Dick Allen

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) Not nearly as much as the offense. It's just amplified because they're called upon in a tight situation nearly every game because the offense can't score enough to make quality starts stand up easily. The only two victories that the bullpen wasn't called on with the Sox leading by 3 or less were the comlete games by Buehrle and Contreras. Everything else was You can't win games like that. You need a breather. And not just once every 6 weeks. You need a laugher probably once a week to really have a healthy bullpen. The offense just hasn't allowed the bullpen any low leverage innings this season. The starters have been going 6 or 7 innings almost automatically. In 8 of Jenks' 13 saves, he's entered the game with a 3 run lead. I think its a stretch to think the bullpen needs a breather.

QUOTE(Chi Town Sox @ May 19, 2007 -> 09:21 PM) no felix diaz won the game at the cell, i was present although he did lose at wrigley that july That's correct. I was thinking of the game at the Urinal.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 19, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) "if they had a stellar bullpen" How do you go about building a stellar bullpen? Usually, that's lucked into. Cliff Politte's career ERA is 4.40, but he was the setup man for the stellar 2005 bullpen, posting a 2.01 ERA and holding opponents to a .181 batting average. Neal Cotts' career ERA is 4.43, but in 2005 he finished at 1.94 and opponents hit .174 against him. Hermanson's career ERA: 4.21. Hermanson's 2005 ERA: 2.04. For the Twins last year, wasn't Dennys Reyes awesome for them? The guy has a 4.48 career ERA, yet posted a 0.89(!) ERA last year. Remember Guillermo Mota? LaTroy Hawkins? Whatever happened to them? This bullpen isn't on the level it was at in 2005, but they can still turn it around. Look at the ERAs of these guys before they started getting hit around. You telling me Aardsma didn't look that good before yesterday? Aardsma has had a few shaky outings and has been great others. Basically just like his short career has gone. KW built the bullpen and impressed a lot of people with the velocity, but who has had sustained success in the major leagues? Aardsma? No. Thornton? No. Sisco? No. MacDougal? No. Logan? No. Masset? No. Jenks? Some, but he was less than dominant the second half last year. Forget the radar readings, chances are this bullpen is going to struggle. Most have had control issues before or they wouldn't have been available in the bargain bin. The White Sox don't want to pay the going rate for guys who have strung together a few quality years of work together, and that's their prerogitive. I don't understand though how you give Vazquez all that money when you had him under your control through 2008, and go cheap on the bullpen. Vazquez will be a question mark every season he is a White Sox. You could have 2 or maybe even 3 quality relievers for the money you will be paying him. If you go the way the Sox have gone, chances are the bullpen is going to fail you more than you think. To answer your question about building a bullpen, spending some money on it is a start. The 6 bullpen guys make a combined $3,675,000 a year. Thats 6 guys making just a tad more than Pods, COMBINED. A lot of people in the know thought Justin Speier would be a White Sox in 2007. The White Sox didn't want to pay the going rate. The Angels got him. The Angels have a good bullpen. And you are right, a lot of things went right for the Sox in 2005. Things we may never see again. There was a lot of luck involved, but that doesn't take anything away from the accomplishment. Every team that has ever won a WS has been very lucky.

