Dick Allen

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) Vaz has tremendously better overall stuff than a gimmicky Willis. Too bad Willis had a far better career record. Gimmicky or not, I'll take outs.

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:21 PM) My point is, maybe we are focusing on the strength of the division a little too much. We should be able to win games elsewhere if our division really is so hard. But they have been worse outside the divsion last year and even in 2005. Their interleague record last year was unacceptable.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) Im sure Dye heard the rumors and was excited, I didnt even know that you were on the call? And he was resigned because as you well know, not all trades happen the way we want them to, and it was a smart move to have a backup plan, you know that. And if it was spin, why did it come from other cities papers and sources? Wouldnt it have come from our market? KW was lead to believe they were close to getting him, believe me.

QUOTE(hogan873 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) I for one was surprised and upset that the Sox did not land Hunter, but at $90 million, the Sox weren't going to get him. And would anyone have been happy if the Sox had traded a huge chuck of the farm system for Chubby Cabrera? Sure it looks like the Sox haven't done anything, but there's still time and there's still money. You would think there still is money but Kenny is back to the you can't buy things for $1 if you only have $.50 line again.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:13 PM) Those teams top 2's are gone too. IM sure they all cried. From what I understand, plan A was Hunter, plan B was O Cabrera, which he got. All of the reports that have come out in the last few days state that the Sox werent even close for MCab, so we didnt lose s***. Probably exactly why Dye called KW 2 minutes after the trade came out asking what happened? C'mon, if Orlando Cabrera was a target how come Uribe was re-signed? Kenny himself said the Angels came to him after he signed Uribe saying they were about to offer him Cabrera but then they heard about Uribe. The reports the Sox didn't wan't MCabrera real bad,and weren't upset they didn't get him were spin,

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) What was our record against the central last year? 39-33, and still finished 24 games out.

