Dick Allen

QUOTE(CYGarland @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 07:12 PM) If Garcia hadn't lost 5 mph off his fastball, and Buehrle hadn't imploded these last 2 months, we wouldn't even be that down on Vazquez. He was brought in to be the 5th starter, and has actually performed up to those expectations. Problem is, his high contract, and subpar seasons by Buehrle and Garcia make him the scapegoat. Its unfortunate, but true. Now I'm not making excuses for Vazquez, he's been very frustrating to watch, but Garcia and Buehrle haven't been much better....... That being said, we need at least 1 of those guys to turn it on down the stretch, if were going to make the playoffs. Now I know Burhele has been better of late, but he hasn't been exactly lights out...... He was not brought in to pitch like a typical 5th starter. KW would never have given up Chris Young and committed to pay Vazquez as much as he does for that.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 04:58 PM) There is nothing wrong with expecting greatness. I hope, and imagine, that the players all expect greatness. But just because you don't get there doesn't mean you aren't, or can't be, a good team. And we aren't "bad" in so many aspects this year. We are 6th in starters ERA, 9th in relievers ERA, though we know it is better than that now that a few guys are out of there. 5th in fielding pct. 3 in DER. And 1st in offense. We are an average pitching staff this year, bad by standards last year, but it's not like we are among the worst in the league. The entire AL West is in the top 5 in pitching, because they get to face terrible offenses so much. The White Sox pitching has been brutal the last month or so, definitely one of the worst performances in the league. Average pitching staffs don't win world championships unfortunately. QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 05:02 PM) We didn't hit our stride until the final 5 games of the season last year. Seeing as how we have 39 games left, I am not too worried yet. If we lose 3 of 4 or all 4 in Detroit then I will start to worry. There's still a lot of time left and if the season ended today, we would be in the playoffs. The two teams behind us? One of them lost the best pitcher in the AL for the rest of the season. The other team has been dominated three games in a row at home to the Yankees whom we beat 2 of 3 just over a week ago. Step off the ledge.. The White Sox lost 3 in a row to the Yankees at one point this season as well.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 04:37 PM) Who is that much better than us? The Tigers? We've beaten up on them. The Yanks? We've been alright against them. Fairly even matchup. Would be a tough series either way. We are one of the best teams in the league against teams that are .500 or better. Might even be the best. How couldn't you be optimistic about that. The expectations are just too much out of wack. Because we upgraded on paper, it seems like everybody thought we'd be much better record wise and performance wise. Last year was a special year. This year we haven't been quite as good, but we're only 3 games behind last year's pace. It's difficult to win 100+ games in this league. The problem is the Sox have 5 1/2 games to make up on Detroit, and not a lot of time to do it. They also are only 1 game ahead of Minnesota, and the Twins have been having their way against the Sox as of late. Expectations may be out of whack, but the White Sox are very close to being in 3rd place in their own divison, something not even the most pessimistic would have predicted.

Nobody could have expected the Sox starting rotation's performance to drop off as much as it has the last year, and nobody could have expected the offense to be as dynamic as it has been. The Sox have a good record, and have a good chance at the playoffs. The problem is pitching wins, and the Sox pitching has been brutal. The team ERA was the same as Cleveland's in today's paper. Runs are a little more difficult to come by in the playoffs mainly because you're playing good teams and facing their best pitchers. If Buerhle can't become the Mark Buerhle of old and Garcia countinues with the blame game instead of looks in the mirror, the Sox may make the playoffs, but won't be around long.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:54 PM) I have a feeling that Vazquez would suddenly show more testicular fortitude if he ever pitched in the posteason. His 9.53 ERA in 2004 would indicate to me Steinbrenner would disagree.

I would love to see the thread about the Vazquez trade.

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:46 PM) I think he's hurt more than they're letting on. I think you're right. A cortisone shot and he's still hurting. The ball isn't jumping off his bat like it was earlier.

I think the pitching staff as a whole throws way too many pitches. An emphasis should be put on minimalizing pitch counts. Its not like the Sox rotation has a lot of strikeout guys.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:35 PM) I disagree that he'd have a losing record. If he was in Vazquez's spot, he'd easily have a winning record. We've given Vaz the lead in almost every start, and his blow-ups have taken us from a comfortable lead to trailing very fast. If we really think McCarthy would have an ERA over 5, then KW should be fired for not trading him when his value is sky high. Vazquez has had the lead in all but 2 of his starts. Sometimes he had the lead 2 or 3 times in the same game.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:33 PM) GMAB. I'm far from a McCarthy hater. In fact, I'm probably more supportive of him then even a lot of you. He's been mismanaged this year, but he certainly wasn't going to be the 20-3 pitcher many make him here to be. Personally, as somone just mentioned, I would rather have him go through this season like this then see him go the route of Verlander, Liriano, et. al. The kid's going to be awesome, but not this year. As a starter this year, he'd 100% have a losing record. No doubt in my mind. Then what would everyone b**** about? If he was in Vazquez's spot in the rotation and the team scored as many runs as they have for Javy, McCarthy would have to be really awful to be under .500. I think in 10 of Vazquez's 11 victories the Sox have scored 8 or more runs, and they have scored a lot of runs in 3 or 4 of his other starts. The problem I see is with how Ozzie uses him, this really is a lost season for him. He's not learning anything. Next season he will be just as green as he was this season.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:29 PM) Not sure. IMO, KW didnt want to risk Mac in the rotation. Look at Liriano. Look at Verlander. Both have had to deal with arm and shoulder problems because of +Innings. I think Williams wanted to ease Mac into role. Now, how good of a job they have done with that this season is another story.... This might be true, but you are going to have the same problem with his innings next year.

