Dick Allen

As a poster stated earlier, cross Andrew Berlin off the list. Converting his kids,from Sox fans to Cubs fans? That should bring DCFS into the picture. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...824-column.html

Nice comeback win.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 10:14 PM) Well, I'm sure if your favorite team just gotten to the World Series for the first time in a decade (after patiently waiting through a 3-5 year rebuilding period), only to see Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Peralta and Victor Martinez depart in quick order, you would be none too pleased. Making things up again? You know nothing about what Dolan has done to destroy that fanbase. These were THE BEST fans in baseball for a generation, they don't just give up on the franchise overnight. So try googling "Dolan hate Indians fans frustrated" and see what comes up. So they alienated fans by trading a free agent to be Sabatthia in 2008 when they were 13.5 games out in July and got Brantley, traded a free agent to be Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez in 2009 when they lost 97 games and got Carassco and Materson. and traded Jhonny Peralta in 2010 when they lost 93 games and he was going to be a free agent. I guess then he idea of trading Sale or Quintana would only alienate the fan base, so I am sure you are against it. Or pretty much trading anyone of substance even if they have 2 months left on their contract. What is bizarre is after 2007 their attendance dropped when every baseball fan knows you get a bump the year after. It continued to drop until 2011 when all those guys were gone and it rose almost 500k. A generation? It was 7 years of having a stacked team.as soon as that team sprung a leak, they fled. That isn't a trait of the best fans. Do you make up as much garbage in real life and assume people are so stupid they will buy it? You make things up and when called on it, instead of just admitting you are busted, you make up even more. It is really fascinating. Start using facts, not stuff you just make up.

These people must be embarrassed about the new stadium name

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 07:55 PM) Mariners...new tv contract paying them $118 million per year, added hitting stars such as Cruz and Cano, uptick in attendance, much more competitive and have a good chance at the AL Wild Card if one of the AL East teams falters late Padres...well document, won the offseason of 2014-15 along with the White Sox, but are now in a committed rebuilding period, including dumping James Shields off on the White Sox, fans have been buying into that plan and blaming owner more than GM Marlins...worst owner in all of professional sports now that Sterling is gone (I suppose Daniel Snyder would get some votes, too), well document tear downs of numerous teams dating back to Huizenga after 1997 and 2003, and then Loria's "leadership," which included a GM being demoted to field manager in Dan Jennings. They do have Jose Fernandez, Giancarlo Stanton and a decent chance at the wild card spot. Beautiful new baseball stadium. So these are the only three organizations who have done worse at making the playoffs. All of them are sitting in better positions than the White Sox, both presently and for the future, with the exception possibly of Miami, Arizona, TB and Oakland. We're 25th in attendance, and you can argue quite logically we're the 26th best franchise in baseball, looking at current in-season results and minor league talent depth/prospect rankings. Cleveland is another situation, much like the Marlins, where the ownership group set the fanbase on fire by completely tearing down two mini-dynasties, especially alienating the fans after the 2007 season. But, at least, they hired one of the most respected managers in baseball and paid him as such. Everyone knows the Indians and Rockies routinely dueled over attendance trophies and Jacobs/Progressive set the record at the time for consecutive sell-outs (over a long, multi-year period). Again the year the White Sox won the World Series and were in first place every day of said season, they were in the bottom half of the league in attendance. Below the AL average. It will be they have to make the playoffs 2 years in a row, then 3. How did the Imdians alienate fans after the 2007 season? Was it trading CC when they were 37-51 and 13.5 games out in July? Or are you making things up again?

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 07:51 PM) At the old park IIRC there were days that that had walk ups well over 10,000. Yes half priced Monday's and Tuesday"s half price with a Pepsi can.

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 07:25 PM) For some reason the Walk Up factor has gone by the wayside in recent years, why? I don't know but the Sox especially at old Comiskey if they had a good year they would do really well with the walk ups. I guess it's all about the season ticket and advance sales these days. A lot has been made about the loss of our fan base, if you compare it to the days at old Comiskey it has grown quite substantially but if you compare it to most of the other teams in MLB in this day and age, it stinks. What I find amazing is how attendance has grown in all sports with ticket prices that are astronomical. A lot of teams are selling out all their games in many towns. When I was a kid the benchmark in MLB was 1 million, if you drew that many fans you were doing quite well, now 1 miliion is Tampa Bay bad. Most buy their tickets on line and through secondary sites looking for deals. They also plan in advanced more than in the past. Maybe HDTVs have something to do with it as well. I read a couple years ago the Sox had something like a walk up of 1500 and at that point it was the largest of the season.

