Dick Allen

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) David KaplanVerified account ‏@thekapman I posed this to @CarmenDeFalco @ESPNChiCubs @Plesac19 As a Sox fan: Would u trade Chris Sale for Theo? lol Somebody needs to tell Kap, Theo is about to become a free agent.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) No they dont count at all. Game threads are the lowest common denominator of baseball knowledge than any thread in the universe. How do you not know this by now? You just choose to pretend that people are actually attempting at giving well thought out opinions and you then generalize a group of fans to fitting the narrative of your choice. Game threads are posters typing their emotions for that little voice in their heads while they are watching their team. Sounds like what goes on in most threads.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) A game thread!? You have to be kidding me. Game threads are no indication of what people actually believe and you know that. So opinions in a game thread don't count? I guarantee you if Fulmer busts, these same posters will be pointing out they told everyone so back in a game thread. Obviously, this year hasn't gone as planned for him, but sometimes failure makes you better. I still like this guy. And I like the fact the Sox were aggressive with him. I see no harm in what they did. They could have kept him in Birmingham mowing down hitters the same way. He now knows at least some of the things he needs to work on to get major league hitters out.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) LOL DA you know damn well anybody that would do that just doesnt know baseball. I havent even seen anybody to say that and if you did you cant paint the picture as if there are a group of people that believe that. You are being overly dramatic as usual. Some have written him off. Read a gamethread. Until a highly touted White Sox pitcher fails, I'm going to think they know what they are doing with them . Positions players, I'm with the complainers. Assume the worst.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) He pitched 150 innings last year in college and the minors. He ought to have surpassed that this season, or at least matched it. He's at 98 right now. They are on a nice path to having his innings actually go DOWN from what he threw in 2015. Might go down a bit, but relief innings with all the warming up etc. are a bit more on the body. Chris Sale went from 71 innings to 192 between 2011 and 2012. Hopefully, Fulmer puts it together next season, and there is no reason to think he wouldn't be prepared to go 175.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) That's no where near "having no problems putting guys away". You just didn't check first. There was no reason to call this pitcher up from that performance. At least give him a couple months to make sure his turnaround was legit. He wasn't having problems. I don't see what is wrong with challenging a guy, and keeping his innings, which were going to be limited, in check. He pitched about 9 innings. Big deal. This could have been the plan all along. If he could contribute to the bullpen and they were contending, he probably is still on the team. Now they can send him down, stretch him out and bring him back for a couple of starts, and he and the team will have a better idea of where he stands for next season instead of just hoping. Some have already written him off as a wasted draft pick.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) No it was not. I actually checked. In order. Callup 5 innings, 2 runs, 103 pitches (lot of pitches for 5 innings) 7 innings, 0 runs, 3 hits, 4 walks (solid start) 7 innings, 0 runs, 2 hits, 2 walks (his best start of the year) Those 3 starts followed: 4.1 innings, 6 runs 6.2 innings, 3 runs 6 innings, 3 runs 4 innings, 3 runs, 7 walks 2.1 innings, 9 runs. Prior to those 3 strong starts his ERA was 5.82, and it had basically been over 5 all year. Literally 3 starts of success. I think he had a string of 3 or so starts in April that were pretty good. And those 6 innings 3 runs games might have been better than they look on paper.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 02:27 PM) Given the choice, I'll let Ventura stay and remove Hahn and Williams. However, I think the wisest, most obvious course is to clean house completely. After all, you can't be sure which part is the failed part, they may all have, so just replace the whole thing and you've got a shot at fixing it. That's fine. I do think of the 3, firing Robin makes the least amount of difference. And I am sure he won't be back. It will win over some people, but they will hate the next guy just as much if they don't fix the roster. And from JR's call to Kaplan, it seems Hahn and KW are confirmed for another year.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) How would you know that? As a fan that doesnt have insight to what goes on behind the scenes I would think the most effective way of judging a manager is by a good sample size of baseball seasons of making or not making the playoffs, to start. Then you see if they have control of the locker room. Players doing what they want or throwing tantrums dont help a managers case. The roster has a lot to do with winning and losing. The reality is most managers who are supposedly great have had some really bad years and it wasn't because they were suddenly stupid. If Robin is a big part of the problem, the roster isn't nearly as bad as many want to make it. Would that be fair?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) For literally 3 starts. It was longer than that. Besides, he had an innings limit so moving him to the bullpen on the major league roster made some sense. Now they will stretch him out a couple of AAA starts and maybe he gets a start or 2 in September.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) What a horrible post. When did anyone ever say Robin was the difference between making & missing the playoffs? Seriously, I guarantee you couldn't provide a single post from this forum stating that, let alone multiple of them. But yup, those of us in favor of firing Robin are the delusional ones. And is that really your argument for keeping Robin? That because Robin isn't worth 9+ games, which is what it would take for us to make the playoffs this season, we should keep him? If so, all I can say is that's some f***ed up logic. If replacing Robin makes us even a single game better, then it's a move worth making. I'm so sick of the same old "managers don't matter" defense for keeping a garbage one. If managers really didn't matter, which is incorrect, then you shouldn't give two s***s if we replace him. At this point in time, there is no defense for keeping him. Maybe a change doesn't add much value, but it simply can't hurt. You are delusional if you think it suddenly makes this team any better. All he was saying was great fire Robin. The reality is he is the least of the White Sox problems. There are several players you should hope get "fired" before him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) I can't believe Robin still has supporters. He's accomplished NOTHING in his tenure here and quite frankly there's no logical defense for keeping him. Thank god the front office finally realizes this and the pointless argument can end. He will be gone, but unless you want to give JR, RH, and KW some credit, no one was going to win with the hand Robin was dealt.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) I was actually referring to the Yankees. OK. I agree. Chapman coming back makes too much sense. He even hinted it at his Cubs press conference.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:47 PM) Yeah they aren't doing a full rebuild or anything. They'll be in on a lot of the free agents next year with so much money cleared. I actually expect them to sign Chapman. I don't think they will do a full rebuild, but I do think they will trade one of Q or Sale for prospects and a major league piece, probably Robertson as well, and see what they can put together.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) Granted I don't get to see him much, but the impression I have of him as a manager is Ozzie Guillen-esque. Bunting, base stealing ,and loud. He doesn't seem loud to me, but he is definitely old school and not too into advanced stats.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) I don't think Mike is going to have the choice. I think his time has come in Anaheim and he's due for a fresh start. He's going to get a lot of dough though and most likely I presume would take a season off. I think a change in scenery would do him very good and I'd love it if the Sox were to get him, but I don't see it happening. It's hard for managers to win with crappy players. They spent a lot of bad money. I think the Pujols contract looks worse at the end than ARod's.