QUOTE(max power @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) Dontrelle willis is a good SP? Personally, I don't think so. He struggled badly in the NL, last year, now he is coming to the AL. I expect him to be mediocre at best. Depends. A lot of people thought he was hurt. He could bounce back. Vazquez wasn't too impressive in the NL the season before KW traded for him, and a lot of people were doing cartwheels KW got him. Really, Willis is a guy who could go either way, but he was part of the price for Cabrera.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:02 PM) Everyone knows we are "going for it" because we think we can contend within the division. Then Detroit goes and adds one of the top 5 hitters in the majors and a good SP while we do nothing, and of course we should be viewed as losers. Our pathetic attempt at contending got more pathetic at the meetings. All KW's fans will always mention 2005. The White Sox were 52-22 in the division that year. Its hard to see that happening again anytime soon. Even in 2005 they were .500 against the East and West.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) dodgers, giants, yankees, red sox, mets, orioles, phillies, cle, AZ, Col Who, don't say Santana he's still out there. The White Sox top 2 are gone, and that's why Kenny cried.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) Point of clarification - I have read nothing indicating any increas in profit for baseball. Attendance is up, and revenue is up. But so are costs. Some clubs still lose money, most only make a little - and that is just the guesswork that Forbes publishes annually because MLB doesn't give out this information. Has there been any indication at all that MLB and/or the teams are actually making more money? Hawk while praising Selig constantly is always saying everyone is making money. I read the other day the Marlins get $60 million before they sell 1 ticket, so we know the $53 million Forbes says they made is probably pretty accurate. I read where player salaries were 41% of total revenue, compared to 53% in the NFL. I think the contracts passed out the past couple of years are pretty indicative as well. Even the Royals and D-Rays are starting to shell out some coin.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:29 PM) Lots of teams have lost out on their top targets because players can't go to more than one team. Hell Kansas City chased Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and others. Then they go out and their 4th choice, a guy who is getting suspended for about 10% of the season, and yet they aren't on the list. KC hasn't publicly proclaimed themselves serious contenders in 2008.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) Probably a lot of teams that we don't know about. You are probably right, but for the White Sox it became public knowledge.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) Then why didn't they call the list, winners who won a lot of game last year, and the losers who lost a bunch of games last year and reliving those moments? if being a bad team was the prerequisite for being on the list, how come the rest of the bad teams weren't on the list? It was the winners and losers of the winter meetings, how hard is reading? And the White Sox lost out on their top 2 targets? Who else has?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:41 PM) So if missing out on big players was the standard for being the biggest losers at the winter meetings, why weren't Anaheim, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and Cleveland on this list after missing out on Cabrera, Santana, Santana, and Bay respectively? The Angels got the White Sox #1 target. I think part of it is it is assumed 72 win veteran teams generally need a little more to contend than the others. Since it was reported that KW gave Cabrera and Hunter as the names to excite his veterans into re-signing, and it was thought they were the White Sox 2 main targets, and they missed out on both, and that Santana and Bay haven't been moved so its still possible the Yankees Red Sox and Cleveland still may have a shot at them, its an easy assumption that if you have plan A to plan ZZZ, the White Sox are probably farther down the list than the others, which would make them thus far the biggest losers, but its been pointed out, the season doesn't start tomorrow.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:38 PM) Yeah its not like his boss fired the guy who won his other franchise six world titles or something... Look what it took to get him to "resign". It was the worst 3 or 4 or 5 year stretch by any team in NBA history. I would just have a problem with Kenny or Ozzie telling someone they need to grow up, when the reality is they also need to grow up. Actually, Kenny likes BA very much as a player, Ozzie could do without him.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:35 PM) Notice the edit I made to my post, even prior to seeing DA's next post. I can confidently say that DA is just as disappointed as I am in what's happened so far this offseason though. Very dissapointed would be correct. As you are well aware, I've had visions of Miguel Cabrera in a White Sox uniform for a long time. They are called losers because their biggest targets went elsewhere. As you know, I think a rebuild is in order, but KW thinks otherwise. We will see what happens, but despite nothing huge but the one trade happening during the winter meetings, I would think up until now, when the 2 biggest offseason targets are misses, the White Sox are currently the biggest losers. But there's still time to change things.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:31 PM) Oh I have a feeling that there will plenty of people obsessing about everyone of their moves and non-moves for some reason... I'm not talking about that. Ozzie is pretty immature himself, and Kenny's quotes made him look like a spoiled brat who didn't get his way so he complained about the media. The same guy who constantly stated earlier he would be after every player who may improve the team, b****es about the media and other teams reporting when he is doing just that, and when he falls short, its their fault, not that he misread the market and really didn't have a shot unless he wanted to drastically overpay.

The winter is far from over. The winter meetings except for 1 huge trade was a big bust again. The reason the White Sox were called losers was they apparently were the runners up for the 2 top players.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 02:23 PM) Oz and Kenny will be able to tell pretty quickly in Spring Training if Brian has grown up at all. Who is going to check to see if Ozzie and Kenny have grown up yet?

BA has talent. He's by far the best defensive CF in the White Sox system. In July and August of 2006 he hit .310. He hit .257 after the ASB in 2006. He wasn't just playing in meaningless games. He wasn't given much of an opportunity in 2007, just like if the White Sox were in contention after the first couple of months of 2007, Owens, and Richar wouldn't have had an opportunity. I wouldn't give up on him, he has holes in his swing, but so does everyone.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) The NFL started giving drug suspensions about a decade ago. They were way quicker to do something than MLB, and MLB, between the anti-trust, and the commish's powers to act in the best interest of the game, they have been a complete failure in this aspect. The NFL even had to have this happen during labor negotiations, which MLB didn't. How many years did it take after Lyle Alzado died because of cancer he claimed came from steroid abuse did these 4 game suspensions start occuring?

QUOTE(joeynach @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:28 PM) I really think its as simple as budget, KW has one. And adding $18 Mil to the next 2 years just doens't seem like its in KW's budget or im sure he would do it. If the plan was to get both Hunter and Cabrera, I really wonder what the budget is. It could be they would have then shipped another big contract, maybe Konerko out for cheaper parts, but all indications are KW has money to play with and his moaning about finances is just a smokescreen.

