Dick Allen

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 04:18 PM) But the Sox got nothing. That's the big problem. Whoever scouted Frazier and Samardzija as elite talents, and Shields as a capable mid rotation guy simply cannot evaluate talent and do not belong anywhere near a professional baseball team. It's one thing to say prospects didn't work out - most don't - but when the "proven veterans" especially the ones that are worshiped as elite, are consistently average or below, there is a major problem. Were these veterans even seriously scouted? Did anyone actually look at their stats? And secondarily, indeed, I don't believe that the Sox FO is particularly capable in negotiating trades. On paper, they usually overpay. When the Dodgers preferred the 3 Sox prospects to Frazier, that should have sent a clear signal to the Sox* (if they had any self-awareness) that he was on the wrong side of this transaction. *Rabbitt is probably right Williams is making all of these inane moves, but, whoever is doing it, is just inept. No. The have Frazier, Ynoa, and Burdi. And while Shields has been awful, he did have 6 good starts and another decent one. Erik Johnson has an ERA over 9.00 with SD and is done for the year. It just cost the Sox money really. Tatis if he makes it, is a long ways off. If these are the worst trades the team ever makes, that is pretty good.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 05:37 PM) Even Matt Kemp with money coming back the other way would have been a much better move for that theoretical offense than James Shields, as/when Danks and Latos were both putting up much better numbers in the rotation. No. You would be calling for Hahn's law degree. But kings of Chicago. Hindsight is great. With a few hiccups like not understanding guys with stress fractures of their ribs can't help your bullpen, even you can figure out "what should have been done." Without it, you make these guys look like geniuses. If you use WAR to determine a players worth, your idea of Gerrardo Parra for $8 million wouldn't work out. WAR wise he would be the worst player on the White Sox. He would blow Avi away.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) Who are they going to replace him with? Its not like hes holding some prospect back. Might as well keep sending him out there and helping your draft position. They are about 7 games ahead of a top 3 pick, Shields is just the kind of guy to get you into contention for that. Assuming Gonzalez is back soon, Ranaudo, although he is pretty bad himself.

Semien has done pretty well. Bassitt hurt Phegley hurt Ravelo minor league fodder Trayce hurt Montas hurt Micah minor league fodder Of the 2 KW-esque trades, its not like they destroyed the White Sox. You do have to give up something to get something, but Semien is really the only one who would help right now and moving forward, would you rather have him at SS or Anderson? I'm pretty sure the Sox saw Semien as a 3B. Maybe if the trades weren't made, that is where he is right now. Any way, the team wouldn't really be any better now or really in future if they had passed on making these deals.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) Kaplan never said the Sox would be for sale. Bernstein did. Kaplan just said there was a rift between Hahn/KW. And the Sox responded immediately. Which they never do about anything. And from JR's talk with Kaplan, it appears the team is not going to be sold any time soon, and if there is a rift between KW/RH, it isn't big enough that they won't be together this next offseason.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 12:42 PM) IMO, or my guess is that Ventura will not return as Manager. Meanwhile, Hahn and Williams will continue to revamp the Scouting and player evaluation personnel they have after acknowledging how ineffective they have been. They will also seek to reqork the roster by adding hitters if they can fond them and trying to bolster the terrible bullpen. No matter who is in charge, that is going to be a tall order. Too many players have under-performed (Frazier, Robertson, Avila, Shields, Fulmer) , diminished their trade value, and hampered management's ability to trade them. As far as the Sox being for sale, everything is for sale at the right price. Kaplan created a rumor out of idle conversation that he instigated or perhaps out of whole cloth. I doubt the Reinsdorf family would sell their interest in the White Sox for several reasons. One of them is the interconnection with their ownership interest in the Chicago Bulls and their various media Contracts and promotional ties that they share or allow them to maintain greater leverage. Reinsdorf has a couple of sons who might step in if he retires, like old man Joe Ricketts children did or like the continuity in the Yankees/Steinbrenner organization. Here's something I read the other day. For as disappointing Frazier has been, and the supposed future star Trayce Thompson is, Trayce has a 0.4 WAR in 80 games this year. Apparently, his stellar defense has not been so stellar. I was reading where he routes are awful. Frazier has a 1.1 War in about 35 more games.

