Dick Allen

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) A drop of 8-10 mph from your fastball and like 4 straight injury-plagued seasons is, to my eyes, slightly more severe than a drop of 1 mph from your fastball and 6 straight 200+ inning seasons. What about the jump in ERA? He was batting practice the second half last season, and its been more of the same this spring, although its been reported on this board he is throwing a little harder. I posted before, that last year when I was in Tucson, Buerhle was topping out at 80 on the gun. He still was pretty decent last season until he entered the Urinal, although I do recall him giving up a lot of unearned runs early on. White Sox pitchers have to do a better job of pitching over defensive mistakes this season. QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) Well, it is worth asking what Ozzie might do if he had a starting pitching staff that was struggling and a bullpen that was dominating. In 05, he had a damn good bullpen and a damn good rotation, to the point that he was usually justified in showing confidence in his starter and leaving him out there for most of the game, no matter how good his bullpen was. In 06, he had struggling starters (the same guys who had succeeded the year before), but he also had guys like Politte, Cotts, Logan, McCarthy, and so on out in the bullpen who had a ton of difficulty keeping teams shut down. If he went to his bullpen in the 6th, that meant Cotts or McCarthy were coming in until late September when callups happened, so that meant he was going to give up at least 1 run, if not more. Ozzie hasn't recently had to deal with struggling starters and a dominating bullpen. Last year, about the only pitcher who wasn't a better option than Cotts was 2nd half Buehrle. The White Sox bullpen was the least used in both 2005 and 2006 I believe. One year it was awesome, and the other, not so good, kind of like the rotation both years.

Its just funny to me that Prior is getting beat around and the board is lit up talking about how he is done. Buerhle gets lit up for a half a season and is getting lit up again this spring and everyone wants to get him signed long-term. KW better wait. There are more than a couple of scouts that think Buerhle is heading south, although unlike Prior at this point, he could get away with throwing 88 if he can get his command back.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 10, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) Prior has given up four runs in two innings of work. No one can spin this. He's starting to look like Buerhle.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 10, 2007 -> 11:02 AM) There just seems to be so many excuses when it comes to why Floyd struggles/struggled in the past. I saw some highlights of his game vs Colorado, and he didn't seem to have much on his pitches. His wind-up is real ugly. Its funny he's using Arizona as an excuse for Floyd but got enamoured with him watching him in the AFL.

QUOTE(G&T @ Mar 10, 2007 -> 10:13 AM) Kenny seems to think Floyd is doing really well. Chisox.com Kenny is starting to sound like he did about Jon Adkins. Adkins came over the same way as Floyd, thought to be pretty much a non-prospect at the point of acquisition amoung most scouts. Kenny didn't agree. The majority of scouts were right. I still like the Garcia trade though even if Floyd is, as I figure, not a very good pitcher.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Mar 10, 2007 -> 06:34 AM) Looks like Philly has heard the sox-rowand rumors as well. Note the end of the peice after the Phills bullpen gave up 11 runs in the last two games, with Manuel saying the Phills still need 2-3 bullpen arms. If the Phills want quantity, a deal involving Logan, and Tracey + makes sense. http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/16874400.htm I read somewhere where the Phillies plan was to trade Rowand and trade for Alex Rios. I'd rather have Rios than Rowand. KW should give Toronto a call if they don't want Anderson on the team.

Danks can't be any more impressive this spring than McCarthy was a couple of springs ago, and now if you read this board, McCarthy is one of the worst pitchers wearing a uniform in Arizona. Danks may be good one day, but when the season starts he should be in Charlotte.

Wouldn't get Rowand back pretty much guarantee another World Series?

QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 8, 2007 -> 08:07 PM) Looking from the box score along, it looks like Floyd pitched pretty well. He did give up 6 runs, but only 2 were earned. It looked he didn't get much support from the defense (2 E's by Crede and 1 by Valido). I didn't see the game and its no indictment of Floyd, I really don't take much out of an outing on March 8th, but one thing the White Sox staff has to do a lot better this year, is pitching over defensive miscues.

