Dick Allen

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) Point of clarification - I have read nothing indicating any increas in profit for baseball. Attendance is up, and revenue is up. But so are costs. Some clubs still lose money, most only make a little - and that is just the guesswork that Forbes publishes annually because MLB doesn't give out this information. Has there been any indication at all that MLB and/or the teams are actually making more money? Hawk while praising Selig constantly is always saying everyone is making money. I read the other day the Marlins get $60 million before they sell 1 ticket, so we know the $53 million Forbes says they made is probably pretty accurate. I read where player salaries were 41% of total revenue, compared to 53% in the NFL. I think the contracts passed out the past couple of years are pretty indicative as well. Even the Royals and D-Rays are starting to shell out some coin.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:29 PM) Lots of teams have lost out on their top targets because players can't go to more than one team. Hell Kansas City chased Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and others. Then they go out and their 4th choice, a guy who is getting suspended for about 10% of the season, and yet they aren't on the list. KC hasn't publicly proclaimed themselves serious contenders in 2008.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) Probably a lot of teams that we don't know about. You are probably right, but for the White Sox it became public knowledge.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) Then why didn't they call the list, winners who won a lot of game last year, and the losers who lost a bunch of games last year and reliving those moments? if being a bad team was the prerequisite for being on the list, how come the rest of the bad teams weren't on the list? It was the winners and losers of the winter meetings, how hard is reading? And the White Sox lost out on their top 2 targets? Who else has?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:41 PM) So if missing out on big players was the standard for being the biggest losers at the winter meetings, why weren't Anaheim, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and Cleveland on this list after missing out on Cabrera, Santana, Santana, and Bay respectively? The Angels got the White Sox #1 target. I think part of it is it is assumed 72 win veteran teams generally need a little more to contend than the others. Since it was reported that KW gave Cabrera and Hunter as the names to excite his veterans into re-signing, and it was thought they were the White Sox 2 main targets, and they missed out on both, and that Santana and Bay haven't been moved so its still possible the Yankees Red Sox and Cleveland still may have a shot at them, its an easy assumption that if you have plan A to plan ZZZ, the White Sox are probably farther down the list than the others, which would make them thus far the biggest losers, but its been pointed out, the season doesn't start tomorrow.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:38 PM) Yeah its not like his boss fired the guy who won his other franchise six world titles or something... Look what it took to get him to "resign". It was the worst 3 or 4 or 5 year stretch by any team in NBA history. I would just have a problem with Kenny or Ozzie telling someone they need to grow up, when the reality is they also need to grow up. Actually, Kenny likes BA very much as a player, Ozzie could do without him.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:35 PM) Notice the edit I made to my post, even prior to seeing DA's next post. I can confidently say that DA is just as disappointed as I am in what's happened so far this offseason though. Very dissapointed would be correct. As you are well aware, I've had visions of Miguel Cabrera in a White Sox uniform for a long time. They are called losers because their biggest targets went elsewhere. As you know, I think a rebuild is in order, but KW thinks otherwise. We will see what happens, but despite nothing huge but the one trade happening during the winter meetings, I would think up until now, when the 2 biggest offseason targets are misses, the White Sox are currently the biggest losers. But there's still time to change things.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:31 PM) Oh I have a feeling that there will plenty of people obsessing about everyone of their moves and non-moves for some reason... I'm not talking about that. Ozzie is pretty immature himself, and Kenny's quotes made him look like a spoiled brat who didn't get his way so he complained about the media. The same guy who constantly stated earlier he would be after every player who may improve the team, b****es about the media and other teams reporting when he is doing just that, and when he falls short, its their fault, not that he misread the market and really didn't have a shot unless he wanted to drastically overpay.

The winter is far from over. The winter meetings except for 1 huge trade was a big bust again. The reason the White Sox were called losers was they apparently were the runners up for the 2 top players.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:23 PM) Oz and Kenny will be able to tell pretty quickly in Spring Training if Brian has grown up at all. Who is going to check to see if Ozzie and Kenny have grown up yet?

