Dick Allen

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:06 PM) I think it was a Dodger scout that said this kid just flat out CANT play. I know I read it somewhere but I cant find it. I dont think the cricket guys will translate over to baseball as some might think at first thought. Maybe someone will, but you are better off signing a guy like this than opening some academy trying to develop players who have never played playing against players who have never played.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 02:59 PM) Not if it happens midseason. And who are you going to be able to draft at 28 next June that will help the White Sox midseason?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:02 PM) So? The White Sox just acquired Brett Lawrie for JB Wendelken and Zach Erwin, yet by your current logic path, those players would have no bearing on the future of the white sox because they are not top picks and top prospects. The extra budget pool we acquire with the 28th pick lets us get a couple more JB Wendelken and Zach Erwin and possibly a gigantic lottery winner. The explicit players may end up not succeeding for the white sox, but that doesn't mean they are without value if they don't make big leagues for the White Sox. Not at all. One of them they actually acquired as a throw in for the Peavy deal. The other guy was picked last year without the 2nd and 3rd rounders. What you are missing is the Sox would be getting the services of a major league player. One that has outperformed Brett Lawrie.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) The problem really comes if someone at the major league level flops or gets hurt with that lack of depth. You can pick up OF off the scrap heap though. Signing Fowler makes just as much, actually more impact on your immediate depth than a draft pick who won't be ready for a while.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) Wasn't that all overblown with KW? Hahn apparently had no problems dealing with him over Rodon (yet.) Scott Boras is a problem for every team. Unless you want to give Austin Jackson a deal like KC gave Ian Kennedy, he is prepared to wait it out, at which point any alternatives will be gone. I have no idea what they are asking right now, but I assume if it was anything like a 1 or 2 year deal for $8 million a year, he would have a team.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 02:39 PM) I think you are missing the forest for the trees here, Dick. If we want to continue to spur top level FAs and use our farm to get major league ready players, that single pick may lead to 3-4-5 additional high school or other players into our system that otherwise would not be. Last year was extremely thin with among other things 2 picks missing and then less signings after. It should be even more valuable to Sox, not less. If Carson Fulmer is a pitcher, no matter how well the other draftees do, the 2015 draft is a big success. When Larry Himes rebuilt the White Sox, his first rounders were studs. In 3 of his 4 drafts, the rest of the draft produced pretty much next to nothing. The only guys he drafted after the 1st round that signed and helped the White Sox were in 1990 with Ray Durham and Jason Bere. He also drafted Bob Wickman that year who was eventually traded for Steve Sax. Yet those drafts turned the White Sox into contenders for a while.

The problem with Austin Jackson is Scott Boras.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) The whole premise is you need to get somewhat lucky and find one superstar. Yao Ming singlehandedly put basketball on the map in China. If you had an American version of Pele and the US Men won a World Cup, things would definitely start to change...look at the incoming talent (albeit non minority) drawn into the PGA the last decade because of Tiger Woods, for example. Russian female tennis players or South Korean female golfers...just takes one. Those sports don't require as much time to master as does hitting a baseball. If you aren't exposed to it, it isn't something you can just pick up because you're a great athlete. Jared Mitchell was a great athlete.

Here's a SSS article on the Avi/Peavy trade. The Sox were asking for the right guys from Oakland. http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/7/31/4573...-trade-analysis