The only thing that would put Ozzie on the managerial hotseat is his mouth. So in a way I agree with Phillips, Ozzie is always one outrageous comment from looking for work. It would take just too much baseball-wise to go wrong for him to get canned otherwise. That isn't going to happen.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 8, 2007 -> 05:30 PM) If Joe Crede doesn't hit his...then Pods, Konerko, Blum, and Iguchi might all have never gotten the chance either. That's true, but I'll take the one that drives in four and puts you 2 up instead of 2 down.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Mar 8, 2007 -> 03:56 PM) I know it sounds simple, but it really is that simple. Yeah, Konerko's was probably more dramatic because we were behind. That's fair. But I have a hard time calling any HR that didn't actually win us a game the biggest in team history. Of course, Pods was the one who hit it. I'm sure if Dye or Crede had hit the walk-off no one would debate it was the bigger HR. If Konerko doesn't hit his, depending on how the rest of the game would have played out, Pods may have never had his chance to be a hero.

most improved-Uribe, one year he will be unbelievable, this could be it. most dissappointing-Vazquez-Not really to me, I think he is what he is, but it appears a lot of people are expecting him to blossom. x-factor-Bullpen. I think it will either be great or horrible. Its amazing how good a guy like Aardsma supposedly is when he could even stick with the Cubs for the entire 2006 season. I wonder if Thornton will continue to grow or go back to his struggles, if MacDougal can stay healthy, if Boone Logan can get out major league hitters, if Jenks can stay in decent enough shape and healthy, if the real Sisco is the 2005 or2006 version, and if these guys are capable of throwing enough strikes.

When I was in Tucson last year, I was sitting right behind homeplate and could see the gun they had set up there. I am not kidding when I say Buerhle was topping out at 80, and this was the last week or so of spring training.

Buerhle's agent today on whitesox.com: "In terms of how we value Mark and where the market in general would value Mark ... I mean Gil Meche signed at five years [with Kansas City for $55 million], and Barry Zito signed for seven [with San Francisco for $126 million]. Mark has been one of the most durable pitchers in the last decade and that kind of speaks for itself. " I think a 4 year contract wouldn't even be considered at this point, and if it was, they would have to really jack up the price.

Jerry Owens is supposedly horrific in the outfield, although I did hear KW call him a CF. Sweeney would play CF before Owens. If Anderson fails to hit, I think Sweeney will be in Chicago at least until Pods comes back. Hopefully thats in 2020.

If the reports are accurate, Buerhle basically turned down the same contract extension Vazquez just signed last All Star break, which was right at the beginning of his freefall. IMO either he's starting to question if he can get people out anymore or he's going to be asking for a lot more than Levine thinks.