At some point it does no one any good to have him go out and get pounded. If he can't straighten out, Sit him down and hope some time off does the trick. I still think his head basically facing the first base dugout on release may be something that is pretty correctable and might make a difference. If he has some command, he still has enough to be a back of the rotation guy IMO. But if he continues to throw meatball after meatball, he has no chance.

KW did mention minor league staffs, which is exactly the same thing Stone mentioned on the Score a few weeks ago. I would imagine some minor league staff members get replaced. How high up the chain is anyone's guess. One thing we did find out this year, the 2015 team struggles don't appear to be Mark Parent's fault.

So Billy Butler missed the weekend series after Danny Valencia punched him right on the temple. Apparently some shoe guy was in the clubhouse and Valencia had some shoes he wasn't supposed to wear in games, only BP and warming up. He was wearing them in games, Butler thought it would be good to tell the rep Valencia was lying to him, and the fight started.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:55 AM) I disagree with part of this. raBBit has stated that Melky was a Kenny Williams decision. That offseason is the one that looks really bad in hindsight. They weren't ready to give up 2 draft picks that offseason and pay a premium for a closer. Rick Hahn was very popular here when all those moves were made. When they failed, they became KW moves. In fact, the one poster who rips all these moves the most, and tells you what should have happened, went one farther. He loved all these moves so much, he said Hahn and KW would be kings of Chicago if they could then complete their offseason and land Matt Kemp. Hahn does still enjoy back up QB status with many. But he does hold some responsibility for all these moves. If he has nothing to do with it but go to the media and explain the reasoning for making them, he should have done the honorable thing and quit his job.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:46 AM) I would think one the worst organizations in baseball would be ecstatic to make it to the World Series. Not if they lost. Regardless of what you want to say about the White Sox FO personnel acumen, they really don't like to lose, even if it swells the bank account.

