Dick Allen

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 8, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) 200 innings of what? I'm sure a few of our guys could give us 200 innings as well. Just depends on how effective you want those to be. At this point, I'm not sure if Dontrelle giving them 200 innings would be a good thing or a bad thing for them.... Who? Danks was gassed after 100. Floyd? That could get ugly. Garland gave you 200 innings of league average pitching. I wasn't his biggest fan, but that's worth something, maybe not $12 million a year, but something. The bullpen has not been used all that much innings-wise since Ozzie took over. As bad as its been the last couple of years, overworked really could never be used as an excuse. Now it might, especially if Contreras can't bounce back.

1 year $10 million.

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) Absolutely but some people are calling him a good SP or better, when all he is to me is a question mark. But then again Buerhle was as awful the second half of 2006 as Willis was at anytime during 2007, and I'm sure everyone is happy the White Sox gave him $56 million. The thing about Willis is even if his ERA is 5.00, he's going to give you 200 innings and that will save your bullpen especially if he's a #5 starter. The White Sox right now have to count on Floyd and Danks to pick up a ton of innings Garland ate up. It will take its toll on the bullpen if they can't show they can pitch a lot more efficiently in 2008.

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:30 PM) Everyone knows that willis used to be a good pitcher. The question is if he is still. He was terrible last year. They say he was only throwing 85 last year. He's making about $7 or 8 million in 2008, he's worth the gamble if it means you get Cabrera in your line-up.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) Nah, ill believe the Miami sources that said that we werent all that close. One of the reasons he had any hope at all is that we were basically one of the only teams at the WM that was making a serious offer. Your sources say OCabrera was the White Sox #2 target. You need new sources.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) Vaz has tremendously better overall stuff than a gimmicky Willis. Too bad Willis had a far better career record. Gimmicky or not, I'll take outs.

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:21 PM) My point is, maybe we are focusing on the strength of the division a little too much. We should be able to win games elsewhere if our division really is so hard. But they have been worse outside the divsion last year and even in 2005. Their interleague record last year was unacceptable.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) Im sure Dye heard the rumors and was excited, I didnt even know that you were on the call? And he was resigned because as you well know, not all trades happen the way we want them to, and it was a smart move to have a backup plan, you know that. And if it was spin, why did it come from other cities papers and sources? Wouldnt it have come from our market? KW was lead to believe they were close to getting him, believe me.

QUOTE(hogan873 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) I for one was surprised and upset that the Sox did not land Hunter, but at $90 million, the Sox weren't going to get him. And would anyone have been happy if the Sox had traded a huge chuck of the farm system for Chubby Cabrera? Sure it looks like the Sox haven't done anything, but there's still time and there's still money. You would think there still is money but Kenny is back to the you can't buy things for $1 if you only have $.50 line again.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:13 PM) Those teams top 2's are gone too. IM sure they all cried. From what I understand, plan A was Hunter, plan B was O Cabrera, which he got. All of the reports that have come out in the last few days state that the Sox werent even close for MCab, so we didnt lose s***. Probably exactly why Dye called KW 2 minutes after the trade came out asking what happened? C'mon, if Orlando Cabrera was a target how come Uribe was re-signed? Kenny himself said the Angels came to him after he signed Uribe saying they were about to offer him Cabrera but then they heard about Uribe. The reports the Sox didn't wan't MCabrera real bad,and weren't upset they didn't get him were spin,

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) What was our record against the central last year? 39-33, and still finished 24 games out.

