Dick Allen

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 12:14 PM) If Abreu rakes through the end of the season, I wouldn't mind trading him in the offseason for a boatload of young studs. Abreu won't age well with his body structure, IMO. He appears a lot smaller than when he first hit the scene. He isn't bigger than Frank Thomas or Jim Thome and they aged OK. At the very least, maybe it will encourage the Sox to take away his glove.

With as many 1 run games the Sox have been involved with, one bat, whether it was Abreu being Abreu, Desmond, Cespedes, who knows, maybe even LaRoche...could have made a huge difference. But, they didn't have it. Going half assed , eyeing getting better at the deadline, burned them again. Of course, they could have spent money on Upton or Gordon, and KW would be getting cussed out for that right now. It appears it was damned if you do, damned if you don't this year.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 11:38 AM) According to the Sun-Times today Robin said Jose has been dealing with a hamstring issue. The story didn't quote Robin as saying how long that has been an issue but Jose has appeared to be having trouble running most of the season. Mark On Sunday you could really see it when Morneau doubled. It didn't stop the mouth breathers around me screaming at him for jaking it. You could tell he was limping. Hit homers, it's easier on your legs.

Whether is was an adjustment, being able to see his son, whatever, it is nice to know Abreu can still hit really well.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 09:31 AM) Which draft pick would have Desmond cost us? Burdi.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 07:44 AM) Lol that's the best part of it. Him wanting the Sox to wait until after the draft and then acting like he wanted the Sox to sign him from the beginning. That's just it. There were plenty that wanted Desmond. In fact in the Desmond thread, Steve pointed out how many wanted Desmond. Caulfield acts like he was the only one. He was the only one who kept mentioning June. I'll give him that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 07:16 AM) So it's somehow my fault the White Sox spent four times as much on James Shields...and missed out on getting back another compensation pick in 2017? They're not going to get anything back for Shields...hopefully you're taking that into consideration. If you go through that thread, I probably spent 1-2% of it on Parra and Latos and 98% of the time talking about Desmond. The way I wanted him was the only conceivable way the White Sox were going to get him...remember back then? They were only willing to give up to three years on Alex Gordon (which you wholeheartedly endorsed while I was tepid at best on that move, despite my appreciation for what he has previously accomplished), Cespedes and Upton, who wasn't even interested in the Sox. We can't be 100% sure or not whether they were willing to surrender the pick for Fowler, which would have been another positive move. If you add my $10 million for Latos, $8 million for Parra and the money the Rangers paid Desmond (minus another $2 million saved on their bonus pool), that would be $24 million for those three vs. $27 million for the James Shields commitment...and they would have even gotten a draft pick back for Desmond in 2017. Where does Carlos Rodon rank in WAR? Where does Mr. Duffy? Do you want to explain all your quotes throughout the years ripping him when they couldn't have been more off base had you thrown darts against a wall in order to determine which players to sign. Actually, the White Sox would be better off just making one of those prize barrels from The Bozo Show and just picking three to five random free agent names every year and allocating whatever was the agreed upon money....like putting the same amount of money into a mutual fund the 15th of the month regardless of market conditions. Whatever. It's just a good thing they don't listen to you. The funny thing is, you make it sound like you were the only person who wanted Desmond here, which is false. When I get time tonight, I will dig up MY post of signing him to replace Alexei a month or 2 before your June idea. It will be funny to see if you agreed with me. I tend to doubt it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 04:40 AM) So I was off by $2 million on Desmond. Wow. I overvalued him slightly, whereas there there less than five in that thread who wanted ANYTHING to do with him at all. Did Latos' agent send me his medical records that you know of? Pretty hard to know exactly what you're getting without opening the hood and seeing exactly what's left of the engine in order to make a legitimate bid. Parra signed three years for $27.5 million and an additional option for 2019, so I was close on that one as well. So basically it's my fault when I was predicting what the White Sox would do...which was not offer Desmond because they weren't willing to give up that precious draft pick that you keep saying has a negligible value in terms of career WAR from the #26 spot. You don't say anything about my assessment of him as an outfielder or all of the many pluses I mentioned consistently throughout. You're so consumed proving I was wrong on a technicality because he didn't make it to Jone, which actually proves my point is that he was a bargain that interested a number of well-run teams who can properly define "plus or added value." And Matt Latos alone was still able to contribute a lot more meaningful wins to the Sox than someone who costs more than Parra/Austin Jackson, Latos and Ian Desmond combined in James Shields...brilliant. No. It shows the way you wanted him wasn't availalable. When you were constantly told he won't make it to June you stayed the course. $10 million for Latos, $8 million for Parra and his -1.3 WAR. Of course you keep popping off about Finnegan and his -0.2 WAR, so you have a thing for below replacement players. At least Latos put up a 0.0 for the $10 million you would have given him. And no Shields didn't cost more than those guys combined. You are lying again Donald.

