has had those issues 2 seasons, but his numbers were still decent last year, and he's an OBP machine that Erstad isn't. But in any case, I am not saying its ideal - I am saying I think that's likely to happen. And remember too, Dye came with that injury issue as well. KW likes those types of moves. Erstad was similar, not the same. OBP machine? He's got a .337 career OBP and hasn't been able to match that the past 4 seasons.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 10:37 AM) Kotsay actually had decent numbers for Atlanta this season FWIW; .289/.340/.418 Not saying he's a great option, but if he came cheap, I'd probably rather him than Owens if he could put up a line like that again. Excellent plate discipline also (45K's in over 400 AB's). He also was brutal with Boston and doesn't play defense like he used to.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 10:39 AM) . Also note that he came in to close out games often, started to give up hits/runs, and was pulled for someone else who would close it for him. I don't think that's true. I think if it were it would count as a blown save and he only had 2 of those in his White Sox career.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 23, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) As I said in another thread, I think the chances of a Konerko to LAA trade are increasing by the day. I see the Sox probably doing two or three things this offseason that they haven't done yet, from this list: --Trade PK to LAA for Figgins and/or pitching --Trade Dye, possibly to CIN, for pitching --Sign Mark Kotsay to play CF --Acquiring a relatively cheap pitcher with some question marks to compete for the rotation There would be a revolt. Kotsay is Erstad revisited. A good centerfielder several years ago.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 20, 2008 -> 04:59 PM) That's not a very good measure for closers. When used properly, Jenks will almost always come in just for the 9th, or the closing inning. The few times he didn't are aberrant and would skew the data oddly. That measure is really only useful for non-closing relievers. For a closer, the ultimate measure is Save % (not gross total), and then behind that are your normal performance numbers - ERA, WHIP, K/9, etc. If that's the case, Shingo should never have lost his job. He was 19-20 in save opportunities in 2004 and 8-9 in 2005 when he lost the job. I don't think there's a person around who thinks Shingo shouldn't have lost his job as the closer. I also don't think anyone is arguing Jenks' effectiveness to this point. The question is how long will it last?

Ironically, Arn Tellem is one of JR's favorite agents to deal with.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 22, 2008 -> 11:58 AM) Broadway/McCulloch taken back-to-back in the first round (even when you consider where we were drafting) was unacceptable and pathetic. It's really amazing what we've been able to do this decade considering what our farm has produced (So long Duane Shaffer. You are not missed). Ellsbury was available when the Sox drafted the "safe" pick in Broadway. 2004 might have been a bigger disaster. They picked Fields, Gio, Lumsden, Whisler and Lucy in the first 2 rounds passing on Pence and Pedroia. They also selected Fields, Gio and Lumdsen before Huston Street. They have had their shot at good players, but for the longest time had a problem identifying them.

Here's BA's top 10 White Sox prospects in 2006: 1. Ryan Sweeney, of 2. Josh Fields, 3b 3. Lance Broadway, rhp 4. Kyle McCulloch, rhp 5. Charlie Haeger, rhp 6. Aaron Cunningham, of 7. Adam Russell, rhp 8. Lucas Harrell, rhp 9. Matt Long, rhp 10. Chris Carter, 1b Granted, the White Sox weren't loaded with prospects, but prospect rankings mean didley. I don't see any excitement over Broadway or McCullough both first round picks rated #3 and #4 in the Sox system in 2006.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 22, 2008 -> 07:10 AM) Community college for 1 year. Marquez started in the minors at age 19. Considering Garland at Marquez's age had pitched more innings in the major leagues than Marquez had pitched as a professional, I don't think comparing their minor league ERA's would be an accurate measure of what Marquez will do. I hope he's as good as you think. I believe, at least for 2009, its a pipedream.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 10:41 PM) Let's see... Players/Round selected/Minor league ERA and # of seasons in the minors Garland 1st round (3.55 in 5 minor league seasons) Danks 1st round (4.20 in 4 seasons) Floyd 1st round (3.69 in 6 seasons) Masset 8th round (4.57 in 7 minor league seasons) Grilli 24th round (4.51 in 8 seasons) Glover 15th round (4.75 in 12 seasons) And Marquez....... 1st round (supplemental) The 41st player picked in the entire 2004 draft Minor league career ERA... 3.60 in 5 minor league seasons Garland, Danks, Floyd were taken out of HS. Marquez went to college.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 04:55 PM) OMG... I don't BELIEVE you're attempting this comparison. Marquez is a power arm. He has a 94-95mph fastball and a 90-93mph power sinker. As pitchers go... Wes Whisler is a great hitter. Period. I'm not comparing their tools, just their seasons, but Marquez is not a power pitcher. Here's BPs scouting report after his "stellar" 2007. Marquez was the Yankees' supplemental-round pick in the 2004 draft. He throws a sinking fastball and, given his declining strikout rates, seems to want to take the Chien-Ming Wang path to success. It's a grand idea but for two problems: his ground-ball rate took a step back last year, and there's only one Wang. Marquez will be among the team's starting prospects to be considered for the major league pen this spring, but will likely start the season in the Triple-A rotation.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 04:17 PM) You said Marquez's 2007 in AA was nothing special. If being the starting pitcher in the AA Allstar game is nothing special, not to mention his other numbers, then I'd like to know what a decent year in AA would look like. His 2007 was pretty similar to Wes Whisler's 2008. Whisler did his in a AAA bandbox while Marquez was in AA. They both were drafted the same year. Marquez was picked 41st, Whisler 53rd. Whisler was available to any team for 50k this offseason. Every team passed. He's not much of a prospect. There are a lot of players that have had decent years in AA and 2 seasons later weren't contributing at the major league level. He did have a decent year in 2007, but it wasn't eye-poppingly impressive. I'm glad that you and a few others are optimistic about how he will pitch at the major league level in 2009. I hope you are right. I just don't see it. Check what Ian Kennedy did as his teammate in 2007. I don't think you'd trust him with a rotation spot in 2009.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 11:49 AM) well, whatever. You still need to tone down your posts. I wish yours were laughable, but they are more annoying and grating. The ignore button is your friend.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 11:37 AM) He was suggesting that people are throwing Marquez under the bus because they are less familiar with them than if he were a sox prospect.He wasn't saying he deserved slack because Richard was a White Sox draftee. Here's his quote: And even if I hadn't realized I was off base regarding Richard, he's a totally different situation from Marquez anyway. Clayton is a White Sox draftee. And we've had little to no success in developing our OWN pitchers. So at least I would have a somewhat decent arguement in my initial reaction, even if I hadn't changed my mind.