All the players that have been mentioned did play in HS and were exposed to the sport much earlier than that. What is going to motivate some cricket player from stopping cricket so he can attempt to somehow beat tremendous odds, move halfway across the world and play baseball? And that decision is going to have to be made probably when they are 12-14 years old at the very latest. The million dollar arm guys got a combined $8k bonus. Are there any baseball leagues in India? I look at it this way, how many Americans play in the Premier soccer leagues in Europe? And there is a ton of soccer playing here. In the suburbs, you see far more soccer games than baseball games in the parks on a Saturday afternoon. Being athletic helps, but being a baseball player is better. It's a huge untapped population, but even the bad players on a major league team are great. The amount of money and time it would take would be prohibitive. You are better off spending that money on scouting and signing these young international free agents.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) Odds are pretty high that the player drafted #28 by the Sox this year is automatically their #4 prospect (being some combination of Anderson, Fulmer, and the #10 pick), and a decent chance at being a top 100 prospect in the game within the next year or two. The team also then has a few options in the draft. They could go the Astros route of saving money on their top pick, and then getting a sliding player at #28. They could go under on the 28th pick, and pick a guy with a big demand that they might not have drafted at #10. They could go under slot at either #10 or #28 and use that money to bring in a post round 10 HS kid that had planned on going college and add another kid they didn't have a chance at before. For the team that has traded away 3 of their top 10 prospects in the last few months, that has a lot of value. I know you keep saying they have a "normal" draft if they give up the pick, but I think a large part of why they didn't give up Samardjiza was because of assigning a specific value to that particular pick. It is an asset. The big difference is if the Sox do hit on a major league player with that pick, they will pay them $1.5 million over three years while they would pay Fowler somewhere around $10 million a year for each of three years. So while the odds are low of it happening, if it does happen, the payoff is big. That Astros route didn't work out so well for them. I think the would have been better off with Bryant and Rodon rather than Appel and Aiken.

Steve Stone was on White Sox Weekly a couple of weeks ago and he was emphasizing the White Sox really wanted a LH hitter. He almost made it sound like they actually had some interest in Chris Davis. Cespedes has reverse splits so that would have worked. They were in until the end with Gordon. So I think if it came down to it, Fowler being a switch hitter, even though Jackson is about the same vs. both sides would win out as more desirable for RH.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) And the last 4 years for Jackson are : 2015-2.3, 2014-0.9, 2013-3, 2012 5.4. He also played half his games at SAFECO Field recently. Jackson is the great defender that the White Sox need. I wouldn't mind Jackson and do think his trade to Seattle screwed him up, but if you look at his splits, people would argue Safeco had anything to do with it. And isn't your home park built into your WAR?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 01:21 PM) No matter what you think of the pick, this is twisted logic. Saying that the 28th pick hasn't been good rarely, so we shouldn't care about picking 28th is silly. The 2015 draft shows why the draft pool is nice. We basically got two quality draft picks in the first 10 rounds, and then had to fill it up with slot/under slot signings to fit Zangari in. Right but that was missing a 2nd and 3rd rounder. Even if they give up the pick here, they still have their normal full draft. The fact is there are overwhelming odds Fowler, 10 years from now, was a better player than the guy the team would have selected with pick #28 or what the additional draft pool would have brought. Of course it could be the other way around, but look at the bright side, their second rounder moves up a spot if they lose the comp pick.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) I'm still highly intrigued by Yadiel Hernandez. He's got a career .449 OBP over in Cuba, OBP over .500 last year. That obviously won't translate over here to that extent, but as a frame of reference, Abreu had a career .456 OBP. Abreu also took a ton of intential walks which boosted that number. Looks like he might be a solid #2 and it would allow Melky to drop to balance out the lineup. Intentional walks and HBP help Abreu tremendously. He isn't a very patient hitter so the OBP doesn't really infatuate me so much without every seeing him play. There is a difference between guys being able to take pitches 2 inches off the plate and guys not swinging because the pitch was 6 inches outside.