Turner is throwing 98 with movement. I am telling you, watch out for him as a reliever.

Dodgers put their 27th player on the DL this season tying the all time record.

So 9 innings 17 k's. That is pretty good.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 08:05 PM) Anderson is so fast once he gets going Yes. Sometimes it seems to take him a while to get going. He tends to watch the ball a bit too much. He has only grounded into 1 less DP his MLB career than Kris Bryant. Bryant must not hit ground balls.

What is going on with Steve Stones ear?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 06:19 PM) I would still take any of those moves over James Shields. Because the payroll impact wouldn't be carrying over into next season. And obviously we're the anti-Kings of Chicago now with people paid millions of dollars to get these things right. Even when they're consistently wrong, they still get to keep their jobs, mystifyingly. And almost nobody bought that Ian Desmond would have any value as an outfielder coming into this season (bring up the thread where I have literally 100 posts saying we should pursue him, before this season)...I was wrong that the White Sox would still be able to sign him in June, but that's because you have a good GM and manager in Texas who actually know what they're doing and how to assess talent. They also don't have to get caught up in preserving supplemental draft picks when they have an already established minor league talent pipeline. Hahn was too afraid Desmond wouldn't work out and there would be nothing left to show for the Shark deal. Glad you don't work for the Sox...because you said over and over again how terrible Danny Duffy is but that we should sign Alex Gordon. Lovely. I will give you credit for one thing. You finally manned up and admitted Semien has been decent instead of continuing to recite his error totals the first half of last season. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97876 Just read the first post in this thread you started, without hindsight of course. And read the entire thread. It has your offer of $10 million for Latos, $8 million for Parra and $10 million for Desmond in June. You were told several times Desmomd wouldn't be around in June, but you stuck with it. You say Hahn was scared, looks like you were too.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 06:13 PM) I didn't hate the Frazier move at the time. I thought it was smart to sell high on Thompson with how much his minor league stats deviated from the small major league sample. They just picked the wrong player to trade for. They used to be better at getting good veterans in trades but lately there have been way more misses than hits. There is something salvageable with Frazier. I wouldn't trade him for a low return. Playing for a contract a year in to the AL and a new city, he should bounce back some next year, and his power is still huge.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 04:18 PM) But the Sox got nothing. That's the big problem. Whoever scouted Frazier and Samardzija as elite talents, and Shields as a capable mid rotation guy simply cannot evaluate talent and do not belong anywhere near a professional baseball team. It's one thing to say prospects didn't work out - most don't - but when the "proven veterans" especially the ones that are worshiped as elite, are consistently average or below, there is a major problem. Were these veterans even seriously scouted? Did anyone actually look at their stats? And secondarily, indeed, I don't believe that the Sox FO is particularly capable in negotiating trades. On paper, they usually overpay. When the Dodgers preferred the 3 Sox prospects to Frazier, that should have sent a clear signal to the Sox* (if they had any self-awareness) that he was on the wrong side of this transaction. *Rabbitt is probably right Williams is making all of these inane moves, but, whoever is doing it, is just inept. No. The have Frazier, Ynoa, and Burdi. And while Shields has been awful, he did have 6 good starts and another decent one. Erik Johnson has an ERA over 9.00 with SD and is done for the year. It just cost the Sox money really. Tatis if he makes it, is a long ways off. If these are the worst trades the team ever makes, that is pretty good.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 05:37 PM) Even Matt Kemp with money coming back the other way would have been a much better move for that theoretical offense than James Shields, as/when Danks and Latos were both putting up much better numbers in the rotation. No. You would be calling for Hahn's law degree. But kings of Chicago. Hindsight is great. With a few hiccups like not understanding guys with stress fractures of their ribs can't help your bullpen, even you can figure out "what should have been done." Without it, you make these guys look like geniuses. If you use WAR to determine a players worth, your idea of Gerrardo Parra for $8 million wouldn't work out. WAR wise he would be the worst player on the White Sox. He would blow Avi away.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) Who are they going to replace him with? Its not like hes holding some prospect back. Might as well keep sending him out there and helping your draft position. They are about 7 games ahead of a top 3 pick, Shields is just the kind of guy to get you into contention for that. Assuming Gonzalez is back soon, Ranaudo, although he is pretty bad himself.