Paulie even said he always thought Sox fans would come out when they are winning, but 2012 shocked him. People didn't show. It is going on in Cleveland now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 06:48 PM) Yes, and that 2007 team was terrible...not to mention the last 70 games of 2006 when they were 8 games below .500. That wiped out most of the bloom from winning the World Series. Every baseball fan knows the true attendance bump comes the following season after a playoff appearance. Not during, so much. So 2009 was lower than 2008.making the playoffs didn't help theSox, but I am sure there is another unique excuse. The fact is Most fans of teams look for reasons to go to games, Sox fans do the opposite, look for reasons not to go to games, such as your suggestion of Guaranteed Rate Field being on the ticket, and ruining a scrapbook opportunity. The horror. Hopefully the higher fee being paid will cover the loss of attendees due to a name on a ticket. And if attendance is so cut and dried, why do you make so many doom and gloom attendance posts every year?

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 06:40 PM) I'm not sure what years you are talking about with the 2 years winning 90 game and dropping in attendance. In 2005 when we won it all we drew 2.4 million , in 2006 it was 2.9 million actually 43,000 short of 3 million. Those 2 were 90 win seasons. In 2007, attendances dropped. Mad the playoffs in 2008, attendance down again and continued to drop every year including 2012 when the team was in first place most of the season, until last year.

