Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 10:39 AM) Let's back up...we haven't seen any offers or what's available to O-Cab, because his negotiations haven't been public like with Furcal. That doesn't mean he doesn't have any offers. We do know ONE team was willing to give Renteria, who's valued as a lesser player and was run out of DET on a rail essentially, an average of $9.25 milllion per season over two years. Of course, some GM's and "insiders" say that was a crazy move by SF and they were essentially bidding against themselves. We do know that Minnesota, Oakland, Baltimore, Cleveland and the Dodgers remain in the market for a SS, and possibly the Blue Jays. Oakland, Baltimore and the Dodgers look like good possibilities. We do know that Minnesota has passed on Blake at 3 years and $20 million, so they're more likely to want to make a move at SS OR trade Beltre for Delmon Young, who they've put on the market because of dissatisfaction with his attitude, defense, baserunning and lack of power. Rosenthal in an article a couple of days ago, said the Dodgers have very little interest in Cabrera. Oakland was going 4 years at $9 mill a year for Furcal. I'm guessing they would go shorter and cheaper for Cabrera. Remember only the studs of this FA class have been offered more than 2 years thus far. Cleveland isn't going to spend 8 figures on a SS. Baltimore? I really doubt it. The Blue Jays laid off front staff personnel. They aren't going to overpay a soon to be 35 year old SS. That leaves Minnesota. a few things, they are known to be as frugal as they come. They build from the farm and probably value low first rounders as much as anyone, let alone giving them to a division rival. Also , the reasons you say they don't like Delmon Young are are looking to move him, are ironically the same issues OC has according to many posts in this thread.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 10:01 AM) You can trade him earlier if you get his permission http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1114 But there is a big problem with that. There aren't teams that appear to want to pay him anything near what he gets in arbitration, plus he probably would refuse to go to a bad team. The teams looking for SS right now, are looking for cheaper options. When KW gets control, many teams will know if they are contending or not. You may find a spot for him, but only a contender, and they probably wouldn't give up anything at all, and might request the White Sox eat money, like they did with Ray Durham in order to get the great Jon Adkins. If they were willing to trade for him in January or February or whenever his salary is determined, they probably could sign him right now to a deal like that with perhaps an option. Face it, Cabrera from here on out, even if he remains a type A FA probably will never be offered arbitratiion again, unless a team wants to keep giving a 35 year old SS a raise.

Today is the day Cabrera has to make his decision. I read where the Dodgers have little interest in him. I also read something where a baseball executive was astounded by what Renteria got with the Giants saying he couldn't have received more than 2 years at $6 mill a year anywhere else. I predict he accepts arbitration. I just hope if he does accept and people here are pissed about it, their anger isn't directed at Cabrera. I don't like the any guy any more than anyone here, but if he accepts the White Sox offer, he has done nothing wrong. It wouldn't be acting like an asshole.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 04:55 PM) Perhaps he should be less slappy and hit for more power. Why is it when a runner is on base he only distracts the pitcher, not the hitter? Why should Cabrera get credit for those SB's that were on strikeouts if he was only running because Ozzie was calling for a hit and run? It's kinda like a consolation prize. Cabrera scored 93 runs. Podsednik was considered MVP-worthy when he scored 80.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 12:40 PM) Khalil Greene is a defensive whiz with incredible power potential/production (when he's away from Petco). Please explain his .542 road OPS in 2008. As long as you're ripping Cabrera for being "underwhelming" in 2008, I'm sure you'll have a reason for the absolutely pathetic numbers Greene put up away from Petco. Juan Uribe has gotten on base at a better clip than Mr. Greene the past 2 seasons.

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 12:13 PM) Bobby Crosby and Khalil Greene are underwhelming major league shortstops. Orlando Cabrera is not. And ironically there have been posts on this board in favor of acquiring either of the names mentioned.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 09:01 AM) For everyone clamoring for OC to return, you fail to realize that this wasn't in the plans that KW had. Thus, who knows what other deals he wanted to make will be impossible due to the financial ramifications if OC returns. I assume that the Swisher and Javy trades weren't made with OC returns in mind. For sure. It makes it even more silly he actually has to sweat this out, all for 2 draft picks chances are will not amount to anything. If he does refuse it, KW should thank his lucky stars and use the money OC would have received, draft 2 guys who slipped because of signability issues and pay them both over slot.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 07:08 AM) You could say "they suck/ed" about 1/2 the players the White Sox have brought in over the last ten years...I'll highlight some particular names for you. Contreras D. Hermanson Politte Thornton Jenks Marte Uribe Gavin Floyd Alexei Ramirez Esteban Loaiza El Duque Tadahito Iguchi Jermaine Dye (not that he sucked, just was a big risk coming off injuries) Javier Vazquez Scott Podsednik Octavio Dotel Miguel Olivo Sure, there will always be plenty of Julio Ramirezes and DeAngelo Jimenezes to go around, Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal, etc., but we have a pretty darn good track record of maximizing the potential of many of the prospects/suspects and undervalued veterans we've acquired in recent years. Sure, Nick Swisher was a pretty big disappointment, but he wasn't a big enough problem to keep up from winning the division, thanks to the likes of DeWayne Wise. Of that entire list, very few have had sustained success. Dye has, but he at least had a track record earlier in his career, and Jenks. Other than that, except for Ramirez, each has for a time sucked as a member of the White Sox. Some, like Hermanson could be from injury, some just went back to sucking.