QUOTE (coco1997 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:41 AM) One thing I noticed about the bobbleheads this year is that, unlike in previous seasons, most of them were not announced prior to the start of the season, which is frustrating because I usually plan my schedule around the bobblehead giveaway games. With the exception of the Sale K Counter bobblehead, I'm pretty sure the superhero Lawrie, Jedi Southpaw and Scottie Pippen bobbleheads were only recently announced. The promo schedule on the Sox website hasn't even been updated to show the Pippen bobblehead which is a giveaway on 9/14. But I agree, the giveaways have been pretty great. I have a friend whose brother interned with the Sox this season and as a perk received two of every giveaway, so he hooked me up with the pullover BP jersey and the '76 replica jersey. A little annoying that the '76 jersey came in just M and XL, though. I'm an awkward size between a medium and a large so the medium is a little snug. I gave the 76 jersey to my 14 year old nephew who is 6'4" and built like Chris Sale if Sale didn't eat in a week. Really skinny. The XL barely fit him.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) so if they would be less than ecstatic to lose the WS, what would they be to have the fourth-worst record in baseball from 2013-2016? You really think the White Sox are happy with where they are at? And could you imagine if they were jumping up and down with joy if the made the WS and lost, how that would go over? Would you be happy if they made the WS and lost?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) So now you're assuming his season would have unfolded exactly the same way under Herm Schneider? How can you know that? Why didn't the Dodgers when they did his physical? At any rate, you're much more entertaining when you point out how terrible Danny Duffy is or how Brandon Finnegan should be banished to the bullpen (with a similar stat line to Carlos Rodon), so of course he gives up zero runs in his last start and Duffy's another month away from pushing into the Cy Young Top 5. Greg-like. http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb...cided/88642126/ The Reds are the ones thinking Finnegan to the bullpen. He had a nice game against the tough SD line up, buthis numbers are still garbage. Duffy is doing well, but advanced stats would indicate he's been pretty lucky. BAA not very impressive. High strand rate. It's amazing you would bash Greg, one of the very few who buy anything you post. But while you are bashing others , just remember what you wrote, Frankie Montas would have been very helpful this season had the White Sox not traded him. That's one of the more ridiculous things you have written. And there have been more than 100 real doozies. The Finnegan/Rodon comparison is gold just don't look at their WARs.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) the owners of the team would be ecstatic to lose the world series: they'd be making a ton of dough. I don't think anyone is ecstatic to lose the WS.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) The way I see it is that the front office is always highly collaborative. There is usually a single person—typically, but not always, the GM—who leads the front office and makes the final call and when quick decisions are necessary, the leader makes them perhaps without consultation of others. But there are many people who have a lot of input. Your GM will not make many good draft picks or international signings without good scouting advice. Once the advice is there, the GM has to sift through it, make risk calculations, etc. But even then, there are other members of the front office like the assistant GM who will play a role in the weighing of risks and benefits. Lots of teams seem to have a "money man" who will play a large role in deciding whether a move is financially prudent. The GM gets the glory and the blame, but both glory and blame may in many cases be an organizational rather than individual failure. Another thing about collaborative work like this is that some try to work towards consensus. Not always in the sense that the final decision is the one each individual would make if he or she were in charge, but that everyone involved contributed and doesn't outright oppose the final decision. So my question has been whether the big picture decisions for the White Sox are really being decided in much of a different way than before Hahn and Kenny were promoted. Beforehand, Hahn could have pushed against Kenny and/or Reinsdorf at times but it wouldn't have been news to anyone because who cares what Assistant GM thinks. But if the decisionmaking structure is unchanged but the people in it have new titles, does it now matter? Of course, maybe the structure has changed and Hahn has much more of a say than in the past. He certainly is taking on some tasks that Kenny did previously, but it's unknown to us if those are really the major decisions or not. I think he has more of a say. He is the one doing most of the communication with other GMs, agents. How much more remains to be seen. It has been reported how his ideas have been rejected, but are they every idea? I doubt it. I'd venture to guess the Sox have done something the last few years that Hahn really wanted and KW and JR weren't so sure.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) Not to mention getting there once and coming up short can often serve as a springboard to even more success the following season...just like teams who win can become complacent and rest on their laurels just as easily. Often? 4 times in the last 50 years has the loser of the WS made it to the WS the next year and won. And except for last year's Royals, the other 3 were so complacent and rested on their laurels after then winning, they made it to the WS the year after that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Hahn should get a prize for selling damaged goods? It's not like Frazier has led us to the playoffs. Marcus Semien has put up similar numbers at a tougher position for a fraction of the cost. And it's not even 100% a sure thing we will offer him a QO after next season if he hits below .200. You said Montas would have been very helpful. You love to make stuff up. He probably can't even help carry equipment. Semien was a trade that had to be made. Your words. Just clarify how Montas would have been helpful this year. The answer isn't Marcus Semien or Ubaldo Jimenez or Gordon Beckham or Robin Ventura is a HOF manager. You just blasted KW for mentioning a couple of bullpen pieces that got hurt. Now you are saying a guy who has been hurt all year would have been very helpful if they had not traded him. Make sense of it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 09:46 AM) The 2012 team found a way around that problem by bringing up 10+ rookies. Needless to say, this year's rookie class has come up woefully short and/or has failed to gain the trust of Ventura. We've gone a full year and still haven't produced one reliable pen arm, with the possible exception of Burdi. Duke, Jennings, Ynoa, Kahnle, Putnam, Turner, Ranaudo, etc., all came from other organizations. Danish, Beck and Fulmer all have struggled mightily. Montas would have been very helpful there. Montas would have helped a ton this year. What idiots for getting rid of him. He's had an unbelievable year.

If Rick Hahn is what many want to make him, no power, always gets kyboshed on any idea. Just does as he's told and spins KW's and JR's bad decisions to the media, he isn't nearly as bright and talented as he is made out to be. That's why I think, while I am sure they do not agree any everything, they do not disagree on everything as well. So however you want to make it, all 3 deserve equal blame. If Hahn really has no say so, or very little he has no backbone and should leave his job immediately.

https://suntimesmedia.files.wordpress.com/2...w=670&h=521 Maybe he just doesn't want to watch, but I'm thinking Shields shouldn't be looking away as he is releasing the ball. Perhaps maybe it is part of his command problems.

If some HS pitcher was mowing zit faced kids who will never be drafted, down like this, he would definitely be noticed. The fact that is guy is doing it to professionals, albeit low level pros, adds to the intrigue. It will be interesting to watch him develop or not develop. Right now the pick is looking pretty genius.

Sox score 3 in the first, then they remembered Q was pitchings, so only 1 more run. Shuck made a couple of really great catches, or it could have been a different story. Nice job by Q though. It is amazing how consistently good he is, and with such little fanfare.

Lawrie is actually a couple months younger than Saladino. It is probably a given that at some point he will land on the DL every year, but he has some power and plays so hard. I hope they keep him around for a while

At least they didn't waste a gem. 2 hits,