QUOTE(scenario @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) From a Trib story tonight... "Meanwhile, Sox prospect Brian Anderson appears unlikely to play winter ball in Mexico. Agent Terry Bross, who works with Clifton, said Anderson is close to being in the best shape of his life since recovering from a left wrist injury. "Mexico isn't really out of the question," Bross said. "But we want to make sure everything is right. He just started facing live pitching. In Mexico you're going to face pitchers with tough breaking balls. "For the first time, Brian is approaching this like a professional. He works out twice a day and doesn't go out at night. He's working with a top professional trainer and with a nutritionist. He's very focused." Interesting 'confession' by an agent. Hey the Sox picked up $50k in the rule 5. KW has more than $.50 now.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 02:37 PM) Yet on the other hand, Detroit, who you specifically mention, made the EXACT same mistake in 07' that Kenny made in 06', and now have gambled basically their entire farm system on bringing a title to Motown within the next two seasons. Are they a better team on paper right now, absolutely. Do they have any pitching? Uhhh... I don't see anything wrong with what Kenny said regarding the Tigers competing with the White Sox. How people can continually ignore the fact that teams come out of nowhere each and every year and compete with, or exceed the performance of other teams that on paper look far more dangerous is beyond me. If you want to award the division to Detroit or Cleveland right now, go right ahead. Just as people awarded it to us prior to 06', and most to the Tigers last season. I'm not going to argue that Cabrera wasn't a wonderful acquisition for the Marlins. He's an incredible player and it's hard to go wrong when trading for someone so advanced in skill at his young age. Yet the Tigers have problems of their own- they've got a core that is filled with aging veterans that WILL experience injury and WILL see their production decline over the next two years. Yet they look at themselves now and they have very little pitching and a farm system devoid of a whole ton of talent. Can they win it all this year? Perhaps. Had we taken the same gamble would KW be getting railed here for something so reckless and short-sighted, absolutely. But I guess the grass is always greener....right now, Mark Shapiro/Dave Dombrowski/Billy Smith/Dayton Moore are all geniuses, while the Stanford guy is dumb as rocks. Its not worth arguing now, because there simply is no way KW is going to go into the 2008 season with the current roster. We shall see, but unless he can significantly upgrade the roster, he should at least consider at the very least a partial rebuild.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 01:43 PM) Formulating a laundry list of only the negative things that Kenny has done (including some that are still pending- give some of these kids a chance still) does nothing to change my opinion on things. I certainly am not happy with the outcome of things, but there are a lot of solid GM's not happy with the outcomes of their teams right now. In my viewpoint, the things Kenny has done since the World Series title, AT THE TIME THE DECISIONS WERE MADE, have been for the most part, very solid decisions. Reviewing them now is not a fair method of critiquing him. There were more than a few people that have questioned his moves at the time he's made them the past couple of years. Most "experts" predicted the White Sox to win the Central in 2006, but after that, not many predicted much out of them in 2007. It could just be posturing but he can't possibly think just adding Linebrink will fix the bullpen. Who is going to eat Garland's 200 innings? Floyd? Danks runs out of gas after about 100 innings and he should be good for 175 in 2008? Maybe some GMs aren't happy with the outcomes of their teams, and maybe there are several teams with a $108 million payroll that lost 90 games but still drew a top 5 or 6 attendance figure in team history, but they aren't popping off in the press about a team that finished 16 games in front of them acquiring a player they were willing to gut what was left of their farm system to acquire that it was good, that it meant they would be better able to compete against a team that in the past year and a half has been nothing short of awful. They aren't popping off they can't spend $1 when they only have $.50. Guess what, the reason he only has the $.50 is his fault. As I said, I'm not giving up on 2008 yet. He can still put together a decent team. His ego, not wanting to admit he was wrong on players or combinations of players, probably will stand in his way. He needs to make either wholesale changes or expensive roster additions or both. Why do I have the feeling that Rowand will get a bloated contract and at the press conference KW will state he was the first option all along.