Dick Allen

Jose Canseco

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 03:32 PM) But, here's the one part of that point. Teams like the White Sox, the Cardinals, and even the Red Sox are winning series now not because they try to fix all their holes through FA, but because they've made a number of smart moves that sneak around guys like Rowand who go for top dollar off of a career year. The Red Sox have picked up guys like Ortiz, Lowell, and Beckett and signed them to affordable deals well before they hit FA, and they've plugged in a few intelligently developed pieces like the rookies we saw this year. The Cards struck gold with some pitchers no one would come close to. The White Sox got a bunch of guys in at well below market price due to injuries, attitude, or Kaz Matsui. If the White Sox signed rowand, it might have increased our chances of making the playoffs this year by 1-2%. Even with Rowand, we'd still need an awful lot of other stuff to go right. That's, quite simply, why I really dislike the idea of trying to fix last year's debacle through FA. Play the kids, and at least see if you get lucky. If you do, then at worst you've got cheap talent or trade bait, and if you don't, then you see which holes you still need to fill. You make a great point. It just doesn't fit with KW's win now approach. The White Sox don't like to pay full price. It can be argued the only one who is getting it now would be Linebrink and they have a $100 million payroll and still stink.

I think Dye and Buerhle may be the last "hometown discounts" KW will ever get done.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 02:11 PM) Serious question here... because so many people seem to have this opinion, would you all rather return to the Ron Schuler years where we'd maybe make one decent trade a winter, but you could pretty much be assured that we wouldn't be after any major players? I know the knock on Kenny is all of the sudden is that he is "missing" on all of the players, but the fact that he is chasing them, even when the odds are against him in all of these cases just tells me he is willing to try to do whatever it takes to try to improve. Think about it. Torii Hunter was supposedly going to get blown away from this huge offer from Texas. You all heard the impression Kenny made on Hunter, and how close he was to coming here. Miguel Cabrera was supposedly going to the Angels. In steps Kenny, and he was leading the race, until Florida changed the terms and insisted we take on Dontrelle Willis. Fukudome was supposedly only going to consider the Cubs, yet Kenny goes out and matches the Cubs offer, only to fail because the guy wanted to pad his own ego with the #1 and having to play RF, plus being the #1 Japanese player on the northside. What do these all have in common? Kenny fought for all three of the guys dispite the odds. A guy like Ron Schuler would have never been heard from on any of these stages. He would have been happy to plug in some rookies, and some type b/c free agents, and move on having no expecations of anything for the next season. Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them. Its almost like people would be happier if we weren't ever mentioned at all in connection with players. Give me the guy going for the gold ring, instead of the guy who is content to see how long he can go around on the merri-go-round. KW has never signed a big time full priced free agent from another team. If the standard is Schueler, we obviously don't expect much. KW's problem has never been effort, but effort means little at this stage, results matter. KW needs to have a plan that actually has a good chance of occurring. Hunter's praise, while nice, matters little. He praised just about everyone and took the Angels money. Fukudome was going to the Cubs. Nice effort, but maybe that's what they want you to think. He promised a dynamic offense. The offseason isn't over yet. If he doesn't deliver, something needs to be done.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 12:05 PM) Fair enough...I was just rehashing what the brilliant BRUCE! Levine said... I know. Bruce likes to make things a little dramatic.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 09:35 AM) Levine just stated that the Rangers made the best offer at over $50 million, while the Sox and Cubs both came in at 4/$48 million. Apparently, Fukudome wanted to play RF. Out of respect for Jermaine Dye, he did not want to cause Jermaine to play a different position on account of him. Basically, it sounds as if he did not want to play CF for us. Another factor was that he wanted to be the first Japanese player to play for the Cubs. Thus, he requested uniform #1. I think the real reason Fukudome requested #1 is because that is the number he wore in Japan.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) At this point, I would much rather go into the season with this failed attempt at competing. I do not want a rebuilding process to start now for one reason, and one reason only. KW is still here. Let the season play out, and then after we lose another 90 games KW will be fired. If KW is heading a rebuilding process we will not be rebuilt before 2015. I don't see anyway JR doesn't give KW a shot at rebuilding. The only way he leaves is if he quits, at least for a few years IMO.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 10:07 AM) Sooooo. Kw offers the exact same amount of money as the cubs, wants to put him in cf like all of you do, and fukudome decides he'd rather play for the cubs because he wants to be in rf, and be the first japanese player for the franchise, and your reaction is of disgust and anger towards kw? At least be a little rational in your thoughts. There appears to be either a lot of sexual frustration going on, or a lot of misinformed angry little kids lashing out. What would be troubling is if he's offering the same amount as other teams, that the targets are choosing the other teams. Fuk to the Cubs has been a foregone conclusion for a while.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 08:19 AM) The funny thing about that headline is, the only reason Hendry has "deep pockets" is that he is spending someone else's money. Its an odd position to be in, but there it is. He basically has NO pockets, just a pile of phantom cash to spend. The next owner of the Cubs is going to face some awful choices in a couple years - raise ticket prices in a huge way, or become the Baltimore Orioles, saddled with those long term, overpaying contracts. They jacked up ticket prices over 20% this year, but because they had their playoff money in and only 1 playoff game was played at home, Cub fans didn't notice. The White Sox raised prices after a horrible year. They really have their work cut out for them.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 08:17 AM) When every single CF signs and is "over paid" guess what? That's the market. That isn't overpaid, that is the current price. Anderson and count the money! Rest easy we're in fourth place but haven't signed any bad contracts To put some more wood on the fire, Steve Stone said Cleveland is the frontrunner for Haren.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:47 PM) It's okay, fellas, this just puts the Cubs in a better position to compete with us. I'm thinking more and more about the Garland-Cabrera trade. I'm thinking Kenny acted much too quickly. He said he had deals on the table where we would've gotten prospects back -- hell, I don't think it's a stretch to say the Sox could've gotten Milledge for Garland and somebody else (or some cash). We're so f***ed right now. I'm gonna laugh when Kenny tries to tell the fans we're going to compete in 2008 with Jerry Owens in CF. The plan will soon be revealed.