QUOTE(soxyess @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:28 PM) Why the f**k is Alomar on this team. This guy is an automatic out. He cant throw anybody out. We couldnt have found another catcher? Evidently if you may want a guy to join your coaching staff next season, its a requirement to have him on the roster this season.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:26 PM) I didn't say he isn't any good. But, it's not his role right now. I really don't think Ozzie has a role for him. I think he'd be far more effective if he knew exactly what his role was.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:21 PM) He got absolutely torched his first stint up. When he came back in September, he was decent, but he won't do it again this season for two reasons - 1 - he isn't stretched out, and 2 - he's been scouted now and he will be eaten alive in a starter's role if he's put there this season. If he isn't any good, then why the hell does everybody want him, and why the hell won't KW upgrade his roster by dealing him? IMO McCarthy is at worst the 4th best starter on the roster.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:21 PM) Texas has just jumped into the lead on Detroit...down 6-0, now up 7-6....we had a golden chance today, but Javy is not capable of pitching around errors, not capable of not throwing meatballs, not capable of getting thru more than the lineup 3 times, not capable of helping this team win a title... He needs to be dealt...for anything we can get. Expecting anyone to pitch a shutout, let alone Javy Vazquez is asking for a lot. The guy is an average pitcher, his stats don't lie.

QUOTE(CYGarland @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:18 PM) Cant totally blame Javy for this one, PK has had a rough game, and Pablo's D in LF has been far from impressive. He's being paid $12 million a year, he should be able to minimize damage. 4 runs is too much, but like I said earlier, there was little chance the Sox were going to win today anyway, and even though the had the lead and Santana hasn't been too overpowering, they only have scored 1 run.

It is really difficult as a lifelong Sox fan to watch games Vazquez is pitching. You know its just a matter of time. There was little chance of winning this game anyway unless Santana's blister got real bad, but Vazquez took any drama out of it pretty early today. I think Vazquez has had the lead in all but 2 of his starts this season. A good pitcher would be contending for the Cy Young with the support he's gotten.

We know one thing that is automatic. If Vazquez or Garcia or even Buerhle most of the time now are pitching, and the Sox score in an inning, the opposition will surely score their next AB.

QUOTE(CYGarland @ Aug 20, 2006 -> 02:07 PM) I'd be careful with Punto here, with Redmond on deck, and the DP in order I agree. Put him on.

Hopefully Santana's blister will prevent him from being anywhere near 100%. This could be a big boost to the Sox if they beat him. Chances are they won't, but I'll watch it anyway.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Aug 19, 2006 -> 06:51 PM) not that im aware of I like your Piniella quote about Pods. Wasn't Piniella the manager of the Mariners when they waived Pods?

At least Pods made the Twins pay for another miscue. Who was jphat referring to last night when he said good posters are scared off of the gamethreads?

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Aug 19, 2006 -> 10:13 AM) So how does a guy who's on the short list for the worst in - game manager in the majors win a World Series 1 year, and then has his team on top in the Wild Card standings with a good record the next season? If Ozzie is going to get all the credit when the team wins a WS, he should get all the blame when they fail to play up to expectations. Hawk calling out the lack of intensity in a game in August against the Twins, a team the Sox are neck and neck with in a WC race indicates to me Ozzie isn't all he was cracked up to be last season. A lot of his moves have not worked out this year.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 18, 2006 -> 10:03 PM) Personally, this has nothing to do with the fact Cotts was in. It could have been Thornton, and I still would have not wanted us to walk a guy to face Morneau. Morneau is swinging the bat with some enormous confidence right now. If anything, Ozzie should have had a RHP ready for Cuddyer if he didn't want Cotts to pitch to him.

The fact on the matter is Morneau is more apt to get a dink hit on a good pitch than perhaps anyone on Minnesota's roster except for maybe Mauer. It was a dumb move. I am more surprised and I think the bigger story is Hawk's assertion that the White Sox lack intensity. That is inexcusable, and something Hawk has often said Ozzie would never allow happen. I think it deserves its own thread.