Furcal hasn't ruled out joining the A's, but he wasn't willing to take a paycut to do it. While the A's were willing to give him the four-year deal he desired, the proposal didn't top $10 million per season. With the Giants also perhaps out of the mix, Furcal is left without an obvious suitor at the moment. He'll get his money, but he might have to settle for three years. As for the A's, they'll begin looking elsewhere for upgrades. They need at least one starter -- Randy Johnson is a possibility -- and they could always add another big bat, perhaps even Adam Dunn. From rotoworld. Makes you wonder what kind of contract is available to OC.

"We saw an opportunity to acquire one of the best shortstops in the game and one of the smartest shortstops in the game. Somebody who can fit into the No. 2 spot in our lineup for 155 games,'' Chicago general manager Ken Williams said, adding the trade frees up money that could help the White Sox pull off another deal. -KW after getting OC a year ago. He has done nothing since to make him a back-up to the likes of Getz, Lillibridge and Nix.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 02:09 PM) Has the thread title changed recently or am I way behind? Cabrera has definetly excepted arb? I read that earlier. Last I heard he said there was a slight chance he'd accept.

QUOTE (G&T @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 08:03 AM) KW's idea of a 1 or 2 is different than most people's idea. He'll take 1 or 2 potential. Last year he called Floyd and Danks 1 and 2...and everyone laughed. He called Gio a #1 as well.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) I think for every post you've made criticizing KW for offering arbitration... there would be 5 posts criticizing him if we didn't and missed out on the picks. I didn't know that would influence KW's decision. Thanks for the insight. The only thing I've criticized is offering arbitration if you aren't prepared to have him come back. Obviously, its still possible he will. Ozzie doesn't seem to mind if he does.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:37 PM) 1) We signed Viciedo, Beckham and Danks....that, in and of itself, is more or less the equivalent of 3 first round draft picks, and two Top 10 draft picks in Beckham and Viciedo 2) KW and the scouting department, up until this last draft at least, have been much better at identifying undervalued but high upside players in other organizations, rather than drafting them out of HS or college 3) You add Marquez, Jimenez, Nix, Lillibridge, Nunez, Flowers, Gilmore and Santos Rodriguez, that's two more first rounders right there, and lots of upside/potential, especially from Flowers...whatever happens, the world will not end over these draft picks. I mean, we traded Ray Durham for Jon Adkins and lost a draft pick there (largely because KW and JR felt that the compensation system was going to be changed that offseason, so they would theoretically get nothing back and they also wanted to see Willie Harris at 2B, so they saved a couple of million in salary as well). You have made my point that offering the arbitration if you really don't want him, is way too risky for a couple of draft picks.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:36 PM) OK.... help me out here. Is your solution to this problem? (a) we shouldn't have offered Cabrera arbitration at all (B) KW should have just kept his mouth shut and not said he'd ride the bench © other (describe) As I stated earlier, way before arbitration had to be offered, if the White Sox didn't want Cabrera on the team, especially at the price his arbitration status will bring, they should not offer him arbitration. With the current economy, his arb figure is too much of a risk for a supplemental draft pick and a low first or high second round selection. I also believe KW shouldn't have said what he said. Ozzie said something totally different today.

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:01 PM) Offering arbitration was the right move. If it backfires, Cabrera can still be moved - even later in the offseason. All these teams that are saying they don't need shortstops or are "seriously considering signing Adam Everett" might start panicking when they get to spring training and see some of these guys hit. Cabrera is still a top 15 shortstop. He can't be traded until June 15 without his consent. The teams looking at Adam Everett aren't looking to add the salary figure Cabrera will net from arbitration. So he will go to a place where he wants, the White Sox will get no draft picks, and will have to eat salary assuming of course, he isn't as good as Chris Getz, Brent Lillibridge and (gulp) Jayson Nix, as KW claims.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:56 AM) Rickey. Not only does he have the credentials but his speech would be epic If a voter doesn't put Rickey on their ballot, they should have their voting rights stripped.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) I am pretty neutral about Cabrera, but KW didn't make him less attractive on the open market. What he did was ensure the Sox benefited in some way - this being the draft picks- when OC signed with anothet team. It's just proper baseball bizness. So you are saying having it cost you a first round draft pick doesn't shrink OC's market in any way? Interesting. Its also proper baseball business to accept arbitration if it is offered, without snide remarks about how you are destined to the bench which, if true, we all know isn't based on baseball decisions. It looks like the Dodgers are after Jack Wilson now and he's willing to restructure his contract to get there, so the list of OC's possible suitors probably gets shorter, and the teams remaining probably are looking for bargains.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:16 AM) My guess is that Corky Miller is the new Paul Phillips... not the new Toby Hall. One thing is certain, it will be hard for the White Sox not to improve the production offensively and defensively of the back-up C position of the last 2 seasons.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:06 AM) The wonders of Bill Bavasi. How he ever lasted so long as the M's GM I'll never know. He's the Matt Millen of MLB.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:10 AM) There seems to be a reeeeeally good chance there are no big names or even semi big names coming to the Sox this off season.Everyone says its a smokescreen but this might be nothing but a rebuilding off season where we bring in nothing but young prospects,which is something I didnt expect from KW. The more I hear, the more I think you could be right, but I still can't see them purging that much of the payroll while raising ticket prices. Something big is going to happen. If not and they aren't successful on the field after doing that, it would be a huge problem.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:07 AM) The big problem is that you would have to carry 3 catchers to do that, just in case of injury. Yes and if you don't what ultimately happens is you will have to hit for Miller during the games he does start, and AJ's off day becomes a mute point. Miller might actually be worse than Hall as a whole. I wish the Sox would sign Blanco and end the ridiculousness.

Frank Tanana is 34th all time in innings pitched, 52nd all time in wins and in the top 25 all time for strikeouts. He's never been considered a HOF type, neither should Harold.

I don't think Fields would be a part of this deal. I think Cantu would be an OF who would take JD's line-up spot.