BA has talent. He's by far the best defensive CF in the White Sox system. In July and August of 2006 he hit .310. He hit .257 after the ASB in 2006. He wasn't just playing in meaningless games. He wasn't given much of an opportunity in 2007, just like if the White Sox were in contention after the first couple of months of 2007, Owens, and Richar wouldn't have had an opportunity. I wouldn't give up on him, he has holes in his swing, but so does everyone.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) The NFL started giving drug suspensions about a decade ago. They were way quicker to do something than MLB, and MLB, between the anti-trust, and the commish's powers to act in the best interest of the game, they have been a complete failure in this aspect. The NFL even had to have this happen during labor negotiations, which MLB didn't. How many years did it take after Lyle Alzado died because of cancer he claimed came from steroid abuse did these 4 game suspensions start occuring?

QUOTE(joeynach @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:28 PM) I really think its as simple as budget, KW has one. And adding $18 Mil to the next 2 years just doens't seem like its in KW's budget or im sure he would do it. If the plan was to get both Hunter and Cabrera, I really wonder what the budget is. It could be they would have then shipped another big contract, maybe Konerko out for cheaper parts, but all indications are KW has money to play with and his moaning about finances is just a smokescreen.

QUOTE(scenario @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) From a Trib story tonight... "Meanwhile, Sox prospect Brian Anderson appears unlikely to play winter ball in Mexico. Agent Terry Bross, who works with Clifton, said Anderson is close to being in the best shape of his life since recovering from a left wrist injury. "Mexico isn't really out of the question," Bross said. "But we want to make sure everything is right. He just started facing live pitching. In Mexico you're going to face pitchers with tough breaking balls. "For the first time, Brian is approaching this like a professional. He works out twice a day and doesn't go out at night. He's working with a top professional trainer and with a nutritionist. He's very focused." Interesting 'confession' by an agent. Hey the Sox picked up $50k in the rule 5. KW has more than $.50 now.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 02:37 PM) Yet on the other hand, Detroit, who you specifically mention, made the EXACT same mistake in 07' that Kenny made in 06', and now have gambled basically their entire farm system on bringing a title to Motown within the next two seasons. Are they a better team on paper right now, absolutely. Do they have any pitching? Uhhh... I don't see anything wrong with what Kenny said regarding the Tigers competing with the White Sox. How people can continually ignore the fact that teams come out of nowhere each and every year and compete with, or exceed the performance of other teams that on paper look far more dangerous is beyond me. If you want to award the division to Detroit or Cleveland right now, go right ahead. Just as people awarded it to us prior to 06', and most to the Tigers last season. I'm not going to argue that Cabrera wasn't a wonderful acquisition for the Marlins. He's an incredible player and it's hard to go wrong when trading for someone so advanced in skill at his young age. Yet the Tigers have problems of their own- they've got a core that is filled with aging veterans that WILL experience injury and WILL see their production decline over the next two years. Yet they look at themselves now and they have very little pitching and a farm system devoid of a whole ton of talent. Can they win it all this year? Perhaps. Had we taken the same gamble would KW be getting railed here for something so reckless and short-sighted, absolutely. But I guess the grass is always greener....right now, Mark Shapiro/Dave Dombrowski/Billy Smith/Dayton Moore are all geniuses, while the Stanford guy is dumb as rocks. Its not worth arguing now, because there simply is no way KW is going to go into the 2008 season with the current roster. We shall see, but unless he can significantly upgrade the roster, he should at least consider at the very least a partial rebuild.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 01:43 PM) Formulating a laundry list of only the negative things that Kenny has done (including some that are still pending- give some of these kids a chance still) does nothing to change my opinion on things. I certainly am not happy with the outcome of things, but there are a lot of solid GM's not happy with the outcomes of their teams right now. In my viewpoint, the things Kenny has done since the World Series title, AT THE TIME THE DECISIONS WERE MADE, have been for the most part, very solid decisions. Reviewing them now is not a fair method of critiquing him. There were more than a few people that have questioned his moves at the time he's made them the past couple of years. Most "experts" predicted the White Sox to win the Central in 2006, but after that, not many predicted much out of them in 2007. It could just be posturing but he can't possibly think just adding Linebrink will fix the bullpen. Who is going to eat Garland's 200 innings? Floyd? Danks runs out of gas after about 100 innings and he should be good for 175 in 2008? Maybe some GMs aren't happy with the outcomes of their teams, and maybe there are several teams with a $108 million payroll that lost 90 games but still drew a top 5 or 6 attendance figure in team history, but they aren't popping off in the press about a team that finished 16 games in front of them acquiring a player they were willing to gut what was left of their farm system to acquire that it was good, that it meant they would be better able to compete against a team that in the past year and a half has been nothing short of awful. They aren't popping off they can't spend $1 when they only have $.50. Guess what, the reason he only has the $.50 is his fault. As I said, I'm not giving up on 2008 yet. He can still put together a decent team. His ego, not wanting to admit he was wrong on players or combinations of players, probably will stand in his way. He needs to make either wholesale changes or expensive roster additions or both. Why do I have the feeling that Rowand will get a bloated contract and at the press conference KW will state he was the first option all along.

