Dick Allen

What happened is things cost $1 and KW only has $.50.

Looks like Iguchi may go play 3rd in Milwaukee.

He's beyond brutal defensively, but at least he used to be able hit. It would depend on how much it costs. I don't think the Sox will go there. Dumped by Tampa and the Reds doesn't look good on the resume.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:28 PM) this is from will carrols chat.... i really think ti could be the sox.....sox offer rowand 4 years 55...he declines...sox offer it to kosuke fyi: he had reported earlier that both chicago teams appeared to be making the strongest offerings He said the Sox did make a big push for him today. It would be hearbreaking if he wound up on the other side of town.

QUOTE(False Alarm @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:01 PM) from will carroll at 1 pm ET: Considering how KW had his chest puffed out a couple of years ago saying all the Japanese players want to play for the White Sox because of Iguchi and Shingo, it would be interesting if Fukudome goes to the Cubs. This is a guy the White Sox need. He only wants a 3 year contract.

What's really got me puzzled is Ozzie now thinks the pitching is fine, and the offense needs a lot of work. Swapping out Garland for Linebrink on the pitching staff that ranked 13th out of 14 and now you are fine? The other thing is makes clear, is Ozzie isn't too high on the rookies.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:50 PM) Thome doesn't hit into too many double plays (you have to make contact for that to happen). Plus he would be the first player ever to lead off a game by hitting into a DP.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:12 PM) Isn't Richar the exact definition of a young talented player at a key position? Yes, he's not Kendrick. But he's also not chopped liver either. Hell, if the plan was to bring in MCabrera, then why the Heck didn't we hold onto Cunningham to use as a bargaining chip there? The Marlins probably weren't going to bite on a deal that didn't bring them along a solid OF prospect. If you want to deal Konerko, that I understand more than insisting on Kendrick as the payment. A .230 AVG with a .289 OBP and 1 steal and not exactly stellar with the glove doesn't make him a sure bet. He has shown flashes of brilliance, but a lot of guys do. He will need to improve a lot to be a contirbuting regular on a good major league team. For comparisons sake, Brian Anderson hit .225 with a .290 OBP in 2006 and most people thing he should be stocking oranges at Jewel.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:03 PM) 12:58 p.m., from Amy Nelson • Since news broke of the Marlins-Tigers blockbuster, Detroit left-hander Andrew Miller has not heard a word from anyone in the Tigers' organization. One of Miller's agents ran into Jim Leyland in the hotel lobby Tuesday night, and Leyland told him the deal wasn't anywhere close to getting done. What is unclear is whether any of the eight players involved have to physically be examined, which is why the trade could be held up. So far, Miller and his agents have not been told anything. Word is that the deal might not be completed until after the winter meetings -- unless there are other factors preventing it from getting done. Miller, in fact, is working out at the Tigers' spring training complex in Lakeland, Fla. He met with the trainers this morning, had his sore left knee worked on, and is now out playing golf with some of his teammates. Late in the season, Miller had an MRI on his left knee, where it turned out there was some mild cartilage damage. He's been rehabbing it ever since. Since he's officially still a Tiger, he wasn't denied treatment. Ozzie's wife told Cabrera about it, after Ozzie called her and told her he was dealt. Everyone is saying what a pain in the ass the Marlins have been to deal with. This couldn't fall through, could it? Keep Cabrera out of the AL Central, unless he's with the White Sox.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:43 AM) Couple points. First, I believe there's still some decent bad blood between the 2 sides after his first stint here. Second, my question again: Does the upgrade from Jerry Owens to Kenny Lofton win us the AL Central next year? Even if you combine it with another trade other than dealing for Johan, I don't think it does. So why would we spend the money on that? Maybe we get lucky, Jerry Owens hits .290, steals 70 bases, and then we can do the reverse of the Pods/Lee trade and sell him at peak value. Or Owens fails and Sweeney gets a shot. Or Owens fails and Anderson gets a shot to rebuild his trade value. If people do not think that we have a shot to win the Central as currently composed, then small measures don't help with that, and they don't help us rebuild either. Right now there aren't many upgrades available without the White Sox adding substantial payroll that would make them the favorites in the AL Central in 2008. I don't know about bad blood. I do know when Lofton was on the Sox he was on fire in April and KW tried to get him to sign an extension. He fizzled as did the team and KW unloaded him. Was there something about a lack of effort? I seemed to recall something along those lines, but I don't think its anything they couldn't get over. KW should be rebuilding right now IMO.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:40 AM) Angels OVERPAID. Tigers OVERPAID. No team went as high as the Angels for Hunter, obviously, it sounded like Hunter was surprised he was being offered that and took it. The Tigers took Willis who, it seems, the Sox didn't want AND dealt away their replacement for a 42 year old LHP and their top position prospect. Plus, the Sox didn't have the horses to get the Marlin deal done, which IS Kenny's fault. But, people seem to forget, they fired the guy in charge of the minors...this new guy may be trying to start from scratch. Maybe he didn't like Carter as much as BA or anyone else did? Just like a new CEO or GM or anything, they want to make their mark and that mean cleaning out the old guys personnel. Give Wilder, Regier, Bell and Laumann do in the next draft. That's what it takes these days to add stars. You must overpay. If you're not willing to overpay, you will not get them, so its a waste of time targeting them. You're right, they have got to improve the farm system, so they can get guys either other teams want or that they can plug in cheaply and perform so they have money to overpay for great players.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:50 PM) exactly my thoughts... what a joke!! Sorry KW we've accepted your excuses last year with the whole "Market Correction" crap. But if you offer Hunter that much money and then come back and say "im not going to give you a dollar if i only have 50 cents to offer" crap, you lose a TON of credibility. What a joke this offseason is turning out to be... we might as well re-sign Erstad and sign Eckstein at this point. . I love how Kenny thinks he can do what he did in the 2004 offseason again... That 2004 team going into 2005 didn't have as many holes.. all we needed was a couple of pen guys a leadoff hitter and 1 starter. The rest of the team was pretty much filled. . The team we have now has waaaaaaaaayyy too many holes... this team is going nowhere fast.. and even JD sees that. The bigger joke is KW has more money to play with than most GMs. He had a payroll of $108 million and the team was competing for the worst record in baseball in September. His "market correction" ain't happening anytime soon. He's going to have to break up some of the big contracts he's passed out and try a different combination. This one isn't working. The other thing comparing it to the offseason prior to 2005 is that the division is much better. He has a long way to go to make this team a contender. He still has time, but he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. He's says its not about the superstars, yet he tries but comes up short for most that are available. Why even bother if its not about them? I think KW has to realize right now is a very dangerous time.

