Dick Allen

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) And barely anything is known about Anderson Gomes so how can anyone say that he's a good prospect yet? Right now, he's just a prospect. As is Milledge.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:36 PM) There's probably a bigger gulf between being drafted highly and performing in the minor leagues than there is between performing in the minor leagues and performing in the Majors. You are right, but a guy like Patterson was taken 3rd overall. If you look at the first round of the 2000 draft, it may be one of the worst first rounds in any sport ever. The point being there was something someone saw that made these guys so desirable. High draft picks make a lot of money these days. There are a lot of guys that tear it up in the minors and are busts in the majors. I've never seen Milledge play, so I couldn't comment on him. But no matter what, I wouldn't trade a #1 like pitcher for him when I'm trying to win a championship, and it doesn't matter where this thread goes, KW wouldn't make that trade either, unless maybe in July if the Sox were out of it.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:27 PM) Felix Hernandez was a top prospect. Albert Pujols was a top prospect. Frank Thomas was a top prospect. Whats your point about Corey Patterson? My point is many top prospects don't pan out. Pitching wins championships. There is a far better chance Jose Contreras will outperform Milledge in the major leagues in 2006. BTW, Pujols was a 13th round pick. The White Sox wanted to draft Simeon High School star Jeff Jackson in 1989. The Phillies drafted him before the Sox had a chance to. He turned into a bust. The White Sox took their second choice, Frank Thomas.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:26 PM) Again, I thought to be great you would have to prove to be sucessful year after year. I guess I'm wrong though.. whoopsie. And this debate is getting pretty pointless. The same thing is being said over and over again, and it all started because the original article said the Mets would probably have to part with Milledge. It didn't even say that Milledge was involved in any potential deal, it just said that he would likely have to be. You're being hypocritical. You want Milledge because you can have him for 6 years and he is predicted to be good. Makes you wonder what the Mets are thinking if they have a superstar in the minors but keep looking for corner outfielders, even considering Sammy Sosa.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:21 PM) Yes, because I, unlike most Sox fans on this board, don't hate prospects, and in fact like them, especially ones that are top 10 in the league. The way I see it is we can get 1 year of Contreras or 6+ years of Milledge. Take your pick, I'd take Milledge anyday of the week. Corey Patterson was a top prospect, a can't miss guy. He turned into a guy who usually missed. I like the horse that led the White Sox to the world title.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:19 PM) I'm assuming you are talking about the WS, if not, sorry in advance. He had a 3.86 ERA in his only 2005 WS start. Now, thats a small sample size, yes, but that doesn't look too ace-like. (not to mention his 5.68 ERA in the 2003 WS) Well then, is Buerhle's 4.91 ERA in the World Series "ace-like"? Maybe the Sox should trade him. Using postseason stats is way too small of a sample size. Barry Bonds would have been run out of baseball before he discovered his mystery cream if postseason stats were the end all. Also, going by what you 2 guys have been saying, shouldn't Jermaine Dye be dealt soon as well? He may have an option for 2007, I'm not sure, but he has had some lean years, and if he has another one, the option won't be picked up and they will lose him for nothing.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:07 PM) Hey, believe what you want about prospects. Joe Borchard has the majority of the people here paranoid about prospects, and you need to get over it. And no, this trade doesn't help the White Sox at the major league level, unless you believe McCarthy will do better starting than Contreras will, which is what I do believe. In 2004, Contreras sucked in New York and Chicago. In the start of 2005, Contreras was average. In the second half of 2005, he was superb. That makes one of the best pitchers in the league? I thought pitchers had to be consistantly good to be one of the best, silly me. He sucked in Chicago too, or did you forget about that? How does it appear KW agrees with you? This is the offseason, there is no limit on when the deals can be made. Hell, spring training hasn't even started yet. If a deal with Contreras is being worked on, its going to be worked on for awhile, mainly because it will be a rather big deal for our team. But you are advocating trading him for a guy who hasn't batted once in the major leagues. At least Contreras, who was one of the 2 or 3 best pitchers in MLB from July 1st on, and started the first game in all 3 postseason series which netted the White Sox its first World Championship in 88 years has shown he can pitch well in MLB. The guy was pretty good in 2003 with the Yankees. I saw him shut down a pretty good White Sox offense late that year. Even in 2004 when his overall performance wasn't very good, he had some dominating games. It looks like he's got it together now, and should be a dominating pitcher. What happened to all the Don Cooper cures all pitchers anyway? He'll still be here. I am a little worried about the effect of no Duque, but Contreras has had a spotlight on him for a long while before he came to the US, so he should be fine.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 06:27 PM) So you won't feel bad if we keep Contreras, fail to win another World Series or even make the playoffs, and Contreras goes on to sign elsewhere once the season is over? I know it's a risk to trade Contreras but come on... No I wouldn't feel bad. That is how organizations that are going for it operate.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 06:25 PM) That's not my argument. I think Contreras can be a stud next season but I also think it's possible that he isn't very good. My argument is that I don't won't to lose him after 2006 and get nothing in return. If we actually received draft picks for losing him to free agency, I wouldn't mind as much. But Contreras has the same contract as Hideki Matsui did. There's no compensation if we lose him to free agency. And if he goes somewhere else, the money the organization has put aside to sign him will be available for other players, whether in trade or free agents, and there are some pretty good looking free agents next season.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 06:21 PM) Frank Thomas has been injury-plagued and has only played in 108 games (345 AB's) over the past 2 seasons. Losing him isn't a big blow because he hasn't contributed much due to injuries. Letting a quality starter go after one season and getting nothing in return would hurt much more. You are not getting nothing in return. You get his 2006 season. If it leads you to the world championship, it is better than getting any organizations top 5 prospects. What if Konerko would have signed with the Angels? Would that have meant the Sox should have traded him last winter? Give me a break.

