Dick Allen

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) So, sure. Avi Garcia is bad, but he's not 100% the reason that the sox have had a losing season. We should make sure he's still part of the team next year. Matt Albers was bad, but he wasn't 100% the reason the team was bad this year, he should be in the bullpen forever. James Shields is bad, but, so was everyone, it's ridiculous to think removing him will help. It doesn't matter how you perform, so long as everyone around you is bad too. Then you can't complain! Players you change. That is far more effective than swapping out a manager. Again, Joe Maddon, Mike Scoscia, whatever, with this roster, and how the injuries shook out, they all would be fools. Again, if the Sox were ever going to make a change, this seems like the time to do it. It just doesn't upset me that it appears they won't do it like it does most others. I'd rather have them blame players and change them.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) If this is false, I feel like this is the 3-4 time this season Nightengale has been fed contradictory info. I wonder if he stops using his source. He said in his story contract negotiations had yet to commence. So there is nothing contradictory about Hayes' tweet.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) So, Dick, just to be clear, your main thrust is that there is no way to ever judge whether a manager is good, either by record or by his choices on the field, so we should never fire a manager, correct? No, but the outrage is laughable. If you think the Sox don't have the talent to compete, how do you blame the record on the manager? If you think the Sox should be in the playoffs with what they have, then yes, the manager should be fired. I just don't think Shields and Ranaudo and Danks and Albers, and Shuck and Avi not to mention other below average guys, are Robin Ventura's fault. When people are excited about Tyler Saladino, and want him as a regular, it is an indication the talent level is short. I don't think there is a manager managing or a manager in waiting coaching right now that would have had the 2016 White Sox in the playoffs.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) Ugh, no one is arguing that managers have more of an impact than players. People are just stating that managers have some impact and that the team could improve some with a better manager. There's no doubt in my mind this team is better with Maddon, whether that's one game or four. And if it's one game or four, guess what, if he took the job in 2012 like Robin, he would be on his 4th consecutive below .500 season. He would be deemed an idiot who has to go. I was around when Tony LaRussa was around. Hawk was not an idiot in 1986 for canning him. Then his firing was one of the biggest blunders ever when LaRussa won with a roster just about anyone could win with. If Maddon had zoo animals and karaoke at Sox spring training with 3 consecutive losing seasons, his act wouldn't be genius, it would be a clown show. Ozzie's first game I think Koch blew a save. He said he told the team to go out and get drunk. People laughed. He says that in 2011, there would have been outrage. When you win, everything you do is looked at positively. When you lose, those same moves are idiotic.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) Does the Sox brass live in a different reality than we do because I've seen 4 years of bad baseball and nothing has really improved one season to the next. The Sox are just as bad as they were in 2011. What is the reality? Is this a playoff team with the right manager? I know you can answer both, but if you could only choose one, would you rather the Sox blame the manager or players and make changes to only one? Believe me, I get people want him out. But the calls of ticket sale drops seems laughable. The team has actually played pretty well at home this year. The ticket base has witnessed more victories. I doubt there will be a meaningful drop no matter who manages. If they trade their better players away, that will have a much larger effect than the manager IMO. Robin said he wanted to come back a few weeks ago. I don't see how that changes, but some people who probably should know more than me think it's a possibility if not a probability.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) On the field, I have read that even the best managers equate to 2-3 more wins. I think off the field is where Maddon is a genius, as he completely turned the culture of that team around. Switch rosters and let's see who the idiot is.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) I don't think Maddon would have allowed for the s*** show with Sale, Eaton, LaRoche to occur Didn't he get into it with one of his starters? Sale cutting jerseys is on him, not anyone else. And according to RH at the season ticketholder event I was at, RV went ballistic on him, and RH said Sale will never do anything like that again. He said Robin's strength is also considered his weakness. He keeps the stuff in house. There can be a case for replacing him, but putting any blame on him for that incident is ridiculous. And the other s*** show as you call it? Didn't they start out 23-10?

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 02:02 PM) The Sox certainly wouldn't be nearly as good as the Cubs, but I think the team would have a direction. A manager that isn't afraid to fail. Can manage outside of the box. Can show the strengths and deficiencies of the players and use or avoid them as such. Joe Maddon hasn't won a damn thing yet, so I'm not ready to anoint him as the end-all, be-all, but either he or Bochy and maybe a couple of others could have a +4 WAR with this team. But who knows. Maybe they DID have the horses to win? If Maddon can mean that many wins, I wonder how the 2014 Rays lost 85 games, and his first 2 seasons they lost 198. Players win games. The team was short. Robin has been around, his contract is up, they haven't won, it does seem like a time to move on, but, at least they aren't blaming the manager for not winning. There are going to be some drastic changes to the roster.

Joe Maddon could be managing this squad and they would have finished in 4th place. Some people want the Sox to hire Dave Martinez. If Dave Martinez was managing the 2016 White Sox and Robin Ventura was sitting next to Joe Maddon, how different would their records be than they are now? I just think since his contract is up it would be a time to try something new. I do like the fact they aren't pinning the losing on him. That should be refreshing. The fact is, if the players don't change, whoever manages this team will eventually be an idiot.

