Dick Allen

QUOTE(briguy27 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 10:09 PM) they spent 60 mill over 5 years on paulie walnuts. that was a dumb move. sure, i didnt want to see our ALCS mvp and franchise player leave after winning the world series, but 60 was too much money Letting him walk then would have really been a black eye for the franchise just when they reached the pinnacle. Sometimes you have to go out on a limb which they did with him. The contract is probably too long, but I really can't fault them for giving it to him.

For a team with a payroll over $100 million, the Sox sure do have a lot of guys who really are below average.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:59 PM) Konerko is out now. Who is our first baseman? Andy Gonzalez. He does it all.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:59 PM) Superstar play by Jeter....not! He really lacks range, but he is hurting.

It would be nice to rally here but if they do they better get the lead so Ozzie will use Jenks. If they just tie it or get within a run, the rest of the bullpen would have to hold them.

Something has to be done. Bringing up Charlotte Knights or Birmingham Barons isn't the answer.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:47 PM) i wish we could sign harold to a two week contract. I was at the game when Harold got injured taking a pitch.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:44 PM) Yeah, I can imagine the season ticket holders reacting well to the trades of Konerko, Iguchi, Crede and Dye coming into this season. I don't think season ticketholders are liking this brand of ball. I am one, but not a bandwagoner. There will be quite a few jumping ship after this season if it continues like this. If no star power is added, you'll get a nice view of the green seats on your flatscreens in 2008.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:47 PM) I don't care if its AJ, but Ozzie needs to put a guy at the top of the order that actually gets on base. If Owens must play, bat him 8th or 9th. Yes.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:42 PM) Loiaza at least had something of a successful track record in the earlier part of his career, and he always had good stuff...it was just that adding the cutter in 2003 made him an All-Star caliber pitcher. He was always pretty mediocre, but your right, his "stuff" was always was highly regarded. His cutter was great in 2003, but while he's been serviceable when healthy, he's never been lights out like that season. He lost how many 1-0 or 2-1 games or he would have had one of the greatest records in the last 50 years that season. I don't care if its AJ, but Ozzie needs to put a guy at the top of the order that actually gets on base. If Owens must play, bat him 8th or 9th.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:41 PM) That would require the Sox trading someone at peak value. That's a foreign idea to KW. You're right. He really believes they "turned a corner". That was his quote about Aardsma is spring training. He did turn a few more corners all the way to Charlotte. We will always have 2005. If that didn't happen, I'm pretty sure most people here would think KW is an idiot.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:35 PM) So you wanted to replace Thornton after 2006? Interesting. I do think its time that when a guy who has mostly sucked his entire career comes up with a good season to maybe lower the expectations the following season. See Loaisa, Cotts, Politte, now Thornton.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:09 PM) Porcello or Main? yes

They should go to rapid fire picks, and take a 10 minute break every 10 picks or so so ESPN can feel they are a part of it.

Did anyone read the article on how its hard to project college pitchers because the balls that are used in college have much higher seams, and make sliders and curves a lot more wicked than they will be in the majors. Supposedly the ball is different from the minors to the majors as well.

every team knows who they are going to take 5 seconds after the team before it selects. You can't trade the picks, so it really doesn't make a lot of sense to keep it a secret.

