Dick Allen

QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) again, i am not going to key on anything else except the bold. we, the fans really do not know what the term max is when it is coming from the sox FO. it can carry many meanings. The White Sox are never going to say they have a bunch of money to work with. The thing is, there is no reason to freak out over this season yet. Wait at least until the season starts. There has been a ton of speculation over the years about the Cubs popularity vs. the White Sox. Harry Caray, WGN, being owned by the Tribune,....those are all nice theories, but the fact isthe White Sox were doing better than the Cubs until 1984 happened. In 1982. 1983, and 1984, despite Haary being their announcer and the Cubs being on WGN, the White Sox outdrew the Cubs. Then th Cuns won a division and it created the monster they are now. During that year, they traded for their lead off hitter and 3rd place hitter the last week of spring training. They also acquired their ace during the season. I am not for waiting until the season starts to improve the team. From what Hahn repeatedly said at Soxfest, neither is he. He did mention opening day as a deadline. Why don't you see what the team looks like then before determining what they are doing not worthy of fans support? I blasted JR one time for payroll. That was 2009 when they held season ticket holder 2008 playoff money, increased ticket prices, and reduced opening day payroll. I found that to be BS. When you have a full season, those unused WS tickets add up. Now, I believe they have altered how they hold the money. The payroll is fine, and is just about a lock to be higher by opening day.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 09:08 AM) For that price, it's still a good move in all likelihood...but it's troublesome that there were few takers. Supposedly one team was willing to give him a deal where he could earn $9 million with incentives, which also isn't far off the projection. Hahn has been a below average GM so far...with the caveat being we don't know all the other possibilities that were taken off the table by JR other than Samardzija and Tanaka. If you can make the case he's an excellent GM, have at it. Then why do you want them to sign Desmond? There are so few takers. In fact in your original post where you forgot about wanting Latos for so much more money, you said sign Desmond in June. That would mean he had zero takers. Once again you can't make your constant negativity make any sense. Hahn did what you wanted only a lot cheaper and you still find fault, would you rather give Latos $3 million or Ian Kennedy $70 million?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Unfortunately I don't have access to the same inside information the other GM's have on Latos. On paper, without considering his personality issues, he should be receiving offers of $8-12 million based solely on his more than reasonable statistical projections. Again, you wanted Hahn to give him $10-12 million. He signed him for $3 million. Why no praise? Doesn't it still accomplish the things you said it would accomplish on the pitching end? Not having the same inside information hasn't kept you from telling us how every move the White Sox make is wrong.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:38 AM) I didn't say they should give him that money. Just that he was at one point expected to get $7-10 million and possibly more. That said, nobody has any idea about his affect on the clubhouse yet, so it's a bit early to celebrate like some prematurely did on the Paulino deal. Hindrance, btw. Oh really. Latos for $10-12 million (one year) Parra for $8-10 million (one year) add Desmond in June for 4 months....$10 million Wouldn't that be much more of an impact because...? 1) You're only spending roughly $5 million than on Cespedes 2) You now have credible insurance for injury/non-performance pitching-wise 3) You can get a pick if Latos does really well and/or trade him in June/July 4) Players would have more motivation to perform for bigger FA payoffs in 2017 5) You also have insurance for Saladino...not to mention PR, outfielder (potentially) or DH in the case of LaRoche or Avi flop 6) You don't have to worry about huge financial commitments with back end of Big 3 guys blowing up in your face and blocking efforts to reload/retool like Dunn/LaRoche/Danks deals have effectively done 7) Injury risk is spread across three players rather than just one I wonder why you didn't have these Latos concerns when you thought it would be a good idea to give him 4 times the amount Hahn got him to sign.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:28 AM) Oh, you're correct. They do have some guys signed for less than they are worth including Sale, Quintana, Eaton, and Abreu. And some of the other guys could end up being bargains, too. My point was that the 2-3 bad contracts are tying up a good chunk of the $120 million that is being talked about. If the Sox do have a number they won't go over (and there probably is one, but it's not $120 million or even a little more than that), those bad contracts would hinder their ability to spend on the guys they need. The discussion (argument) has been that the Sox won't spend because they are stuck on a number...$120 million. That's not true. They haven't signed Fowler, Desmond, etc. yet because there's not a match. The Sox are willing to the right amount of money on the right guy. They were willing to spend a certain amount for Cespedes or Gordon, but they are willing to spend less on these other guys. Some of that reasoning is driven by what they have allocated so far, but not all of it. What is strange to me is although there is a lot of talk about the QO being a hinderence in a Desmond or Fowler signing, there hasn't been one report I have seen giving any indication of their demands. SD chose Alexei over Desmond. It was for peanuts. I would imagine the Sox wouldn't have let Alexei walk for $3 million unless they are allocating those funds elsewhere, and I don't think Latos for $3 million was a reality back then.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 08:10 AM) Now you're confusing me with Thad Bosley's humor...I don't recall ever mentioning the White Sox being broke when that's vurtually impossible due to all their lease guarantees/subsidies. If they were broke, by the way, there would have been no point to starting this very thread about Desmond and Austin Jackson almost two months ago. You have said the payroll was maxed. You even said there was no way thy didn't lose money last year. You make so many statements about the White Sox basically being hopeless you can't even remember what you wrote. And when does a thread topic matter to you? Besides, you made the Desmond thread when it appeared the White Sox were going to sign Cespedes, just like you made your Royals thread where YOU wrote you don't overpay for free agents or give them more than 3 years even if they are your own, when it appear the Royals were out on Gordon and the White Sox were the front runners. Those are just facts. The White Sox could trade for Trout and Harper and you would find something wrong. I am just shocked you haven't praised Hahn for signing Latos for $3 million after you said they should give him $10-12 million.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 07:59 AM) The Mets... Mets paid Cespedes about $4 million. Maybe a little less. If this payroll "flexibility" is so important, you should be applauding the White Sox, a team you have already told us several times is broke, for not spending every last dime now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2016 -> 07:35 AM) It's important to note both those teams had the payroll flexibility to not only add signifiant pieces at the trade deadline, they also had the more important ability to buy premium talent with surplus prospect depth (Cespedes, Cueto, Zobrist). Both teams ended up much higher in payroll than where they began the season. How come in your Royals manifesto you said the Royals didn't pick up salary with Zobrist and Cueto? If they didn't pick it up, how is their payroll increased? Not picking up money doesn't equal payroll flexibility. Also, the White Sox did make a run at Cespedes at the deadline.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 14, 2016 -> 11:41 PM) $120 million is a lot of f***ing money. Neither WS team had a $120 million payroll last season. In fact, both started last season below the White Sox. The Sox have had some much better than average team payrolls the last 5 or 6 years. And while I agree, the model to go into a season short hoping to add, is one this franchise has played out, cheap is not been what this team has been, especially if you consider thing like attendance. http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm What wins games is talent, not how much you are paying him. If Sale were paid market rate, and Quintana for that matter, payroll wouldn't even be discussed.