QUOTE(GarlandFan20 @ May 19, 2007 -> 09:08 PM) Anyone remember Felix Diaz starting the third game of the Cubs/Sox series at the cell? I think it was in '04 and the team was down 2 games also. It kind of reminds me of that. Maybe Masset will hold his own. It was the second game of the series and the Sox lost. I'm pretty sure it was the one with 3 rain delays and then they called it when it actually was sunny out because the dump was more unplayable than your average little league field with no tarp.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 19, 2007 -> 09:03 PM) I've said a few times in another thread, Aardsma's ERA was 1.64 before this mess. MacDougal's ERA was 3.09 less than two weeks ago, then he allowed three runs without recording an out to raise the ERA to 5.40, where it's at now. He did, however, combine for 1.2 innings, no hits, no runs, a walk and two strikeouts in his two appearances before yesterday's. He seemed to finding the zone again just fine, you have to remember bouncing 55-footers is the usual for him. Friday's just came at a bad time. Boone Logan...he's still young, still figuring it out. On Lee's grand slam today, Logan had fallen behind 3-1 with nowhere to put him. He needs to get ahead of guys. Thornton's coming around -- six outings this month, and he's allowed no runs and a hit. Walking nobody, too. Yeah, he throws a lot of first pitch fastballs, but he really only throws fastballs. Sisco was at a 3.72 ERA as recently as May 12 before he allowed five runs combined in his last two appearances. Masset, he was at a more respectable 4.62 ERA before four runs in 2/3 innings May 13. What I'm saying is, it's been a bad run recently for the bullpen. If you're going to consider the overall numbers of a bullpen, look at their recent performances. When it's been bad, it's been BAD, but the bullpen shut down the Yankees in Games 1 and 3 of that series. So don't overreact. I'm sorry. The bullpen has been asked to get fewer outs than any bullpen in the major leagues, and they aren't getting it done. As Bill Melton said a week or 2 ago, even when they aren't giving up runs, the majority of them are struggling. It does not bode well. We are a quarter of the way through the season, and when the Sox play in weather above 40 degrees, the bullpen has been a gas can. Something needs to get straightened out quickly, or kiss the season goodbye. There is absolutely no reason the White Sox shouldn't have won at least 1 of the last 2 games, and if they had a stellar bullpen, the bullpen KW and Ozzie insisted they had, it would be the White Sox going for a sweep tomorrow. I have no confidence in Masset tomorrow, I am just thankful the wind will be blowing in, and hoping it keeps the score down .

I think tomorrow could be interesting. The wind will be blowing in, so runs should be tough to come by. I hope Zambrano doesn't have his control and struggles early like he's done several times this season. A 3 or 4 run lead should be safe tomorrow even for the White Sox bullpen.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 07:39 PM) Agreed, although I'd also point out I think our bullpen arms have just as much, maybe more trouble with throwing QUALITY strikes than they do say avoiding walks. It seems like any strike our pen guys throw lately are right down the middle in the wheelhouse. That goes hand in hand with lack of control. Maybe if they were throwing 97 like advertised, they could get away with it more often. I wonder why White Sox pitchers seem to lose velocity quickly.

People were more concerned about the radar gun when putting the bullpen together than effectiveness. A lot of people on this site bought it as well. They really shouldn't complain.

The White Sox bullpen sucks. It sucked last year, and its really no better this season. The starters are doing fairly well. Vazquez melted down a little bit, but the wind was blowing out and he kept the Sox in the game.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:04 AM) Wind blowing out doesn't favor us today. Probably not, but I do like that it looks like Derek Lee won't be starting. Vazquez hopefully fans a lot of guys. Marquis doesn't fan many, some lazy flyballs hopefully will find their way over the weeds and into the basket.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:02 AM) If Hall is at DH because Thome is on the bench, that means AJ is behind the plate and I'm guessing that there is also a lefty on the mound. Historically Thome is a better hitter than AJ against LHP, so it makes no sense. This board is full of b****ing about Thome against LHP last season. The bottom line with Thome is when he's hot, let him face everything, when he's not, sitting him against some lefties isn't a bad idea. He needs to get back soon, and stay healthy.