I'm shocked about the scouting report on his throwing. I saw him last year in spring training and he had by far the strongest arm amoungst the catchers in the drills I saw. Either he was having a real good day, or the other guys are just pathetic.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 7, 2007 -> 07:34 AM) So because Vazquez had a bad half 3 years ago, he is just as much a question as Buerhle? Sorry, I don't buy that. While some try and make it out that Vazquez was the antichrist, as I pointed out, he had a better season than Mark, pretty much across the board. Didn't you just post this? After the 2006 Mark had, most importantly the half to close out the season, why is he any more of a sure bet than Vazquez. After all, how he had done the last 6 seasons should be no concern of yours, right? My point was it was pretty irrelavant what Vazquez did in the late 90's. Buerhle had 1 half of a bad year, and has been the most consistent White Sox starter his entire career except for another real bad stretch in 2003 which he recovered from nicely. Vazquez was on the AL All Star team in 2004 and has been mediocre at best since. That's 2 1/2 seasons. You just said Buerhle was the worst starting pitcher in the league the second half of last season, and I tend to agree with you. Spouting off that Vazquez was a better pitcher in 2006 really isn't saying much. Vazquez was bad the second half of 2004, very mediocre in 2005 and very mediocre in 2006. If that earns you a $34.5 million extension, KW better stop crying about money.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 7, 2007 -> 01:19 AM) Correct. Excpet last year, where in the 2nd half he was the worst starting pitcher in the majors. Not done what? Listen, I am a Sox fan first and foremost. I don't like trying to come up with arguments why one of our players is bad. I just don't enjoy doing it. However, last season Mark let this team down more than anyone last season. After the ASB, he suddenly went from All-Star to AAA pitcher, and never showed flashes of coming out of it. He has done outstanding things for this franchise over his tenure, but going into 2007, I don't see why I should have a ton of faith in Mark. If you use the argument that Buerhle was the worst starting pitcher in the majors the second half, and I do think you may be right, check Vazquez the second half of 2004. He may have been the worst starting pitcher in baseball. It was bad enough the Yankees thought he was hurt and couldn't wait to dump him. I can see where Buerhle in 2007 is a question mark, but it makes absolutely no sense that Vazquez is a sure bet. He's been like he was last year most of his career.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 07:36 PM) the 2002 Expos were 83-79. Vazquez was 10-13 for them. More importantly, the 2006 White Sox were 90-72. Vazquez was 11-12. His ERA has been above league average the majority of his career.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 07:33 PM) Being Pedro Martinez does not significantly impact your winning percentage. Besides, the Expos of Pedro's time were better than Javier's. You may be right, but when Vazquez was 5-15, his ERA was 6.06. Maybe he wasn't getting much help, but he wasn't exactly Cy Young on the mound. One reason a team is bad is because the pitcher was bad. The 1998 Expos were bad but they had an interesting roster. Dustin Hermanson was 14-11 for them. They had Widger and Vlad Guerrero and Orlando Cabrera. Even Carl Pavano, and White Sox killer Mark Grudzdkdfjdjfkd fdslnik

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 07:24 PM) For more money. 2007 was the same. The difference, depending on 2007's performance was 2008. I'd rather pay him a few million more in 2008 if it meant he was lights out in 2007, and not have to commit the other $23 million yet. I could get burned, but history would indicate Vazquez continuing to be about average.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 07:20 PM) his record doesnt mean much pitching for mediocre teams. Not to mention its a worthless stat for most pitchers. And he would also push for him to NOT sign this extension because the next 2 years like you say, he would actually be paid MORE. Yeah, he played for some horrendous teams. His best months after he made adjustments to his motion and stance, he was 2-5 with a 3.61 and 70+ k's. Would you say his record is more important than either of his other stats? He may have been paid more the next 2 seasons, depending on his 2007 results. Another year like the last 2 1/2 and I think the White Sox would have a pretty good case in arbitration offering him $11.5 million, and you don't have the commitment for the following 2 seasons. Wins and losses are not a worthless stat. Sometimes they can be a little misleading, but take last season with Vazquez. He had the lead in every game he pitched except for 2 or 3 and still finished below .500. The White Sox play pretty good defense. Those losses were on him. He coughed them up.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 07:08 PM) How is Ted Lilly and Vazquez even a close comparison? Lilly only 2 times has put up a sub 4 era, and 2 season ago had a 5.6 era higher than any year in Javy's career. Ted Lilly has also never pitched over 200 innings in a season, compared to Javy doing it 6 out of 7 years with the only miss being 198 innings. Javy > Lilly Not even a close comparison Id bet that Javy puts up a better era in the AL than Lilly does in the NL. Lilly did have a lower ERA in the AL than Vazquez did last season and a lower BAA. I think Lilly sucks, and I believe $10 million a year for him is way too much. Vazquez getting even more for the same length is equally ridiculous when you had time on your side with Vazquez. He was under team control for 2 seasons.