QUOTE (Brian @ Feb 14, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) Kind of like fans on a message board determining if a pro athlete is too injured to play or not. I hope you aren't referring to General Soreness. The guy wasn't even on the injury report. He was so hurt he said he would be good to go 2 days later. I can understand him taking a day off here and there, but not when your team is reeling and the best player on the team is out vs, a team you could be battling for a playoff spot.

DRose giving Jimmy advice about how to handle his injury. Perfect.

QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) i pm some other poster and to tell you the truth, i never, ever thought the sox would have signed latos. i was content with Alfredo Simon or Tim Lincecum. that threw me, getting latos. I don't know if that is being a great GM because that move, and I really am not a fan of Latos, was a no brainer. But it is shocking to me he did it with basically no incentives. He must really want to work with Coop and/or the Sox training staff.i don't think the Sox would actually promise him a spot in the rotation no matter what. He also hates being pulled. The Sox hang with their starters longer than most. Whatever the motivation, I think it blows away the moves they have basically been spending this amount of cash for recently. It isn't like he is going to have to be very good to earn his paycheck. If he returns anywhere near to form, he is an unreal steal.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) These are all great examples of the Sox FO " posturing " in the past. In all honesty, I truely believe the FO does this so they do not get the hopes up of fans in case they fail to deliver and why the FO comes across as being so vague at times. Can you imagine the back-lash if the Sox say they are going after a specified player and fail to deliver? Holy smokes, the back-lash would be beyond furious. The last time I recall the Sox naming a player they were going after was Torii Hunter and we all know how that turned out. Imo, that was a lesson the FO learned from and why they try not to be specific with names. I do believe the budget is tight but also believe the Sox have some excess money to spend and are willing to do so, but only for what they perceive to be the right player and circumstances. Seeing as how I don't work in the FO or have inside information, all I can do as a fan is sit back and trust they are out there doing their best in continuing to improve the team. Hahn has come out said numerous times they have " many irons in the fire " so that's why I remain patient and willing to see how this plays out. I get emotional enough during the season when games are played, no point in me getting started just yet. It's too soon. Patience fellow Sox fans. Patience is correct Gallardo is going to get $40-45 million allegedly Latos got $3 million Signing Ian Kennedy in January cost $70 million