The wind will be howling straight out. I'll be at this game. I expect Marquis and Vazquez to have higher ERAs after today.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:31 PM) Well based on this we should of never fired Von Joshua. The hitting coach doesnt matter. Hell I keep hearing the manager doesnt matter also. Sleepy should still be here as well. If these players now all of a sudden suck because they suck on their own. Then KW should have a fire sale and get out why the getting is good. Ward couldn't get along with anyone. If he was as well-liked as Walker as a human being, he wouldn't have been shown the door. The White Sox had more versatile hitters back then, and they had guys who could take extra bases on the basepaths.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) Righties bat .197 against MacDougal and lefties hit .417 against him. So its seems that every lefty looks like a Joe Mauer in a groove against him. While righties look like Rob Mackowiak. I would rather face Mack insteda of Mauer. But hey maybe Ozzie's magic 8 bal knows a lot more than stats. I have never been a fan of Ozzie, but if Buerhle was left in, or Thornton was brought in or Aardsma or Logan or anyone else, if Pagan got a hit, and he's basically scorching everything right now, Ozzie would have been a dufus.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:19 PM) No what I sad is that some players gain more power as they mature, as in most power hitters. Maybe Greg helped him lift and pull more and gain more power. Whatever. He was a near 300 hitter with near 30 dongs before Greg signed on. So he had little to do with the hitting product that is in front of you today. If a team hits well, and has a good approach I give kudos to the coach and the players. When some of the players hit bad, then its those players. When every single player cant hit collectively, and have the same exact problem then what is it. Just a coincidence. The White Sox have assembled a team that has a lot of the same types of hitters. They don't have guys who slap the ball around except Pods who went from 12 homers in Milwaukee to 0 with the Sox. Konerko was brutal at the beginning of 2003 and hit .275 the second half of that season. Isn't that when Walker took over? He also hit a career high .315 last year. Dye hit .320 with 44 homers last year. If the Sox had the Texas Rangers hitting coach, you would give him the credit, but since its Walker, its probably because Dye "matured". AJ is an example of a guy who has gained power and has changed his approach a bit. The guy is 240 pounds. I read 5 years ago that scouts thought he would be a 25-30 homer guy eventually. I think its mostly on the players, good or bad, and a hitting coach can help. But to say Walker is the reason Dye and Konerko are both hitting over 100 points lower this year doesn't make sense to me.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:05 PM) The guy up is a switch hitter. You bring in a guy that is right handed, forcing the hitter to switch to the left side anad he cant get out lefties. To say this was anything but a dumb move is beyond me. Pagan is hitting .412 with 2 homers in 17 ABs vs. LHP so far against lefties and hitting .600 against righties. If MacDougal isn't ever going to be able to get out LH hitters, the Sox are in big trouble.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) If you are telling me that Konerko and Dye cant hit because of Thome's missing presence then I question your logic. When Thome was here, they would walk Thome so they could get to one of the automatic outs behind him. Until Konerko and Dye prove they can hit, the only thing Thome will be is another baserunner to strand. Thome collects walks in bunches. When he's hitting well, he also walks a ton because he is seeing the ball so well. At the beginning of last season he was walking a ton too when he was hot. Konerko and Dye were hitting well then. I really don't think he was being pitched around, at least not most of the time. I don't think his absence is the reason the other 2 have been horrible. The Sox would be hitting more than .220 or whatever it is now if he hadn't been injured though. QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) Konerko had terrific numbers with the previous hitting coaches also. The only thing Walk did for Konerko is give him a boost in power. But then again, his maturity as a slugger could of did that also. Crede had one good year, and he was a guy who hit like crazy in the minors. Him struggling here is a big disappointment. Thome was healthy. If Thome is healthy he hits. Walk has nothing to do with that. AJ used to be an all fields hitter, Walk sure helped him cure that. So when they do well its because of the player, but when they struggle, its the hitting coach? The thing about hitting or not hitting in the White Sox case is you can know exactly what you are doing wrong and work on it and work on it, and not be able to do anything about it until someday it just clicks. I do think the Sox should think about adding some offense before they get too far behind.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ May 18, 2007 -> 09:58 PM) Thome was with them as they declined every month since last June. Thome was with us when we sucked early this season. Thome;'s absence isn't the source of our ills. Everyone else's absence is. Come on, DA. Someone has to be held accountable and you can't fire the players. But you know that this organization's hitting approach as a whole is bad If there was no doubt in my mind that a different hitting coach would make all the difference, I would say fire him. Chances are, if they brought someone else in the results would be the same. They players like working with the guy. That wasn't the case with Joshua and Ward. That's also why Walt Hriniak was let go about 10 years ago. He was gruff, and really tough on the young players. Konerko has had excellent numbers with Walker as his hitting coach. Dye has been terrific. AJ hasn't hit for as high of an average, but has been pretty productive and has had several huge hits. Thome made a nice comeback last season. Crede exceded everyone's expectations from Sept 05 to Sept 06. I just don't see how Walker can go stupid overnight. The offense is built to hit homers. That's not Greg Walker, that's KW. The leadoff man has a pitiful OBP, and has had one for several years. By the end of the season, most of these guys will be at their career norms, if not better.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 09:43 PM) The entire team is all not hitting. What is it, a coincidence? f***ing luck? Or maybe a large scale conspiracy. Ward and Von Joshua were both fired for teams that couldnt hit that would look like the 27 yankees compared to our group. He is now working with Sweeney on power. The entire team cant hit, and he is trying to make our rookie line drive swing guy hit with power. Is he f***ing nuts. They are also playing without Thome, and for some reason, the genius GM has a roster that has even had to resort to Brian Anderson DHing in his absence. I just don't think Walker has gone from a decent hitting coach, if you look at individual numbers the past couple of seasons, to the village idiot overnight. The Cubs worked with Ryne Sandburg on hitting for power, and the Twins did the same with Kirby Puckett. I really doubt Walker wants Sweeney swinging from his heels. He probably wants him a little more aggressive.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 09:40 PM) Lefties hit Mac very well, and Pagan hits righties better. Guillen stated after the game that Pagan hits lefties better. He is using only a myopic set of stats this year, .500 versus lefties, versus .high .300s against righties. Over his career Pagan has hit better from the left side. Pinella must of nearly wet the bed when we brought a righty out to flip him around, especially one who struggles against lefty batters. Buerhle needed to be lifted. If Ozzie brought in a lefty and Derek Lee came to the plate, how dumb would everyone have called that move?