With a guy like Burdi, if he is just blowing away AAA hitters, how is he going to get better? I understand the rushing guys crowd, but Fulmer was having no problems with AA guys at the time he was recalled. Burdi doesn't seem to be having problems with anyone now either. Chances are they will struggle here, but they and the team get a better idea of where they are at, and what needs to be improved. It obviously isn't a strategy for everybody, but if you are a better prospect and not really being challenged at your level, you aren't going to get better.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) So Hahn and KW will/should fall on their own swords to preserve Ventura's managerial position? Great. At least it would be a direction of some sort. What would the White Sox record be with the "proper" manager? There may be no need for a rebuild.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 11:14 AM) Post of the Year. Give Hahn and KW lifetime extensions. Between this year's draft and the Sale/Q contracts and 2005, thry're set for at least another 3-5 more years before you give up defending them. You've already started to tip in thst direction this year in recent months, but just enjoy playing devil's advocate too much. You're better off attacking Cooper and wondering where all the anti-Steverson outrage is...probably something to do with him being invisible AND not a former Sox player and not involved in the Guillen/KW/Coop circus/spy ring. Wow.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 11:09 AM) These guys aren't 12 year old kids. Do you really think a manager has that much influence over the way a guy whose been playing baseball for a minimum of 15 up to 30+ years? Come on. The difference between the best managers in the game and the worst is maybe a few wins a year. And besides, how the hell do you know what goes on in the locker room? For all you know Ventura could be preaching the kinds of things you're saying day in and day out. Are you honestly advocating benching a guy like Adam Eaton because he doesn't run out one ground ball? Eaton was actually told to take it easy going to first base on some routine plays as he tends to injure himself.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 11:01 AM) If the White Sox traded away Santiago and the equivalent of Finnegan, let's say Fulmer...and actually got anywhere close to the playoffs, that would be great. As long as one team or GM buys into the hype, you have a trade partner. Besides, Cueto was about as good as Hector Santiago with the exception of two key post-season starts that rescued his legacy from terrible disappointment to....still not invited to the White House. Not to mention the Cubs, Cardinals and Pirates all can hit a little bit. Sox traded Santiago, a guy you valued as a top of the rotation starter who turned out to not be a top of the rotation starter for Adam Eaton, a guy who might put up a 6.0 WAR this year. Outstanding trade.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 10:55 AM) Witty aphorism but I'm pretty sure most good businesses care very much what their customers have to say. Maybe JR does not consider people like you and me to be customers though. I only bring my family to a handful of games, watch a bunch on TV, and buy White Sox apparel. Hardly worth paying attention to someone like that. Yes, the White Sox probably seek more opinion from their fanbase than any other team in baseball. However, seeking personnel advise for a MLB team from your fanbase is a lot more crazy than anyone who disagrees with your opinions.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 10:52 AM) And you said Danny Duffy wasn't very good at all and Ubaldo Jimenez was the prize of the free agent class a couple of years ago. Then you'll come back with something about Puig, and around and around it will go. Have at it. Whenever you make those comments, these pitchers invariably throw multiple shutouts against the Sox. Besides, going by your philosophy, pitching to a 10-7 record on two of the worst teams in the American League, he'd be 13-5 with the White Sox and contending for a Cy Young. He's a valuable and MUCH cheaper version of our innings eater, James Shields. At any rate, compare his 10-7 with Rodon's record. Isn't he our #3? It's just funny you don't mention Hector anymore with his 4.80 ERA and his well over 5.00 FIP, or Finnegan who is in the same boat, and even the Reds are thinking back to the bullpen..

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) JR seems to have rabbit ears when it comes to radio show hosts. Wonder if he follows Soxtalk? As the old saying goes, you start listening to the fans, you wind up sitting next to them.

The Yankees idea of a rebuild is a bit differnet than most. They did trade Miller, but they traded 2 free agents to be, and are cutting ties with 2 veterans who can't hit .200 anymore. These moves were not exactly drastic.