Semien has done pretty well. Bassitt hurt Phegley hurt Ravelo minor league fodder Trayce hurt Montas hurt Micah minor league fodder Of the 2 KW-esque trades, its not like they destroyed the White Sox. You do have to give up something to get something, but Semien is really the only one who would help right now and moving forward, would you rather have him at SS or Anderson? I'm pretty sure the Sox saw Semien as a 3B. Maybe if the trades weren't made, that is where he is right now. Any way, the team wouldn't really be any better now or really in future if they had passed on making these deals.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) Kaplan never said the Sox would be for sale. Bernstein did. Kaplan just said there was a rift between Hahn/KW. And the Sox responded immediately. Which they never do about anything. And from JR's talk with Kaplan, it appears the team is not going to be sold any time soon, and if there is a rift between KW/RH, it isn't big enough that they won't be together this next offseason.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 12:42 PM) IMO, or my guess is that Ventura will not return as Manager. Meanwhile, Hahn and Williams will continue to revamp the Scouting and player evaluation personnel they have after acknowledging how ineffective they have been. They will also seek to reqork the roster by adding hitters if they can fond them and trying to bolster the terrible bullpen. No matter who is in charge, that is going to be a tall order. Too many players have under-performed (Frazier, Robertson, Avila, Shields, Fulmer) , diminished their trade value, and hampered management's ability to trade them. As far as the Sox being for sale, everything is for sale at the right price. Kaplan created a rumor out of idle conversation that he instigated or perhaps out of whole cloth. I doubt the Reinsdorf family would sell their interest in the White Sox for several reasons. One of them is the interconnection with their ownership interest in the Chicago Bulls and their various media Contracts and promotional ties that they share or allow them to maintain greater leverage. Reinsdorf has a couple of sons who might step in if he retires, like old man Joe Ricketts children did or like the continuity in the Yankees/Steinbrenner organization. Here's something I read the other day. For as disappointing Frazier has been, and the supposed future star Trayce Thompson is, Trayce has a 0.4 WAR in 80 games this year. Apparently, his stellar defense has not been so stellar. I was reading where he routes are awful. Frazier has a 1.1 War in about 35 more games.

At some point it does no one any good to have him go out and get pounded. If he can't straighten out, Sit him down and hope some time off does the trick. I still think his head basically facing the first base dugout on release may be something that is pretty correctable and might make a difference. If he has some command, he still has enough to be a back of the rotation guy IMO. But if he continues to throw meatball after meatball, he has no chance.

KW did mention minor league staffs, which is exactly the same thing Stone mentioned on the Score a few weeks ago. I would imagine some minor league staff members get replaced. How high up the chain is anyone's guess. One thing we did find out this year, the 2015 team struggles don't appear to be Mark Parent's fault.

So Billy Butler missed the weekend series after Danny Valencia punched him right on the temple. Apparently some shoe guy was in the clubhouse and Valencia had some shoes he wasn't supposed to wear in games, only BP and warming up. He was wearing them in games, Butler thought it would be good to tell the rep Valencia was lying to him, and the fight started.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:55 AM) I disagree with part of this. raBBit has stated that Melky was a Kenny Williams decision. That offseason is the one that looks really bad in hindsight. They weren't ready to give up 2 draft picks that offseason and pay a premium for a closer. Rick Hahn was very popular here when all those moves were made. When they failed, they became KW moves. In fact, the one poster who rips all these moves the most, and tells you what should have happened, went one farther. He loved all these moves so much, he said Hahn and KW would be kings of Chicago if they could then complete their offseason and land Matt Kemp. Hahn does still enjoy back up QB status with many. But he does hold some responsibility for all these moves. If he has nothing to do with it but go to the media and explain the reasoning for making them, he should have done the honorable thing and quit his job.