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 08:56 AM) With 2nd tier free agents, does the end justify the means to improve the overall team? Are ticket and SOX apparel sales going to spike signing 2nd tier free agents like they would with players such as Cespedes/Gordon/Upton? Nope. Is giving up a draft pick and taking on the salary of players like Desmomd/Fowler worth the risk? Possibly and that's certainly debatable depending on ones POV. Personally, I think the risk is justifiable depending on the annual salary and length of contract. I would imagine the Sox FO office sees it the same way and are only willing to go so far and I don't blame them in that regard. What has the Sox FO spewed that has made fans so gullible? All they have said is that they are exploring all opportunities with reference to trades and free agents that do and do not come with comp picks attached. They have yet to come out and name a player they were directly going after, nor should they. As far as the financials go, we as fans have no choice but to take their word because none of us know exactly just how much money they have to spend, only speculation based on opinion. Due to the Sox willingness to spend in the past for what they perceive to be the right player(s) and as recently as last winter, I see no reason for me to question them just because some writers and tweeters were wrong with their " inside " information. It's the fans fault for allowing their selves to get suckered by those " insiders " , not the FO. There was 6 positional holes to be filled going into the off season. Did anyone realistically see the Sox filling all 6 of those voids? I sure as hell didn't. So far they have filled 3 of those 6 holes. Let's look at those 3 holes that are left SS, RF or OF and DH. The Sox rolling the dice with Saladino at SS is justifiable based on Saladino's defense and to serve as a potential place holder to Anderson for a season. DH, well we all know LaRoche isn't going anywhere and just have to accept that in retrospect, he was a bad signing. Sometimes FA signings just don't work out and the Sox aren't the only team this happens to. RF/OF, well, that's really what were talking about here and the Sox have actually acknowledged they are seeking an OF bat, preferably a LHB. The off season is not over, opening day has yet to arrive, so there's no reason for me to doubt they are indeed still seeking that upgrade for the OF. If the Sox fail to upgrade the OF before opening day, then you can bet I'll be unhappy about it but, I will still give the FO credit for adding Frazier/ Lawrie/ Avila/ Navarro/ Latos and re-signing Albers while moving on from duds such as Flowers/ Beckham/ Samardzija/ Soto etc. All I'm saying is that I'll withhold any criticisms I may potentially have until I see what the final 25 man roster looks like at the end of ST. Still plenty of time for the Sox to make upgrades and despite what some think, I feel the Sox have come a long way and I'm pretty excited about that. I agree with this 100%. And to me, Nightengale saying the Sox are out of cash is like white smoke at the Vatican. Something must be imminent. They were out of money, they trade for Peavy. Even have less than no money, claim Rios. Busted again, find $4 million to pay Manny for a month. Totally busted Paulie is leaving, AJ is leaving,....sign Dunn, bring Paulie and AJ back.

QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) yeah that was last nite on mlb rumors page. so with you statement of bi-polar fans, i guess i am whomever disagree with the masses on this site are regulated to being bi-polar. really nice. however the window of opportunity is do something is now, there is an expiration date on this talent of this team, i would like to max out the success of the main core. not to wait for the money to come off the books in order to make other moves. btw, look at the state of the system, beside anderson, do the sox have other prospect to step in and succeed next yr, look at the fa's do you imagine the sox org to spend money and are there good fa next yr, or fa's that are a better fit than this yr group??? No by bipolar, the excitement generated by a tweet saying the White Sox are contemplating a run at Ian Desmond, and then the total opposite when Nightengale says they are out of cash. I follow these national writers as much as the next guy, but the only things they are really accurate at tweet wise is breaking signings. Signings you would find out about in a half an hour anyway. The vast majority of their information is just noise. GMs are on the phone almost every day, for a good part of the day, but how many deals do they make? The fact is the season doesn't start for almost 2 months. Rosters don't have to be set by this weekend. I have said if the Sox go half assed they should get skewered. Right now it is half assed. They need at least one more guy. But to criticize them now is silly. There is still time. At least at this point they are one guy away from most people thinking they are legitimate.

According to Rosenthal, the Sox are still searching for OFs including Fowler, and may even trade Avi. So does bipolar Soxtalk get happy again?

