Dick Allen

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 05:06 PM) I was hoping otherwise. But I am starting to wonder if there is something to that. Anyone know how Bobby threw in spring last year? He was in the low 90s, not impressive at all. He did pick it up a bit once the season began, but they blamed most of it on his being out of shape. No one really says anything about it, but Jenks post ASB ERA was a DFA's Shingoesque number.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 04:55 PM) How many PB and WP was that from Jenks in one inning??? That is worrisome. With the earlier tightness, I believe its all a sign of an injury.

The Bears picked up Archleta from Washington for a 6th round pick, and re-worked his contract. Could be the end for Mike Brown.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 19, 2007 -> 06:09 PM) Jason Schmidt put up a 6.50 ERA in the NL his first 85 innings. Roy Halladay put up an ERA of 10 in 13 starts in 2000. I'm sure there are more examples out there. The kid may very well wind up sucking, but 100 innings over 3 seasons isn't going to convince me very well. Greg Maddux first 186 innings, 8-16 5.59 ERA Tom Glavine first 245 innings, 9-21 4.76 ERA That's in the NL no DH.

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 06:26 PM) We won in 05 because of pitching, and doing what the situation dictated. We didn't win the last game of the world series with long balls. We won it doing the right thing at the right time. That team had a way of finding ways to win, and they did it any way they could, with or without the HR. Yes, the Sox hit a lot of HR's (and have for a while), aided by our bandbox ballpark...but you have to win it inning by inning -- not always swinging for the fence, no matter what park you play in. I just don't buy into sitting on HR's as your only way of winning ballgames. And no, I also don't buy into smartball/smallball -- 05 was a combination of everything at the same time to achieve success, not only Hrs. At the point of the season last year when the White Sox hit their 200th homer, I think that was the team total in 2005, their team runs scored was almost identical, like with 5 or 6 to the amount of runs they had scored with 200 homers in 2005.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 06:26 PM) Just because hitters can't hit it doesn't mean he's throwing strikes though either. Regardless of who the 5th starter is, there's going to be inconsistency throughout the year, be it Haeger, Danks, or Floyd. Granted it only was 18+ innings last season, but the AL hit .182 against him.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 06:25 PM) Lieber is a 37 year old pitcher who got rocked in a horrible NL. I think I will pass on that. He had groin issues last year. He won 17 I think in 2005. He's only signed for 1 season, and for a 5th guy, a veteran who doesn't walk a lot of people, I think he would have to be considered. I doubt they do. Ironically, he is the guy KW thought Todd Ritchie would be when he traded for him.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 06:15 PM) Trade bait? I hope not, but I do find it strange how management (ie, Cooper) seems to have the 'race' between Floyd and Danks. If they traded him and got a guy like Lieber, I'd be fine with it. There is no doubt in my mind though that Charlie would outperform Danks and Floyd in the 5th spot in 2007. Considering all of the White Sox overhyped prospects from the late 90's on, you know the prospects as a whole that were ranked #1 and ultimately got KW the farm director, the GM job, the one who wasn't as hyped as all the others, who had the biggest success, was Buerhle, hardly a flamethrower. Haeger has a reasonable chance to have a Wakefield-type career.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) That's why, IMO, whether Danks or Floyd are chosen you have to bring Haeger along in the bullpen. There may be some brutal starts where someone is needed to eat innings. The organization may have already pegged Masset as that person, though. We heard that last year. Haeger had a BAA against him last season in the major leagues of .182. He averaged over a strikeout an inning. He walked a few, but his ERA was 3.44. He didn't allow a homer. His numbers, and obviously its a very small sample size, where much better than Javier Vazquez's and the Sox have him for 4 more years at over $40 million. How come Haeger doesn't get a fair shot?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 05:59 PM) His ERA might not indicate it, but he could probably be just as bad or worse than Floyd or Danks. With Haeger, you can't just look at his ERA because of how many passed balls he has. Then again, I've never been a fan of knuckleball pitchers, so bias is also entering the picture. Its not just his ERA. He's getting wins. He eats innings, and if catchers can't catch it, hitters can't hit it. Its better than watching Danks and Floyd pitch home run derby, which is probably going to happen if either one of them is in the rotation.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 05:50 PM) For the comedy value? Considering he is 28-11 the past 2 seasons in the minors, and was not too bad in the majors after his initial start (I'm sure nobody ever is nervous their first major league game) its unbelievable to me he's not the frontrunner for this job. It really should be his to lose.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 05:31 PM) As long as we are debating the 5th starter, let's throw Charlie Haeger out there again since nobody is running away with the spot. If Charlie had the exact same results last season but he did it with a reportiore (sp) that featured a 92-96 mph fastball, there would even be a competition for this spot.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 18, 2007 -> 05:20 PM) It just boggles my mind how KW put us in a position where we didn't have a sure-fire candidate for the 5th starter spot coming into this season. It's as if he learned nothing at all from the 2004 season. I really hope he wasn't expecting Floyd or Danks to be a bonafide starter in the majors this year. He was boasting a couple weeks ago how everyone would see why he did what he did by March 15th. Well, we're waiting............................... The thing is, the Sox need a guy that can give them at least 5 innings in the 5th slot, or you'll kill your bullpen especially if Buerhle doesn't snap all the way back. You could get away with a little less when Buerhle was a lock to give you at least 6 and usually more. Now, with Contreras the #1, he gets into high pitch counts and doesn't go as long as Buerhle did, and theoretically he should be up next after the #5 guy most of the time. Plus Buerhle may not be the bullpen savior he was before in his slot.