If its the hitting coach that makes Paul Konerko hit .310 instead of .190, and Jermaine Dye .320 instead of .215, the guy should be paid more than A-Rod.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 18, 2007 -> 09:10 PM) 4 strikeouts out of the last 6 outs of the game. WTF does this guy do for a living. And I have heard comments that they are working on Sweeneys power. Thats it. The man has to go. The minute you start f***ing with a kids swing, before fixing the entire team who cant hits swing then you have no clue what you are doing or how to manage priorities. To me, Sweeney's power can wait how about fixing the contact issue, or Konerko, or Dye or the rest of the hitless wonders. FIRE GREG WALKER NOW!!!!! On the park gun at Weeds on the Wall field. I had to look to find it. Its on the light bar on the 3rd base side. They dont use it on every pitch. Logan was hitting 95 on the gun with his fastbal. Mike McDougal was hitting 91. Something is not right with that boy, he cant throw hard and he cant throw strikes. Almost everyone in the bullpen has really struggled at some point already this season. The starters are really doing a job. They are almost a lock to go at least 6 innings every game. Melton was talking about the bullpen last week, saying even when they aren't giving up runs, they aren't having easy innings. I just hope its better than its showed, and better than I thought it would be. A lot of people got caught up in the radar gun with these guys before the season started. The problems are, the velocity isn't there for several of these guys so far, and really none of them have much of a track record of major league success. Most of them have had their moments, but everyone of them has question marks. I really don't fault Ozzie for bringing in MacDougal initially. For all we know, Aardsma might have had the same results. I do question letting him continue in the 8th after he showed he wasn't going to be effective and it was a 1 run game. Dempster may have had a tougher time breathing had the game been closer in the 9th. I almost think Ozzie is anticipating having to use the bullpen a lot on Sunday with Contreras having a shorter recovery time, and also Vazquez tends to fall apart quickly after cruising along, so that may be why he didn't want to go through few guys today, but this was a game that they should have won.

AJ's clip was on the website as well. He really didn't say anything controversial at all, just that he was dissappointed he wasn't playing and he didn't need a rest. I don't know what happened between AJ's and Ozzie's appearances, thats the big question, and when Ozzie came on and North said, "hey Ozzie, what's going on?" Ozzie may not have known at that time he was on the air when he replied, "shut the f*** up". Listening to sports radio shows when you are a manager is only going to piss you off. Ozzie should get some Rush CDs to listen to on his ride to the park.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 18, 2007 -> 03:58 PM) I see. I didn't realize we went undefeated in games against teams with worse records in 2005. You're missing my point. In a game you are up 3-1 in the bottom of the 7th with 2 out and nobody on, you need to win.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 18, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) Honestly, this site is almost unbearable these days, and I don't understand it at all. We keep winning series and some people will never stop being negative about every little thing no matter what the sox do in terms of the big picture. Seriously, things like "this team is finished" and "might as well not bother showing up" and "fire kenny and ozzie right now" should be reserved for times when we are: a) losing 7 of 10 B) in 4th or 5th place c) losing series d) losing a single series this month e) losing series When you are in a tough division, you can't afford to be losing games like this. Games you should win.