QUOTE (shysocks @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 07:18 AM) What you guys gloss over is that the team picked a direction when they traded for Frazier, and so far they've been unable to finish the job. If they weren't comfortable with the costs it would take to make this team a real contender, then they should have noticed the deals teams like Atlanta were making and torn it down. I'm not just b****ing because I'm dumb and believed all the tweets and now they won't sign all the free agents I want. I'm mad because we've traded away a bunch of assets to become a .500 team. I still believe they will get another OF. No one has yet to report what Desmond and Fowler and Jackson are asking. To say the White Sox aren't negotiating correctly by not giving them whatever they want isn't fair. They aren't the only team that could use these guys yet no team has signed them yet. When they are all gone and Avi is flailing away in RF and the White Sox are in 4th place, criticize all you want, they would deserve it. But right now? We all live on every latest tweet, yet how many actually are ever true? There is no doubt the budget is bigger for a guy like Cespedes or Gordon than it would be for a guy like Fowler or Desmond. but unless there is some horrific injury, Fowler, Desmod, and Jackson's prices aren't going higher. They are going to have to eventually settle, Desmond turned down over $100 million. Do you really think he would sign for 2 years $25 million right now or 3/$36 million? Maybe, but IMO, unlikely. There will be a time when he has to settle. It isn't now. Same with the other guys.

Every time the White Sox have cried poor, they soon added payroll.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) I bet you were saying that the Bears should get rid of Thomas Jones and keep Cedric Benson. Cause you know, RBs over 30 are always worse than younger rbs. LOL Bad example. Jones wasn't even 30 when the Bears let him walk. Forte has a ton of miles on him. Spending their money elsewhere isn't a dumb idea.

QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) Yes but the power fascination is not working. Getting the Thome's, Dunn's, Loroches, hasn't worked the last 10 years wouldn't you say judging by 1 playoff appearance. We hit a good amount of homers in 05 but the key was Scottie pods and Iguchi at top the order and getting the lead for the first 30 plus games of season. We only play 81 games at home and i think we have plent of power to win judging by what the last few WS winners have done. With our pitching defense is more important and if some here feel with our outfield defense the same as last year and Desmond and Lourie will be better than last year i hope your right because i don't see it personally. But that's what make this board fun!! It was fashionable to say Scotty Pods et al was a different mix, but 2005 was won with power and pitching. They scored the same percentage of runs in 2005 via the longball vs. 2004, hit fewer home runs, but scored a lot fewer runs. What won, was the pitching and homers. Without, the drought would be almost as long as the Cubs.

QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 01:32 PM) What is your fascination with power? KC HIT 97 and 135 homers the last 2 years and were one out away from another World Series win. SF won multiple World Series with little power as did the Cardinals. We have enough power to win if we had better OBP IMO. And Markakis would be a huge upgrade over either on of our corner outfielders hands down. He is not a gold glover anymore but still above average for sure and i think he might have won a GG in 2014. Do we really want to add a guy like Desmond who has been declining the last few years and not just ist half of last year? Averaging 171 strikeouts and 24 errors over the last 3 years is a steady decline and not just a bad half. He just seems like a bad fit for a team that needs better defense and OBP than power. Those teams played half their games in ballparks not as conducive to hitting home runs. White Sox teams that don't hit HR since moving into USCF, with maybe one exception, have totally sucked. The park has played as a pitcher's park except for home runs in recent years.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) Also remember that Noah entered that series on basically one leg that led to that surgery. Yeah,blaming losses now on injury, LMAO. They have been hurt ever since Rose's MVP year. Even with minutes restrictions. Even without Thibs. Noah used to get hurt before Thibs was ever there. What I don't get about Greenstein and anyone else who thinks Thibs being gone had to happen, how can you say that, but come up with excuses this season? They had the coach they wanted. They had the roster they wanted, and now it's worse than ever. Even their players are saying they are losing games they used to win. Taj getting hurt? Is that something new? He gets hurt every season. If you aren't going to get rid of Gar/Pax, you must get rid of Hoiberg.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 11:45 AM) Desmond and his agent have been selling himself on his willingness to play the outfield. Whether he would actually be good at it is a different question. I have stated before, if you don't want Desmond to play SS or 3B, or 2B, you should probably just get a real OF. For all we know, he might make Avi look like Dwight Evans in RF.

I wouldn't mind Desmond. I think Fowler makes the team better.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 08:33 AM) Heyman "Reds believe orioles do have prospects to make a Bruce trade. O's also looking at fowler, alvarez. Likely to add 1 hitter." https://mobile.twitter.com/JonHeyman/status...986467390427136 Go ahead Orioles, trade for Bruce! I would think most high schools have the prospects to trade for Bruce.