I like Robin, but I'm a bit surprised.

A bag of signed Jose Fernandez baseballs, also containing his checkbook, washed up on the shore yesterday about a mile from the accident.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 26, 2016 -> 11:21 PM) My god was that place empty. 13k attendance. Upper deck and outfield were essentially bare. Was very weird to see/hear, as it was also very quiet (understandably) The upper deck was closed.

When they aren't going anywhere, I hit the doldrums in August, but once September hits, I get a second wind. No baseball for 6 months gets me excited to watch meaningless for the White Sox games.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 25, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) Amazing what happens when he throws his curve It is all about command with him. When he has it, he is pretty much unhittable.

Robby with 6 k's in 2 innings this series. The stuff is still there.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 25, 2016 -> 01:23 PM) I know I keep asking the same question, but why isn't Coats getting Sept at bats so the Sox can at least get some feeling about what he has? I would think Rick Hahn has a pretty good read on Avi at this point. You are going to base what Jason Coats can do based on September ABs?

Very sad. If he hadn't have been pushed back a day, he probably wouldn't have been on that boat. The cruel hands of fate. RIP.

First time the Yankees have been shut out 3 consecutive games since 1975.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Sep 23, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) I would like to have Ozzie back. If that doesn't happen, my next choice would be Wally Backman. He had a nice run in the Mets organization, but just left at the end of the season as he was tired of being overlooked for big league jobs. He would create a complete 180 change in this clubhouse though and get the most out of the roster. Hahn said Ozzie won't manage the Whie Sox again even though he is a fan. Specially mentioned all the distractions that go with it, and stepping back is not stepping forward.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 23, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) I made it pretty clear that I'd be fine if they went outside of the organization. If they do, I just prefer it to be a younger guy. Kepler would be great. Even though they aren't necessarily fully out of the organization, Dave Martinez or Sandy Alomar would be cool with me. I'd also like to see someone with some fire. The Sox have been some damn boring the last few years. RH addressed this at the season ticketholder event I attended. He acknowledged teams usually go from a hyper guy to a laid back and back to hyper, but he did say that wouldn't be a thing with the White Sox should Robin be replaced. They just want to find the right guy. Players change anyways.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 23, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) The White Sox the last 10 years or so do seem to win only on the occasions we blast 3 or more homers and get the requisite strong pitching. You are right in that we need home run hitters. HOWEVER ... there is no power in baseball anymore, so we're gonna have to get used to this. We still have one guy and one only who can hit A LOT of home runs. That's Frazier. Power came back in a pretty big way this season.

I do think the Sox showed their hand a little when they went after Sandy Alomar Jr. last year. The only thing was Renteria wasn't really in play because he was going with Bud Black in DC but that fell through. So maybe Renteria was more highly thought of. If you are going to change managers though, why promote a coach on this failed team? Replace the entire staff. Clearly, if the Sox brass thought McEwing would win more games than Robin, he would be managing right now. Renteria supposedly said he wouldn't take over during the season, so maybe not him, but what exactly did he add to the 2016 team? Robin is going to go. I think he was put in a spot where failure was just about the only outcome, but bring in Sandy and some new blood to sit on the bench with him.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 23, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) I'm actually surprised Joe McEwings name isn't in the mix somewhere in this discussion. He's coached under LaRussa and Bobby Valentine, and actually managed in the Sox system at one point, earning a couple of Manager of the Year awards down there. He has the requisite spark that some find attractive in a baseball manager (I am in that camp myself), so he certainly seems to have the credentials to at least be considered for the job. I don't think he ever coached under LaRussa or Valentine, not that it would be a deal breaker for me.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 23, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) Ok, I'm looking. Um. The regular lineup for 1997 season featured Ray Durham with one of the worst OPS's of his career, Chris ".582 OPS" Snopek at 3B for most of the games, Ozzie Guillen sporting a .612 OPS for 140+ games at the ass end of his career, Jorge Fabregas at C with about a .680 OPS, Al Belle in the worst season he had in the late 90s. Frank Thomas had a great year and Ventura played part time. The pitching... Jamie Navarro at 9-14, Danny Darwin, James Baldwin, Wilson Alvarez only startign 22 games....need I go on? Only two starters had above .500 records and they were ONE GAME above .500. Bevington still managed them to 80 wins. How? I don't honestly know. Maybe Frank's WAR was 80 that year. Well they had Robin for about half the year. Belle, Frank, Baines, Cameron was putting up numbers similar to Melky. Dave Martinez had a pretty good year. This year Rollins started a lot. JB Shuck started a lot. Avi Garcia started a lot. Durham's OPS is pretty similar to Lawries and Saladinos.

The average amount of HR for an AL team this year is 188. There is one team that has hit more than the average amount of HRs and scored fewer than the runs scored average. Tampa Bay. The only team who has hit less than 188 HRs and scored more than the AL average is Cleveland and they have hit 180 HR. More HR=more runs. Especially where the Sox play half their games. Except for HR rates, it's actually been pitcher friendly the last several seasons. The White Sox are in the process of developing higher OBP guys. Right now, those types aren't easy to acquire. You can make up for an OBP challenged offense by hitting balls over the wall.