When the White Sox won the WS, they were 17th in attendance. In 2012 when they were in first place most of the season they were in 24th. Winning helps but not a lot.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 03:25 PM) They offered Cespedes 5/$150 and he turned it down for less money per year and fewer years? If they offered Cespedes that contract and he signed it, you would have ripped the signing. You have to be realistic.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 03:13 PM) Upgrades from very bad to...just bad? Again, addressing your earlier point about the team is "trying not to be mediocre". If these are the "upgrades" they chose to make, when better upgrades were available, then I don't see how you can stand behind this mediocre statement you made. What were the better upgrades available, and don't say Cespedes because they tried.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) Loyalty is a two way street of course and as we discussed my opinion is that sports fans are under no obligation to support a bad product. No different from any other type of business and sports today is now a billion dollar business. You disagree with that and have made that clear consistently. Again I disagree with you but I respect your consistency. If the Sox want an average of say 2.5 million fans a year...fine, win 90 games three seasons in a row and they'll get that. Not have a winning season at least in six out of nine years...well that's a tough sell for anybody. Mark They did win 90 2 years in a row including a World Series the next year, attendance dropped. They made the playoffs the next year, the attendance dropped, 3 years later, spent most of the season in first place, the attendance dropped. There is no rhyme or reason here. We can move the bar for what will make White Sox fans show up to games like Bears, Cubs, Bulls fans do no matter what the state of their team. It will be interesting to see what happens to the Blackhawks once their run ends and they are just a meddling mediocre team for a while. I would imagine they have built up enough good faith that attendance won't change much. But the White Sox are the only major professional sports team in Chicago who wouldn't draw big in first place. That's fine, but there are consequences. The thought of some billionaire coming in on his white horse to buy the team from JR and starting to spend crazily thus setting attendance records is fantasy. Sox fans won't go until they win 90 games 3 years in a row? It will probably be a long time until they win 90 games 3 years in a row.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) That said, the reason we tell that to our kids is, it is hard to actually have success without effort. Effort does not guarantee success, but it certainly is one key ingredient to it. I agree, and I would imagine everyone wants their children to give max effort because it should translate in their best result. The problem is Hahn and KW best effort hasn't been good enough recently. Either that has to change or the guys making the effort has to change.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) They are trying to do so up to a given point. They have a line - having their buddies in the front office, turning a consistent profit - that they will not cross. Yet a good portion of Soxtalk wants them to be worse than mediocre and get rid of all of their best players, and claim Rick Hahn really has nothing much to do with the personnel decisions unless they are good ones.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) They signed Jimmy Rollins to be the opening day starting shortstop this year. They signed Austin Jackson to be the starting centerfielder. They signed the two-headed Navarro/Avila monster to be the catching tandem. Avi Garcia has been a starting player, replacing the great Adam LaRoche. They doubled down this summer by acquiring 34 year-old James Shields to be in the starting rotation for the remainder of this year and now for the next two years. Now what was that you were saying about the team "trying not to be mediocre"? Unfortunately HOFers weren't available. Jimmy Rollins replaced Alexei Ramirez. How is he doing? They wanted someone short term because Anderson was coming. Austin Jackson was fine in CF. Navarro/Avila replaced Tyler Flowers/Soto. Avi Garcia was supposed to be a bench player, LaRoche retired unexpectedly. Shields was trying to beat the pitching market. If Erik Johnson had shown anything, they don't make that trade. All of those moves could be considered upgrades at the time they were made.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 02:17 PM) They're unwilling to tolerate it from the players, but they're perfectly ok with it from management as long as they make an enthusiastic presentation at the end of the year explaining why it wasn't their fault. I would be one of the first to say in the real world results trump effort. We like to tell our kids that they go hand in hand, and often they do. Sometimes they do not. They are trying to not be mediocre. They haven't done a good job of it. Moving on from KW and RH makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't appear like that is in the cards at least for another year.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 02:05 PM) Every year, it's a roll of the dice.. the fan base is tired of it… the roster has been turned over numerous times in the last few years and have produced ZERO results.. which gets back to the "trying" issue again.. by maintaining the status quo in the organization, despite the results, it sends a message to the fan base that you are tolerating mediocrity…. I agree someone else at this point should probably be making baseball decisions, but the amount of changes made in recent years indicates they are not tolerating mediocrity. They are trying to overcome it. If they were tolerating it, they would keep the same players around year after year.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) I pretty much agree with everything you've said.. You make total sense... I have no argument, except for the fact that they are "trying" "trying" in my eyes would mean serious evaluation and if need be, making people who are, and have been in positions of authority accountable for performance… "trying" to make the ballpark a fun experience? I think they've accomplished that.. If they want to run the franchise like Great America and cater to a date night, family crowd.. that's fine… that's how it's been and they have their 26th out of 30 in MLB attendance and seem to be OK with that… An elite, powerhouse of a ball club, that strikes fear into the hearts of the opponent, and is fitting for a major market city? JR has people in power that have been "trying" to do that and have failed.. it's time to give someone else a "try" The effort is there. If you think they need a new crew making decisions, I can't argue with you there. If you say you have no desire to attend any more games the rest of the season, I can't argue with you there. That's fine. All I am saying is the effort to win is there, the effort to make going to the game enjoyable whether the team wins or not is there, whether it's executed to everyone's preferred level is up to each individual. I guess what I am getting at is you can't expect the Sox to do what the Cubs do. Their fanbase, by showing up no matter what, allows them to do what the Sox will not be allowed to do unless their ownership is willing to eat a huge loss or suddenly people change and start coming to games no matter what. I don't blame people for not coming, but not coming means tougher times. If JR replaces KW and RH, I wouldn't shed any tears, but from the sounds of it, that isn't happening, so we have to hope that this is the offseason where their plans actually work. The White Sox do a good job catering to families. Ricketts was quoted a year or so ago saying the Cubs really need to get better at that. So who knows, maybe while it doesn't show much now, maybe down the road it pays off.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 01:32 PM) 2006 followed a great year in 2005. Valuation jumped by $53 million. 2007 was a disaster and first losing season since 1999. So 2008 valuation jumped by $62 million. When a team continues to make money, some owners (sports or business) are very content to let it sail along. However, there are also owners that continually strive to improve the business. I live in Tampa part of the season and see a franchise that is constantly milking the situation and cutting costs rather than invest in the team. Then I spend part of the year in Boston. Unfortunately they aggressively try to improve the product. They make trades and fire coaches, managers, and front office when the product on the field is not meeting a high standard. I think JR is more a Tampa type owner than a Boston one. In fairness, his age may be the main reason he is content to put up with mediocrity. I disagree. He has been criticized for going for it. Obviously, he doesn't pull an Illich and try to win no matter the cost, but he's usually bottom 5 in attendance, how often are they bottom 5 in payroll?

Springsteen just played a 35 song 3 hour and 52 minute show.

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 01:21 PM) I'll just be referring to it as "at home" or "the park". It's a terrible name with no easy nickname. Take the money, and let that be the end of it. I think it will eventually be the Rate or GRate. One I thought was good was the G spot.

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) The AP tried really hard to find a scandal in the Clinton Foundation documents but there's really just nothing there. Yeah, a lot of noise from the extremely loud anti-Clinton chorus, but there's no actual evidence of anything they are implying. The worst thing anyone found was that she met with some donors (not a scandal. this is routine politician stuff). Some got access for various reasons, some were turned down. Trump is a donor to the Clinton Foundation. Considering his donation history or lack of, I wonder if he was pay to play.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) Marc "Scrabble" traded to the Nationals. How the hell did he pass through waivers? Great nickname.