QUOTE(frankie5angels @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) It doesn't matter to those teams if they are set in the outfield or not. If the guy was thought of as a can't miss type of guy who was gonna come here and be a stud, both the Red Sox and the Yankees would have made a play for him. Money is no object to them. How come they didn't get Ichiro? What about Miguel Cabrera? Torii Hunter? Why aren't they after Aaron Rowand?

QUOTE(jenks45monster @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:42 PM) Not to mention Curt Schilling as an inning eater for at least one more season. I forgot about Schilling. For some reason I don't think Theo has Danks and Floyd as top of the rotation guys.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) You think they will be keeping Santana around? Or extending him? Its possible, but it seems unlikely to me. What's sad is Pohlad has more money than anyone. I think they will deal him. They should be real good in a couple of years. It kind of reminds me of when Cleveland rebuilt and dealt Colon. I think the Twins have a head start on that team.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:38 PM) Just responding to another post. I didn't mean anything by it, its just my motto.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:38 PM) I don't think he'll be near that level in Year 1 after that surgery, and if they trade Santana, that's clearly a youth movement preparing for the 2010 season in their new stadium. Makes sense. If they aren't going to win in 2008, and Santana isn't going to re-sign, they might as well get players that will be there for 5 or 6 years for him. It still boggles my mind Boston was hung up on not giving up Ellsbury in a trade for him. Santana, Beckett, Dice-k and Bucholz would be tough to beat.

QUOTE(frankie5angels @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:36 PM) They'll regret it next year. If this was an elite Japanese player, the yankees or the red sox would have been all over this guy. They were never metioned to even have the slightest interst in him. Because they are set in the OF, and are probably saving some room on the payroll for Santana.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) I'd probably open it up from anywhere 3rd to 5th no matter what we do the rest of the off-season, battling with KC and Minny for these spots. I think we'll make some sort of acquistion in CF, have an open battle for LF with Quentin the likely winner, and move Crede for a prospect (hopefully Uribe too, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him open the season here).... I really don't see a serious starting pitching come here, maybe a non-roster invitee with some potential upside, but I really think that the Sox think that Floyd/Denks will be fine in the rotation (I don't). Who cares what place you come in if you don't make the playoffs?

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) Twins still have Santana. With him, they're easily better than the Sox are right now. Hopefully they'll trade him and Nathan prior to the year. If Liriano comes back anywhere near where he was, the Twins can still be pretty good.

QUOTE(jenks45monster @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:28 PM) Fukudome to the Cubs really surprised me since, IMO, he is overpaid for someone who hasn't played 1 game in the MLB yet and since the Cubs really don't have to history with Japanese players for as long as I can remember. The Sox had signed Gooch and Shingo in recent years. Sweet Lou had Ichiro, Sasuki and the reliever Hasagawa I think in Seattle. I bet he's a good selling point.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:19 PM) How many has Fukudome had? How many did Ichiro have when he came over? Scouting is pretty good with these guys coming over. Kaz Matsui was pretty much a bust, but he's still getting some nice money. Ichiro was everything advertised, as was Hideki Matsui and Iguchi. I think Fukudome probably will play close to where he is projected.

QUOTE(frankie5angels @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) Who do you and Fathom suggest they get to play center?? I am just curious. If KW would have signed Hunter to a 5/95 mil contract you guys would have b****ed about that. Saying he overpaid. If we would have given up the farm for Cabrera, I am sure you guys would have said we mortgaged the future for one guy. It's like KW can't win no matter what he does with you guys. I wouldn't mind having Rowand back. It will solidify centerfield for the next 5 years, and I believe last year was a breakout year for him, and he will continue to put up similar numbers. I would like them to rebuild. Trade Konerko, Dye, Buerhle, Contreras, Vazquez, Cabrera. Play for 3 years from now. It worked for Larry Himes in 1987. This was a horrible team last year. I can live with Owens in CF if they are rebuilding. If they are trying to win, they are kidding themselves if he's there everyday.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:14 PM) If they can get Rowand for, say, $54 over 4 years plus some sort of team option, I'd be pretty happy. When looking at it in context with the Hunter contract, I'd say that would be a steal. But that would still leave the team improved over 2007, but probably not improved enough. More is needed. There will be trades. 2 SS and 2 thirdbaseman. I just hope KW is bluffing about the pitching being fine as is. What did Levine say the Sox offered Rowand 4/55? That's a lot of cash for a guy who really has had only 2 better than average seasons.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) 4 years I could maybe live with, but that 5th year option would have to be a team option, and not a player option. I imagine Rowand's probably after $55-$60M over 4 years right now. I wish I was better at baseball.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:03 PM) Rosenthal said Sox are still keying on Rowand, and might offer 4 years with an option. This reminds me of my head on car crash several years ago. A guy fell asleep at the wheel and nailed me hard. I saw it coming buy I had nowhere to go, it was like superslow motion and you knew what was going to happen.