QUOTE(bschmaranz @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 01:52 PM) Hasn't he played poorly in the Dominican League? Yes. He wasn't playing much and asked for and was granted his release from his team.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 12:11 PM) And I agree with a lot of this. It makes things incredibly difficult though when you have writers who have absolutely no concept of what the organization is trying to do, what it's financial situation dictates, etc. Instead, many of them clamor for the White Sox to run their business how the Cubs suddenly have begun to, spending money on any and every free agent acquisition or high-priced veteran as possible. The White Sox simply cannot compete with the Cubs on a level playing field with $. They have to be more responsible and cautious. And yet, the people disseminating the information to our fanbase have no concept of that simple fact. Honestly, I think alot of this stems from Kenny being forced to adjust to changes in the current landscape, yet simultaneously appease the uninformed fanbase. He's tried to ask them simply to trust him, but that comes off as arrogant or smug. But it's not. It's what you have to do when your audience is incapable or unwilling to understand what you are trying to do. When the team needed help in 2006, KW consulted with Konerko and Thome and they said the team was fine, so he did nothing and the team faultered. Oh wait, they did pick up Sandy Alomar Jr. at the bingo hall . Coming into 2007 he said the team couldn't play any worse than it did in 2006 and still won 90 games, then went on to say that people would know in spring training what they were trying to do by bringing in Floyd and Danks because it would make them better right then. He "fixed" the bullpen by getting guys who could throw gas, but couldn't throw strikes. He said people didn't realize that David Aardsma "turned a corner" in his last couple of months pitching in meaningless games for the Cubs. The bullpen turned out to be worse than ever in 2007. The organization that stated they didn't care what others thought, they had their own way of thinking said Jim Leyland thought the Sox bullpen would be the strongest in the divison. So who could see that coming, even though Jenks was the only member of the bullpen who ever has had sustained success in the major leagues. The team who had an offense that struggled the second half of 2006 even with Dye and Thome slugging 40 homers, putting up numbers you really couldn't reasonably expect them to match in 2007, re-signed Pods, a guy who probably gets hurt getting out of bed every morning, and relies on Darin Erstad, a guy who also is usually quite injured. They both get hurt. Thome's back tightens up occassionally, Dye comes back down to approximately his 2005 level, and once again, the offense struggles, not for a half, but for an entire season. Once again, its called the "perfect storm". No one could have seen that coming. I'm wondering if the ball doesn't go through Tony G's legs in October 2005, and if El Duque gets lit up instead of shutting down the Red Sox the next game, and the White Sox wind up losing that series, what would Kenny Williams have to hang his hat on during his tenure? I doubt even his biggest apologists would call it a success. The Sox did win and you have to give him credit, but if he truely thinks what he is quoted as saying this morning is true, the only person he is fooling is himself. The team can still be good in 2008, but its going to need a few new players.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 11:02 AM) Not to be a jerk but, pitching and hitting WILL be a problem next year, because YOU said so? No, because its been a problem for a year and a half, and thus far only minor tweaks have occurred. If the team is so stacked, why bother with trying to get Hunter and Cabrera? The team needs changes.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:50 AM) I honestly respect your input, but you continue to have a bit of Mariotti in your comments. I don't want to start this whole crapstorm again, but honestly, at some point players have to get the job done. Ours went from getting it done in stellar fashion (the first half of 06', and everything looked as if it were going exactly to plan), to absolute garbage in the blink of an eye (from about the Boston series right before the 06' ASB until the end of the season). Because of the WS in 05', Kenny had to give the team a bit of a chance to redeem themselves and pay credence to the theory that the run in 05' had negatively affected the team down the stretch in 06'. Therefore, he kept the same core of players around, made some tweaks to the pitching staff and bullpen, but all in all, gave the guys another run at it in 07'. What happened this season was absolutely mystifying on all accounts. Certainly the bullpen failed us, but even had it not, the offense was near the last in the AL. No one could have predicted that after the breakout year the offense had in 06'. And I don't think anyone can predict with ANY certainty what the offense will do next year. The volatile swings in production from 05' to 06' to 07' are anyone's guess. And there will be those that say it is age, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the offense produce far more runs this season after growing a year older. Jim Thome was our best offensive player this season, and he is also the oldest non-pitcher on the team. So I don't buy the age card for Pauly and JD. Anyways, I digress. The point is, Kenny, in my opinion, wasn't in a position to make drastic changes until now. And that, he's tried to do. He acquired a better ss, which everyone was calling for. He acquired a bullpen arm, which everyone was calling for. He tried to acquire one of the best CF options on the market, which everyone has been calling for. He tried to acquire the best young hitter on the market, which many were clamoring for. Unfortunately, he has swung and missed a few times, and will have to make an adjustment to his plans, but I don't understand how one could argue that he hasn't noticed that this team has been in a "freefall" since the ASB of 06'. He clearly understands that. It's simply that he has to work in reality, with what is actually out there. Not like us in our speculative fantasy world. Look at the team's individual final numbers even in 2007. Who would you expect to be drastically better in 2008? The guy counted on Podsednik and Erstad in 2007. I don't know how much more you need to know. The pitching staff wasn't so great in 2007. He's added Linebrink and subtracted Garland, and now says the pitching, ranked 12th out of 14th last year, will not be a problem. Why, because he said so?