2.3 2.2 1.4 3.2 The last 4 seasons Fowler's WAR. The 1.4 he missed a third of the season so he still is well above a 2.0 on average.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) That is exactly why I said it would take at least a decade to see a payoff. I'd say longer than that. A pitcher, fine, but a hitter? Not only do they have to figure out how to hit against competition that would be nowhere near what they would see when they signed, they would have to learn all the other nuances of the game. How many guys who played football therefore missed on some baseball time just look totally lost on a baseball diamond? I think the cost would be prohibitive as well. There is no doubt there are people in India who if baseball was what it was here over there could be stars in the major leagues, it is beyond a long shot, and something you would spent a lot of time and money trying to find out. You might as well pour that money into baseball playing countries.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 12:36 PM) That logic is a bit broken to me. Would you rather trade that prospect package for the 28th overall pick? Shark pitched pretty awful for them last year & they didn't reach the playoffs. At some point, we as fans have to concede that they simply "lost" that trade & move on instead of trying to make up for it. People acting like that draft slot is just some sure thing confuse me. For as many Mike Trouts, there are 3-5X as many players who simply don't work out. Drafting is a calculated risk, more-so than a FA such as Fowler, IMO. A few days ago I went back to the #28 pick from present back to 2008. Now present, you can't tell but the only player selected with the #28 pick you wouldn't trade for Fowler was Gerrit Cole, but he didn't sign. You also miss out on the expanded draft pool, but having your entire #10 pick entire draft intact still makes that OK.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 12:32 PM) I don't know if it's just a pick, it's the committing to a likely-bad defensive OF with limited power. His OBP is great, but, at least with Jackson you know it's a placeholder to upgrade. With Fowler, it's committing to a pretty average OF for a long time. His power the last several seasons seems to indicate a 15 homer guy if he stays healthy. His defense isn't stellar, but it's not horrible. He gets on base, and can run. And he gets Avi off the field. It sure beats sending another top prospect or 2 away for a guy like Dickerson or Blackmon.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 12:28 PM) So, would you be okay with trading the Shark package for 3 years of Fowler at that price? Basically that has to be the mindset behind signing a QO free agent at this point. People would have been thrilled had the Sox signed Shark to a 5 year $90 million extension last offseason. Would you rather they did that or sign Fowler for something a little higher than Span received? It's an upgrade, and the 3 years cost slightly higher than 1 year of Cespedes.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 12:26 PM) Fowler would make a ton of sense for this team. If he didn't have a pick attached, I feel like most fans would be pounding the table for him right now, personally. Can probably get him on a 3 year deal at $11-13M AAV. I still don't get the must some have in holding on to this pick. Considering the outrage Shark and therefore this pick wasn't traded in July, one would be led to believe it was a worthless pick. They still would have their full draft intact. You basically would be making the trade Semien et al for 1 year of Shark and 3 years of Fowler. Sure, I'd like them to keep the pick, but it isn't a killer at all.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 12:26 PM) You mean subpar first half, right? Yes. He was pretty horrid the first half.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) Hayes tweeting about how Fowler would help a ton with the lineup. I think he would. He's a big on base guy. Supposedly he tweaked his swing last year during the second half and started hitting like he used to after a very subpar second half.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 07:30 AM) That's why you play the games. On paper, they WERE a championship contender. Many people, including this board, thought Hoiberg was the coach they needed to solve their biggest problem, offense. Hoiberg was one of the most promising coaches in college basketball, he certainly was an ideal fit for this team. Furthermore, if Rose continued his development post injury, Nikola took the next step of being rising star in this league, and Noah could come anywhere near his DPOY form only TWO years ago, yea we would be on top of the East right now. Those "ifs" all looked pretty likely at the start of the season, and the fact that they didn't happen were out of GarPax's control. And for the record, many experts picked the Bulls to finish with the best record in the East during preseason. It's certainly easy for the butthurt fans to point blame on others when hindsight is 20/20. Skipped around the video a bit, and stopped listening after 4:47, this guy couldn't even get his facts right. Rose and Noah regaining form seemed likely? Do you own a medical marijuana card? If Hoiberg was the perfect fit for this roster, A. Why do we have posts defending the Gar/Pax hire saying the roster isn't filled with Hoiberg type players, and B. Why isn't the roster performing like an elite team? Nikola has gone backwards. Makes you really wonder if Thibs was bad for him. Perhaps he was better for him than the Mayor. Everything people critize coaches and managers for, Gar/Pax is just as guilty. They have done some good things, but if the goal is the championship, they have been far too reluctant to take chances rather than play it conservately and ride the top 3 or 4 team in the East for as long as they can. This next offseason will be huge for the Bulls. Noah and Pau probably gone, and Rose a year away. The NBA is different than baseball. The money is locked in. What you can offer is hope for a title. Not many players seemingly have felt GarPax put together a roster where they were the one player from a title run.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 10:38 AM) Thats what FO seems to be banking on that from someone next year in that OF spot. But the thing that pisses me off is that when you do that 9 times out of 10 it doesnt work out for you...and those odds are probably being nice. The Sox had some success doing this in the 90s. DJ, Ellis Burks, Mike Devereaux, Danny Tartabull. Maybe they should bring back Schueler as a consultant.