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) Dontrelle willis is a good SP? Personally, I don't think so. He struggled badly in the NL, last year, now he is coming to the AL. I expect him to be mediocre at best. Depends. A lot of people thought he was hurt. He could bounce back. Vazquez wasn't too impressive in the NL the season before KW traded for him, and a lot of people were doing cartwheels KW got him. Really, Willis is a guy who could go either way, but he was part of the price for Cabrera.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:02 PM) Everyone knows we are "going for it" because we think we can contend within the division. Then Detroit goes and adds one of the top 5 hitters in the majors and a good SP while we do nothing, and of course we should be viewed as losers. Our pathetic attempt at contending got more pathetic at the meetings. All KW's fans will always mention 2005. The White Sox were 52-22 in the division that year. Its hard to see that happening again anytime soon. Even in 2005 they were .500 against the East and West.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) dodgers, giants, yankees, red sox, mets, orioles, phillies, cle, AZ, Col Who, don't say Santana he's still out there. The White Sox top 2 are gone, and that's why Kenny cried.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) Point of clarification - I have read nothing indicating any increas in profit for baseball. Attendance is up, and revenue is up. But so are costs. Some clubs still lose money, most only make a little - and that is just the guesswork that Forbes publishes annually because MLB doesn't give out this information. Has there been any indication at all that MLB and/or the teams are actually making more money? Hawk while praising Selig constantly is always saying everyone is making money. I read the other day the Marlins get $60 million before they sell 1 ticket, so we know the $53 million Forbes says they made is probably pretty accurate. I read where player salaries were 41% of total revenue, compared to 53% in the NFL. I think the contracts passed out the past couple of years are pretty indicative as well. Even the Royals and D-Rays are starting to shell out some coin.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:29 PM) Lots of teams have lost out on their top targets because players can't go to more than one team. Hell Kansas City chased Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and others. Then they go out and their 4th choice, a guy who is getting suspended for about 10% of the season, and yet they aren't on the list. KC hasn't publicly proclaimed themselves serious contenders in 2008.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) Probably a lot of teams that we don't know about. You are probably right, but for the White Sox it became public knowledge.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) Then why didn't they call the list, winners who won a lot of game last year, and the losers who lost a bunch of games last year and reliving those moments? if being a bad team was the prerequisite for being on the list, how come the rest of the bad teams weren't on the list? It was the winners and losers of the winter meetings, how hard is reading? And the White Sox lost out on their top 2 targets? Who else has?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:41 PM) So if missing out on big players was the standard for being the biggest losers at the winter meetings, why weren't Anaheim, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and Cleveland on this list after missing out on Cabrera, Santana, Santana, and Bay respectively? The Angels got the White Sox #1 target. I think part of it is it is assumed 72 win veteran teams generally need a little more to contend than the others. Since it was reported that KW gave Cabrera and Hunter as the names to excite his veterans into re-signing, and it was thought they were the White Sox 2 main targets, and they missed out on both, and that Santana and Bay haven't been moved so its still possible the Yankees Red Sox and Cleveland still may have a shot at them, its an easy assumption that if you have plan A to plan ZZZ, the White Sox are probably farther down the list than the others, which would make them thus far the biggest losers, but its been pointed out, the season doesn't start tomorrow.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:38 PM) Yeah its not like his boss fired the guy who won his other franchise six world titles or something... Look what it took to get him to "resign". It was the worst 3 or 4 or 5 year stretch by any team in NBA history. I would just have a problem with Kenny or Ozzie telling someone they need to grow up, when the reality is they also need to grow up. Actually, Kenny likes BA very much as a player, Ozzie could do without him.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:35 PM) Notice the edit I made to my post, even prior to seeing DA's next post. I can confidently say that DA is just as disappointed as I am in what's happened so far this offseason though. Very dissapointed would be correct. As you are well aware, I've had visions of Miguel Cabrera in a White Sox uniform for a long time. They are called losers because their biggest targets went elsewhere. As you know, I think a rebuild is in order, but KW thinks otherwise. We will see what happens, but despite nothing huge but the one trade happening during the winter meetings, I would think up until now, when the 2 biggest offseason targets are misses, the White Sox are currently the biggest losers. But there's still time to change things.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:31 PM) Oh I have a feeling that there will plenty of people obsessing about everyone of their moves and non-moves for some reason... I'm not talking about that. Ozzie is pretty immature himself, and Kenny's quotes made him look like a spoiled brat who didn't get his way so he complained about the media. The same guy who constantly stated earlier he would be after every player who may improve the team, b****es about the media and other teams reporting when he is doing just that, and when he falls short, its their fault, not that he misread the market and really didn't have a shot unless he wanted to drastically overpay.

The winter is far from over. The winter meetings except for 1 huge trade was a big bust again. The reason the White Sox were called losers was they apparently were the runners up for the 2 top players.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:23 PM) Oz and Kenny will be able to tell pretty quickly in Spring Training if Brian has grown up at all. Who is going to check to see if Ozzie and Kenny have grown up yet?

BA has talent. He's by far the best defensive CF in the White Sox system. In July and August of 2006 he hit .310. He hit .257 after the ASB in 2006. He wasn't just playing in meaningless games. He wasn't given much of an opportunity in 2007, just like if the White Sox were in contention after the first couple of months of 2007, Owens, and Richar wouldn't have had an opportunity. I wouldn't give up on him, he has holes in his swing, but so does everyone.