So basically the argument is that Contreras won't be any good in 2006. I disagree, and will remind people that pitching wins. The gamble would be trading a guy who was your best pitcher the second half of a season you won the WS and was the starting pitcher for the first game in each postseason series for a prospect who probably wouldn't even be on your major league team in 2006. From July on he was better than Buerhle, better than Garland, better than Garcia and better than Vazquez. Considering the $95 million investment JR has in this year's team, trading Contreras for a prospect is insane.

Why is it that a lot of people on this board say the White Sox can't afford to let Contreras go for nothing? You get his services in 2006. The other thread had post after post calling Frank Thomas the greatest player in team history. He was let go for nothing, how come it wasn't necessary to trade him last offseason?

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 05:16 PM) No way will I miss that game. There's a pretty good chance Frank will.

If the White Sox truly believed Frank Thomas could be counted on make it through an entire season healthy, he still would be here. They gave up a popular player and some decent prospects for a guy who is also a health risk for his replacement. Considering his new contract, which has incentives on plate appearances and not being on the DL, and no incentives on performance, the A's, while being probably a little more optimistic about Frank's health than the White Sox, still have a great concern about it.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 07:06 AM) That's unfortunately probably the sad reality. Which personally I don't think is the right strategy. We could only have JC for 1 more season. Milledge could be a superstar on this team for 10+. Sometimes you have to look at more then just the present season. EDIT: It's kind of like the Coco Crisp for Andy Marte trade. A little short - term pain, for a gain in the long - term that should outweigh it. Milledge may or may not be a star. His numbers thus far are no better than Jeremy Reed's before he was dealt to Seattle with a couple of others for what could have been 3 months of Freddie Garcia. It appears a lot of people have already written off Reed as a potential star. I still think he's going to be a very good hitter, and he plays surprisingly exceptional defense. Contreras showed last season that he's a #1 pitcher. You don't give those guys up for prospects when you are in position to win the WS. The White Sox are in a different position than they have been in the past. The have a legitimate shot of winning it all again, and there is no guarantee Contreras is gone after this season anyway.

Milledge for Contreras doesn't help the White Sox in 2006, plus remember KW saying he wants pitching back if he deals Contreras.

QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 04:21 PM) This is why people go bankrupt. Woods seems like a smart guy but it is still ridiculous. Tiger makes over $70 million a year in endorsements. Supposedly his retirement account with the PGA will be worth over $300 million when he turns 60. They are estimating his net worth will eventually top $5 billion. Spending $38 million on a home is nothing to him.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 04:19 PM) Look at the size of his damn guest house. Jesus. I saw pics of his other house in FLA and his views were amazing, I can only imagine this one. As long as he's hanging out with his wife, he has an unbelievable view wherever he is at.

Frank is basically homerun or bust right now. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think he can last a whole season. The White Sox did what they had to do, and obviously Frank doesn't think he's done. It would be a shame if he injured his ankle/foot again and it caused him problems the rest of his life. Its good for him that he goes to a solid team, the real shame would have been if he tried to hang on with a team like TB.

I was reading the Artest timeline on espn.com. The funniest one was that he applied for a part-time job at a Circuit City before his rookie year with the Bulls. The Bulls put a stop to it before he was to start. Maybe he should make Circuit City a career now.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 06:42 PM) Tim Thomas b****ed and he hasn't seen a minute of playing time since. It's no surprise to me that the Kings backed out of this trade after Artest opened his stupid mouth. They would have been crazy to complete the trade. It could have ruined their franchise.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 06:37 PM) What team is going to trade for a player that says he doesn't want to play for them? He stopped the trade from happening with his comments. If he said nothing, he would be with the Kings right? Teams will trade for someone who says he doesn't want to be there. But there is no way in hell a team should take a chance with Artest if he says he doesn't want to be there.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 06:32 PM) Apparently, this is what happened. "The dj asked who he would play for, Ron said "he would play for the raptors or any team in the hood." That's pretty stupid because it would go against him not wanting to go to Sac if you read it one way, but knowing Ron's history, I look at it again and it reads, "I want to go to a big city or a city with nothing but ghetto's because I want to get myself in trouble again." I know Phil Jackson wants Artest, and Kobe and Odom have been not getting along very well lately supposedly. I still don't like the idea of this guy being able to dictate where he's going to play. The organization that is paying him has to do whats best for it and its fans. If and when he plays again, its only a matter of time before Artest embarrasses himself, his team and his sport again. They should tell him to go home, and never come back.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 06:21 PM) And Jim Gray also said that Artest doesn't have that much power and he would have to go whereever he was traded to. It was the Kings not liking the fact that Artest told people he wasn't interested in the Kings. It wasn't a matter of Artest turning it down, it was a case of the Kings turning it down after they heard that Artest would probably be disgruntled there. Artest has a lot of power. His f***ed up head will keep him out of any city he really doesn't want to be in. You almost have to be as crazy as him to trade for him to begin with, but if he doesn't want to be there it will be an embarrassment to the NBA. Right now, I think Stern has to step in for the sake of the league and tell Artest to go wash cars for a living. If he is allowed to pick where he wants to play, the NBA will be nothing but a joke.

The Kings would be gambling enough just to pick Artest up, but could you imagine the headache he would be if he didn't want to be there in the first place? Personally, I think Artest should be banned from the NBA until he gets help and a professional will say he can handle everything that goes with being an NBA player. Maybe this will increase the chances of Peja winding up on the Bulls in a couple of years. Hasn't that been the rumor for a while now?