QUOTE(J-MAN @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:37 AM) I agree! I am one fan who is happy we did not grossly overpay Hunter. Cabrera would have been a nice addition but we apparently didn't have the players in the minors to get the deal done. What exactly do people want management to do. I am not happy we lost so many games last year and hope they can improve the team before spring training. I would be all for rebuilding or improving the team. I just don't want to hear KW with the line the guys the Sox have are good enough. They are not. Its not even close. He's been using it for the last year and a half, and he's been very wrong. The problem is KW's plan is flawed. He expects a "market correction". He has a weak farm system but doesn't realize other teams will easily trump his offers. He doesn't understand that almost every free agent coming off a big year gets overpaid. He either needs to be prepared to overpay for a guy like Hunter or set his sights lower.

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:35 AM) Over at WSI, they're claiming that Brucey stated that the Sox are offering a 3 year deal to Rowand after Jones' signing in LA. Bruce is covering his behind and saying "may have."

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:19 AM) This is Kenny Williams. He doesn't care what you or I think. And either does Jerry or the board, but they love him. And until he isn't, he's the White Sox GM, who, by the way, is the FIRST GM in 88 years to win a World Series. While I have no doubt he doesn't care what you or I think, he does care what some think based on his quotes today. As far as winning a WS, that was great, but it doesn't give him a pass the rest of his life. The guy had a $108 million payroll and was a lot closer to having the worst record in baseball than the best. This team has been in freefall since the ASB 2006. Its time he noticed. KW has shown "confidence" in his roster since the 2006 trade deadline. It hasn't meant much.

KW has often said he and the White Sox organization don't care what other people think. Why should other organizations care what he thinks?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) You still have your numbers a bit off Guillen had a .813 OPS last season, and has a career .772 OPS. Rowand had a .889 OPS last season, and has a career .805 OPS. If Rowand had never played for the Sox before, people would love to get him. Guillen has so many character issues as well.