Dick Allen

At least it shows the White Sox interest wasn't all for show. They really wanted the guy and almost had him. I hope not signing him will work out as well as not signing Vizquel and Wright in 2005.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 25, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) Like Sisco, Massett, or Aardsma? I was going to say KW probably said the same thing a year ago, but whether it works out or not, he did what he had to do.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 25, 2007 -> 07:23 AM) With SP at such a premium, a low budget team would likely take a flyer on Masset to be their 5th SP. Masset may have too many question marks for the sox to keep, with little time for Masset to answer them, as he is out of options. He didn't do that well in the relief role [which would likely be his spot on the sox], and has done better in his career as a SP. It might be better to trade him too early than too late. As far as who might like him, I'd check teams he pitched against in AAA. He threw a few decent games vs Durham [TB], Toldeo, Buffalo and one vs. Ric [Richmond?]. http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=434665 He hasn't been too impressive as a starter. Its probably why he was converted into a reliever. I doubt he has any value right now, and would doubt any team would consider him a serious candidate to be in their 2008 rotation at this time. The White Sox wanted him based on his work as a closer in the Mexican League last winter. They may use him as a throw in with a bigger trade, or just wait to see how he looks in spring training. Maybe he shocks the world and suddenly will be able to throw strikes.

QUOTE(CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 24, 2007 -> 09:03 AM) Yes he could actually . If the Sox formula is pitching defense and speed and we fill those needs. I'm always optimistic on young players. I can see Owens OBP around .340, BA around .300 and 70 SB. I know that sounds foolish to many of you. I know its much easier to be right by saying he'll never put up those kind of numbers if all you're into is being right. All I do is hope things always work out in the White Sox favor which means I have to believe in the upside of their young players. I have no control over who they pick up in free agency or trades. To me being a Sox fan is rooting for all their players to do good. If that blind faith ? Yea it is but if I always wanted to be right I guess I could just be a fan of whatever team wins every year. I really don't know how not thinking Jerry Owens is going to put up the numbers you may believe would make me any less of a White Sox fan than you. Its not about being right. If Owens is starting I hope he puts up numbers that dwarf the numbers you are suggesting. To me its just being realistic. I want the White Sox to win. You can be optimistic about young players, I have a couple of favorites myself that a lot of people have issues with, but the fact is, hanging your hopes on White Sox farmhands the past several years would get you institutionalized. KW did a good job in trading some before any value they had ran out. I really don't think there are any posters here that have more than 100 posts that really don't want all the White Sox to do well, whether they think they are good players or not. I'm pretty sure, except for a few trolls or other team's fans visiting this site, everyone always wants the White Sox to win the WS, whether it makes the majority of their posts right or wrong.

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 02:31 PM) Marriotti complains when KW and JR don't overspend for a guy like Hunter, but in 3 years when you realize just how bad the contract is, and it handcuffs the team from making other significant moves, he'd be the first one to say it was a bad signing. I think he's a talented writer, but more often than not, he's writing something that will get your blood boiling in order to sell papers and be controversial. It's his job to be a conversation piece so I don't put a whole lot of stock into what he writes...plus it's no secret that he dislikes the White Sox and will bash them every chance he gets. He was crying before the Bears drafted McNown that he had to be the one they drafted. A couple years later he's wondering how anyone could be stupid enough to have drafted him. You are right, he constantly plays both ends and is never held accountable. Sort of like in 2005 when he proclaimed the White Sox season over after 2 games. After they had won them both. Hawk makes a mistake IMO everytime he mentions him, but he is correct about one thing. Marriotti has it out for JR, and probably has columns already written complaining about him to use when he has nothing else. The other day he was b****ing about JR being in a photo with the 6 championship trophies in the Bulls media guide, trying to make him out to be an egomaniac. I'm pretty sure it wasn't JR's idea to have that photo taken, but Marriotti has never let truth get in the way of his garbage.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 12:31 PM) I don't recall where, but I read where Jones actually lost a bunch of weight this past offseason and his range in center improved. However, that loss in weight also had a big impact on his struggles at the plate as well. I think in prior years he had been pretty bad defensively, but this past season he was very good again, perhaps to the gold glove standards he deserved. There are still concerns about his body, and would you want to give a guy a boatful of money when the only time he gets in shape is during the year his contract is up?

The only source for this signing is Levine right now. Even on the various websites where it is posted they say according to ESPN1000.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 09:59 AM) I've read that scouts think his body will breakdown faster and he is more susceptible to injury afte abusing his body like he did for all those years. Bob Baseball ability alone, anyone would take this guy in a heartbeat. But with the abuse, I read the same thing you did, there are concerns how his body will hold up, plus, not to be cruel, because I give him all the credit in the world for getting his life back in order, but the success rates for recovering addicts aren't in his favor. A relapse is always possible, maybe even probable. He's someone you'd like on your team, but probably someone you don't want to invest too much into.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 10:07 AM) The only thing that will upset me about this is if KW acts surprised that Hunter received money elsewhere. That or they wind up in a bidding war for Rowand and pay him $15 million a year.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 09:59 AM) espn.com is backing up the 5/90m number. The numbers being thrown around yesterday were 5/70 from the sox and 6/80-85 from the Rangers. I know a lot of people will think KW got slapped around in this, but hopefully he and the higher ups have limits $$ wise of what they value players at, and instead of getting burdened by an insane contract they have a plan B. What would peoples reaction be if in response to the Angels offer KW gave Hunter a 6 year 105 million or 5 year 95 million deal? Because ultimately that may have been what it took. If you believe the early reports, A-Rod was either going to LAA or the Dodgers. Then the 180 happened with the NYY and he signed with them. Angels are in a big market like the Sox, and are a major revenue team, they need to make big splashy moves. This could have been a reaction to not getting A-Rod It's November 22nd, let's see what happens. Yes, that was my mantra last year also and nothing major really happened, but doesn't mean I think that the roster we see with the Sox will stay the same It wasn't KW who said Hunter to the White Sox was just a formality. I'm sure he knew he wouldn't be the high bidder, and that chances were Hunter would be elsewhere. Hunter is a great player, but if it was going to be $18 million a year for 5 years, there has to be a better plan for a team that just can't throw money around. There are still plenty of options available and KW has a wad of cash to spend. He said the offense would be dynamic in 2008. I don't think that entirely hinged on Torri Hunter batting 6th.