every team knows who they are going to take 5 seconds after the team before it selects. You can't trade the picks, so it really doesn't make a lot of sense to keep it a secret.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 12:16 PM) Last minute, you still got a couple hours at least. My pick is gonna be: Josh Smoker. It goes pretty quick, doesn't it?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 12:07 PM) Once again, that didn't make it a bad trade to make at the time it was made. Considering how bad Vazquez was the second half of 2004 with the Yankees, considering how mediocre his 2005 season was, considering how he gave up a lot of homers and would be coming into a bandbox, considering Ozzie had to talk him into pitching in the AL, (he originally didn't want to be traded to the Sox because he wanted to stay in the NL), considering the talent going to Arizona, and considering Vazquez's contract, there are several reasons for someone to believe it was a bad trade at the time it was made.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) So if Buerhle and Jose would have pitched anywhere near the way they did the prior season, Javy couldn't have been some help to us? Especially the way he was pitching down the stretch? He wasn't even .500. I also doubt it was a coincidence he picked it up as soon as the White Sox postseason chances went to approximately 0.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 11:49 AM) You can't fault him because you are using everything that's happened in hindsight as evidence of why it shouldn't have been done. I try to look at what evidence was available at the time the trade was made as evidence of whether it should have been done or not. I want a good GM, which Kenny is. You want a fortune teller. Good luck. The team didn't win last year because of the starting pitching. The starting pitching Kenny went out and fortified prior to the season. What the hell do you want? At some point, it comes down to the damn players not performing. It takes a fortune teller to conclude Vazquez is hopelessly mediocre? See his 2004 and 2005 seasons and get back to me. Then his 2006 season which the team wins 90 games, he has the lead in all but 3 or 4 starts and doesn't finish .500. He is not very good. He strikes out a lot of guys, but he's not very good. Giving him an extension just compounds the mistake.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 11:34 AM) Nonetheless, you can't blame KW for making the trade at the time he made it. And holding it against Javy for the rest of his White Sox career because he was 1 of 4 guys who weren't getting the job done when we needed them doesn't seem quite fair to me either. Which is probably what led him to react that way. He probably has tried damn near everything and is running out of answers. There comes a point when nothing else can be done. Why can't you fault him? Because you say so? He also gave up El Duque and Vizcaino and relied on Politte and Cotts and an injured Hermanson to repeat their 2005 performances. It was a dumb trade. Now 2 years before he loses control of Vazquez he signs him to an extension. This isn't some 25 year old kid that just needs a couple of breaks and he'll find himself. He's hopelessly around .500 just about every season.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 07:26 AM) Except he's only making $9.5 million, from the Sox. And there are 100 more pressing problems that can be pointed out, besides the results from a fourth starter whose overall stats would be much better than the average MLB 4th starter. It is what it is. We won this exact same type of game last year when our offense scored four runs for Javy early in the game. Expecting our starters to give up 0 or 1 runs per game is simply unrealistic. The harder they try to be too "fine," that's when you'll start seeing 3-5 runs given up per game by starters. He was the one who got the Sox behing 4 early. Look at Vazquez's White Sox career. He has had the lead in the vast majority of games he has pitched. Last season he had the lead in all but 3 or 4 starts and still sucked. He is what he is. Stop making excuses for his overpaid, overhyped ass.

If Crede has the surgery now, I wonder what he'll think of Boras for making sure he didn't do it last winter.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 03:43 AM) Last I checked, Javy had to throw a shutout to win tonight, yet you two are putting any blame on him at all? Just brilliant. He didn't have a good outing, but 4 runs allowed in 6 innings against the 4th best offense and perhaps the most talented lineup in baseball isn't a bad days work. Rip the deal all you want to, but mentioning Vazquez's name in a negative light and ripping him at all in this thread is an absolute joke. And when posters b**** for minor leaguers like that, they are b****ing for Jake Peavy or Jeremy Bonderman or even Matt friggin Garza. Pitchers with Buehrle and Garland's stuff can never dominate over the course of a year, but they can pitch well. Pitchers with Contreras's stuff in 2005 and Vazquez now and maybe Gio have that chance. No one in AAA brings that, and there might be like 5 pitchers in the entire organization that bring that as a starter, and that's a big if. Right now, this is about organizational ineptitude, as KW seems to want power arms that get a ton of strikeouts and Cooper is a pitching coach that tells his pitchers to pitch to contact. You really can't have it both ways. This organization needs to get on the same page up and down. That's a 6.00 ERA and it sucks. He threw so many pitches he had to be lifted. At $12.5 million its not crazy to expect more. Excepting this as not a bad game from him and looking at his strikeouts is something teams have been doing the last 4 seasons with him. The object of the game is to win. Its nice to see DJ question his concentration last night.