Anyone as sick of this quote as I am? KW hasn't broken it out since pre-WS title "You try to do things that make sense and you can afford," Williams said. "I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

I believe the Marlins are non-tendering Olivo so with this trade their payroll becomes something like $15 million for the entire team.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:24 PM) so is steve phillips just a moron or is this thing gonna happen? Wouldn't Chris Burke to the White Sox send a buzz through the hotel lobby in Nashville like we have never seen before?

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:16 PM) I realize we are talking about the Cubs here, but why aren't they making a play for Johan. They get 3 milllion sheep every year, now second highest ticket prices. The Cubs would dominate the NL for years with Johan. But I guess that makes too much sense. Instead, they spend money on a guy that has never played an inning in mlb. They really jacked up their ticket prices. All those season ticketholders paid for the playoffs and only got 1 game. They will get their invoices and probably will be too drunk to figure out how much more they have to pay. They will probably think prices went down. The only thing I can think of with Santana is that may be too much money for them to take on as far as an extension before the sale, and trading for him and not signing him would be horrible because of the price.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:07 PM) If KW is serious about getting players who will have a .350+ OBP and not strike out a ton, I think Fukudome is the target then. The Cubs have supposedly told Fukudome's agent they will outbid anybody.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) How did he get his clock cleaned exactly? We dont even know if we were even in on the bidding, it could have been fodder by Fla. We also dont even have close to the top tier talent that Detroit just gave away. You cant buy a 50 dollar steak with 10 bucks, no matter how great you think you are. The only way he got his clock cleaned is by having one of the greatest hitters in the game, only 24, go to a division rival. You're right, he couldn't offer the package Detroit offered because he doesn't have it. Too bad it took him and the rest of the organization so long to figure out there was a problem drafting and developing players.

What's Florida's payroll going to be next season? It already was lower than their revenue sharing check.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:33 PM) the certainly upgraded their lineup...and now that inge will probably be traded that is gonna drive the market down for crede as well....too bad dontrelle is gonna get lit up in the AL and the tigers after trading for renteria and cabrera have no farm system...oh well...granderson polanco cabrera sheffield maggs guillen renteria pudge jones damn The problem is the White Sox have no farm system either, and a ton of holes on the major league level. KW is just going to have to move on and try to put together a solid team and hope the breaks go the White Sox way in 2008. Right now, talent-wise there is no comparision between Detroit and the White Sox.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:26 PM) it was on the radio and someone said it was a blurb on espn hd, maybe we thought we had him, then the Tigers upped their initial deal to block it. I think we sign Andruw Jones in the next few hours though. It actually was part of the article that started this thread. I have a feeling that "announcement" has been canceled. It wouldn't surprise me Detroit saw the White Sox about to get Cabrera so they upped their offer. Its a risk, but a 24 year old who hits like that is going to be around awhile.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:23 PM) [/b] We were a 70ish million dollar team in 05, that had to flip guys like Lee to have financial flexibility to get multiple players. We are now a 100+ million dollar team. Please dont compare the two teams, or use the reasoning well it worked in 05 so it will work in 08. Times are different, and we are not a mid market team. I will state that the sum of the parts we would of given up, will never account the for impact that Cabrera will have in his lifetime. You can build a championship around Cabrera. We won in 05 on outstanding pitching, and getting hot with our bats in the postseason. With the current team and the addition of Cabrera to a potent Detroit offense. I dont see how we compete and get into the playoffs. You might as well just rip it apart and start over. The big success the White Sox had in 2005 was they beat the crap out of their division. Its not that easy anymore.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:20 PM) Yeah, I saw that one. I guess I just don't buy this rumor anymore than the other. Mlb.com is reputable, but if the deal was all but finalized this afternoon, why would they plant an article about the White Sox at 5 pm? It doesn't add up... Gammons has it on the winter meetings blog on espn.com.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:13 PM) Verlander Willis Rogers Bonderman Robertson Only 1 guy on that list had an ERA under 4.4 last year, and that was Verlander. That supposedly dominant staff sure struggled one hell of a lot last year outside of Verlander. And the White Sox will be relying on what? You really have to be crazy to think unless KW throws a ton of money into the White Sox right now, he can compete with them. I think Konerko is a better 1B than Guillen, but the Tigers have the edge at every other position if this deal goes down.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:09 PM) Because that's so much better and more intimidating than the lineups the Yankees have trotted out the past 5 years. The Yankees have made the playoffs how many years in a row? Considering its rare a wild card team comes from the Central Divison and Cleveland appears to only be getting better, KW has a whole lot of work to do to catch up, and he's pretty strapped with the payroll.