If KW now turns to Rowand, I bet it would have cost him a lot less had he wanted Rowand from the beginning. Rowand being a second choice only after failing to land Hunter most likely takes any "discount" out of the equation, and no discount for Rowand is overpaying. I'm sure losing Hunter is a blow to KW, but he probably knew he wouldn't be the high bidder, so he can't be shocked. His plan B and plan C seemed to work in 2005 a heck of a lot better than his Plan A ideas have worked other years. He will get a CF and a leadoff man IMO. I have a feeling Carl Crawford will be a White Sox. I don't know why.

From an article I read, it appears the Sox came in 3rd place in the Hunter sweepstakes. Frankly, I think it was all about money and its really not the White Sox MO to offer the most money to someone on the open market. All of their potential free agents had to take a discount to stay. But unless this was a big smokescreen, Hunter was the Sox key piece trying to fix a very broken team. The shine is definitely off the WS trophy. KW isn't going to be successful wooing players by telling him how great the team will be or by how great the city is etc. The size of the check is going to do his talking.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 10:40 PM) I doubt very much that this is true. 6 for 100 would have the Dodgers offering more years and more dollars per year than anyone else. The Rangers offered a 6 year contract at 13-14 million per year. This would be 6 years with more than 16 per. That just doesn't make sense. I have a difficult time believing it and I haven't seen it reported anywhere else. The Score beat reporters are far from reliable. I trust Bruce Levine before I would trust them and I barely trust him. After some of your quotes in this thread, its amazing you rip anyone's credibility. How were the Angels able to sign someone the White Sox already have under contract?

I can't imagine Levine would announce this unless he was absolutely sure, but it really doesn't seem like a contract the White Sox would offer. But they do have to do something with the bullpen and the going rates are getting up there.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 10:02 PM) Are you relying on Wasserman to do well? No. I think he's a flash in the pan. It wouldn't surprise me if his ERA is near 6.00 next year.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) Linebrink can put down the dogs as well. Can Joey Chestnut pitch? Not only did he set a hot dog eating record, he downed 103 hamburgers in 8 minutes.

It would be nice if at least one of the guys between MacDougal, Aardsma, Masset and Sisco could actually be effective next season. I don't think you could count on it, and I'm happy it appears KW is not, but stranger things have happened. KW brings in another guy and one or 2 of these guys do what the White Sox thought they would do and the bullpen goes from total disaster to a strength. Its always nice to dream in November.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:51 PM) This strikes me as KW taking the Jim Hendry route to fixing problems. It at least partially worked for Hendry, but of course he didn't need to have all that great of team to win that division. Are the Cubs the first team in MLB to get swept by a team that got swept by a team that got swept in the playoffs?

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:49 PM) I don't know how much longer I can handle your avatar. I've been searching the internet trying to find Rosie in a bikini.

Maybe not being too familiar to AL hitters will allow him to have a good season and help the Sox win, then KW can dump him off on someone else for some young guys. If he had a big year in 2008, I know I would trade him.

If this signing does become reality, Linebrink will be making more than the rest of the bullpen combined, at least for now.

This guy is mediocre, but face it, its still a huge improvement. If you can't develop your own guys, the bullpen is going to be expensive these days.

Justin Speier last year would have made more sense. There's the $3 million savings + the $1.5 million the Angels kicked in for 2008. So the trade is Cabrera and Linebrink for Garland.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 01:06 AM) Did you actually see Jones play in 07'? Because he was in the best shape he has been in in several years. He worked out like a madman at Boras' request getting in good shape for his FA season. While this seemed to improve his defense, many believe it may have been part of why he had such a down year at the plate. His poor FA season had absolutely nothing to do with him being overweight. In fact, perhaps the fact that he lost weight had something to do with his performance at the dish... The rest of baseball is concerned about his body From Jayson Stark today "The big worry on Andruw is, his body is starting to scare people," said an official of one team that went into the winter shopping for center fielders. "You look at the body type, and you wonder: What are you getting? The question we were asking a few months ago was, 'Torii or Andruw?' But now Torii has gone way by him. I go back to bodies and conditioning. And based on that alone, I'd bet on Torii as the guy more likely to give you more productive years than Andruw, even though Andruw is younger."

QUOTE(Linnwood @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:00 AM) Has he ever been correct about things like this? I may be very wrong, but I still think Hunter is all about the money. Anything else I believe is an act.