I just went through this gamethread. Its interesting that Wells gets hammered and he sucks and needs to retire, and Danks gets hammered and the wind is blowing out and the umpires have a small strike zone. Danks is young. He's going to struggle if he makes the team. He's struggled initially on just about every level and then became good. That's a good sign, but remember the jump to the major leagues is the biggest leap you can take. If the White Sox are relying on good results from him in the major leagues in 2007, the offense better be the best in team history. I really hope KW is looking for a 5th starter outside the organization. I think Lieber would be perfect. He struggled last year, but he was hurt.

The custom t-shirt shop sounds like it will be big.

For a team that supposedly came into camp "hungry", with Cooper getting pissed and now KW, it seems peculiar. At least none of this counts yet. It appears the poor pitching is starting to grate on the organization though. Hopefully some of KW's acquisitions can help in 2007 or we may see a firesale at the trade deadline.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 05:21 PM) And better defensively (at least according to Tango's 2006 Scouting Report). And younger. If Iguchi's agent asked for three years at $5 million per, I'm fairly certain that David Hahn or Kenny Williams would walk out of the room laughing. 3/$4 seems more reasonable, but even that might be a little high. Its Rick Hahn, and these same guys gave a LF who has no power, doesn't get on base much, gets caught stealing a bunch, and should have his mitt confiscated $3 million this year. If Iguchi has a good solid year, $5 million in not unreasonable.

This has the makings of a 13-9 game.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 01:04 PM) I was projecting my thoughts on the fact that people overreacted to KW being in love with a player, when in fact I think it was Daniels overpaying for a less than spectacular McCarthy. So no, I don't think its a little too early. The White Sox could wind up "winning" the trade, but it still could be bad. If the Sox have trouble with the 5th starter spot and McCarthy pitches well and the Sox narrowly miss the playoffs, even if Danks and or Masset have a better career than McCarthy, depending on how the team does during their time here could make the trade very bad. I noticed the search engine is turned off. I wanted to see if I could look up what people were saying about McCarthy in the spring of 2005. It has to be at least as good as what Danks supposedly is after 3 outings in spring training against minor leaguers. I'm very worried about the fifth starter, not to mention the other four.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) How so? Just because it would be their first full year in the majors doesn't mean automatic-faliure. What if Danks becomes the ROY? It is entirely possible. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them both make it, Danks as the 5th starter and Floyd as a reliever. When is the last time a White Sox rookie starting pitcher made it an entire season on the major league roster? Danks is thought to be a little green by most baseball people. Floyd has just been a disaster.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:05 PM) Many people thought Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton was a stupid trade. COnsidering none of the pitchers involved have thrown a pitch for their new teams, you might be jumping the gun. Who? Joe Borchard was one of the most hated players in Soxtalk history in terms of playing ability. That was a trade of 2 guys with no options who weren't going to make their teams.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) Did you see some of hte 05 numbers that were posted the other day? ST numbers or performance have absolutely ZERO correlation with the regular season. Just ask Boone Logan, Brian Anderson, Tadahito Iguchi, Bobby Jenks, Jermaine Dye, among many many others, whether good or bad. Right. All their ERAs were over 10.00 in 2005? That's like the argument people were having with me last year when Politte was getting lit up in spring training. Oh he was bad in spring training in 2005. So what. There is going to be a time when guys are bad in spring training and then are bad in the regular season. These guys are getting crushed. Its time to pick up the pace. Hopefully they can.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:01 PM) Looks like John Danks has pushed was up to first place in the race. I'd like to see Danks start and go 5 innings, with Floyd getting a different start and going 5 innings. Looks like Danks also picked up the strikeout pace w/ 3 K's today. They both have to face guys that will be on major league rosters, but thats easier said than done. I think they should both be in Charlotte, if either makes it to Chicago on April 2, its almost a lock they will be a Charlotte resident at some point in 2007.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:58 PM) LOL. You are quoting Spring Training numbers. As I said, its time to pick up the pace. With the exception of Contreras the 4 others in the supposed White Sox rotation are getting hammered. If they go through another 2 weeks of this, it should be cause for concern. It certainly has gotten Don Cooper worked up a bit.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) I don't care what he says. How do you know that KW didn't ask for the moon earlier in the offseason, and then came back and got Floyd and Gonzalez, two guys he wanted, for Freddy when he saw that Freddy's value sucked. Rosenthal doesn't know that. You don't know that. I don't know that we received the best package available, I don't have a clue whether KW did or didn't. My point is you dont' have a clue either. Philadelphia seems to admit they would have been willing to give up more for him. I think that's proof enough. . J Contreras CWS 0 2 5.06 3 3 0 0 0 0 10.2 13 6 6 0 1 6 11 2. M Buehrle CWS 0 1 11.00 3 3 0 0 0 0 9.0 15 11 11 3 1 3 7 3. J Garland CWS 1 1 11.25 3 2 0 0 0 0 8.0 18 11 10 3 0 2 4 4. J Vazquez CWS 0 2 15.19 2 2 0 0 0 0 5.1 12 9 9 0 0 2 3 These 4 plus Gavin Floyd makes for a lot of WS DVD viewing in 2007. Its time to pick up the pace.