Dick Allen

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:57 PM) Something weird is up, IMO. The Sox have been cold calling people (not just fans) yesterday & today asking them if they plan to attend Sox games this year. I could be wrong but that doesn't seem like a normal thing to do. MLB Network keeps bringing up the Sox name when talking about Cespedes & today, Nightengale reported in his journal thing that the Sox had been in on Upton before he signed with the Tigers. Most teams are throwing low year offers at this point. At some point soon, a team may offer 4-5 years & he'll probably take it. They have done this for years.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Well, I disagree that they have done a good job. They have won 63, 72 and 75 games in 3 years. With big upgrades at 3b and possibly at 2b, and possible downgrade at rotation, we are looking at 78-79 wins. In 2 years, when all of these contracts expire, we have to hope that all: Tim Anderson Trey M Are in the big leagues and high level producers immediately while we win a lottery ticket with : Jacob May Adam Engel Courtney Hawkins Maybe Adolfo will be a beast and be close to majors in 2 years. Otherwise you are looking at another round of gauge and plug with FA/trades on the minor league front. In four years, the core of Sale/Q/Abreu/Eaton basically falls apart. In two years you are expecting all of our minor league work to pan out. That is doubtful. The best contribution we may see is if Sale/Q/Rodon find themselves supplemented by budding superstars Adams/Fullmer/Danish for one last run. This isn't a "well what's the point of even playing the games!" point. Its just if you really valued having a winner with your current core, and you do not want to give up future competitiveness, then paying the large sum for a player like cespedes is necessary. Otherwise, you will hit a ceiling from the teams that kill us in player development. Shark led the league in runs given up and hits allowed. Johnson is going to have to be pretty bad to be a downgrade. It could happen, but Shark, despite his WAR figure, was awful last year, and a decent portion of the defense they say killed him, was his defense. He was a terrible fielding pitcher last year. One of the worst. As for all the prospects have to be good, c'mon man. There will be other players acquired. There is a total turnover of position players between now and the deadline in 2013, and the Sox minor leaguers hitters haven't raided the roster yet guys like Abreu and Eaton and Frazier are around. That can continue. A lot of money coming off next year, and if you are willing to pick up money, players in trades don't cost as much as usual. It would make things easier if some of the prospects actually became ballplayers, but it's not an absolute they have to or else.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) What isn't said in reply is how having Lawrie and Frazier walk in 2 years helps the White Sox "build a team". Through specifically the Frazier move the White sox said bluntly they have a 2 year window before a major offensive piece hits FA. They need to act like that. If they weren't prepared to act like that, then they managed to make their job of "building a team" much more difficult. Isn't one of the White Sox better prospects a 3B who should be ready in a couple of years?

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) The White Sox are trying to build a team, not build a team around Cespedes. As ive said a few times in this thread already, Cespedes and his demands were not realistic for the Sox in the first place so i never counted on the Sox signing him. Sure i hoped like a few others but never did see a fit. The Sox needed upgrades at 3B and 2B so they went out and traded for the best of what was available. You know as well as the rest of us that the 3B market had little to choose from. Should the Sox have signed Freese instead? Or signed an old veteran like Rollins for SS/2B? Should the Sox have not made those upgrades and rolled with Saladino at 3B, Alexei at SS and Sanchez at 2B? That recipe didn't work in '15 so the Sox had to make changes from what was available on the market and I think they did pretty damn good in their upgrades at 3B/2B. Too many fans are mentally looking at the trades of Lawrie and Frazier being based around the assumption that the Sox would or even could sign Cespedes, a player that has said since last September he was seeking 6/150. Bad assumption... I guess what I don't understand is the logic that another team signing a player that was a longshot from the get go to be a White Sox totally ends the White Sox pursuit of upgrades. It's really bizarre.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) and you have a point, yr 15, was not too good, maybe b/c of injury.... who knows, but he has been really good. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/linceti01.shtml Neither was 2014,2013 or 2012. Last time he was good, Ozzie was managing the White Sox, Buerhle and Paulie were still good, and Adam Dunn was historically bad.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 11:15 AM) His hair. He got a haircut.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 11:03 AM) Add Fister and Lincecum to that package and I'd be ok with it. But if the Sox got both Jackson and Pearce, what would happen to Shuck? What about Avi? What is the fascination with Lincecum? He has been horrible for 4 years in a big park in the NL, and he is coming off surgery.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 09:20 AM) The Royals have two guys averaging $18 million and $20 million now. More than a decade ago, 5 years and $55 million for Gil Meche was almost unconscionable. Who is averaging $18 million and who is averaging $20 million? Paul Splittorff, Amos Otis, Willie Wilson. Daryl Porter.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 10:27 PM) Because the prosepects weren't really good. If they traded possible impact players it would be different. The team is better than it was last year without sacrificing the future. I dont think tge sox fanbase as a group would tolerate a true re-build. I would and some would but I'm not sure the team could survive it. It is amazing how worthwhile a prospect Micah has become since he was gone

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 10:21 PM) Pick a lane? How does trading away prospects for 2 players with 2 years of control & standing pat after that make any sort of sense? You either go for it or you rebuild. You don't half ass things & come in at or under .500 each year. Why does the Tigers signing Upton end the offseason for the White Sox? We have known the White Sox weren't going to sign Upton for a while?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 10:17 PM) http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-net-value-of-draft-picks/ Another reason following up the loss of Cespedes/Upton with the signing of Fowler would be foolish... Where exactly is that Samardzija compensation pick as of today, btw? It went down one to 28.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 10:05 PM) Given a choice as owner for the White Sox starting now, who do you take? Ilitch or Reinsdorf? I think ill itch will be gone soon, and there are going to be problems in Detroit, besides no World Series wins, so under your criteria, the Tigers haven't had any exciting seasons under his ownership.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 10:02 PM) What exactly has Hahn done to deserve that type of trust? They rebuild for 1 year, go for it the next & half-ass it this year. I see no reason to have any trust for a front office who continuously fails it's fans. The two moves on their own were good but you don't trade 2/3 top 10 prospects in your system & now look at this roster & say "we can compete". I'm sorry but as far as I'm concerned, this team has no direction right now. There will be more moves made I think, unless the deadline is tonight. They have half assed it plenty of times, but I still think this year will be different.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:59 PM) You have to admire Mike Ilitch. Money doesn't matter, what he has to do doesn't matter. All that matters is winning the World Series. I give him all the credit in the world. At least he's always in all the way. Mark Yet he has never won a World Seriies, and owes Cabrera, Verlander, Martinez, Zimmernan, and Upton over $600 million.

It is funny anything from Levine is laughed at, yet when he says 3 years $55 million offer to Cespedes it is considered gospel.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:47 PM) Still would love to know what caused Tigers to go after Upton instead of Cespedes. He is younger and outside of last season, better.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:46 PM) Nothing of quality to offer up, just the usual weak attempt to deflect any criticism of the crack management team of the Sox? Well color me SHOCKED! So unlike you. Detroit has a $200 million oayroll. Jerry Reinsdorf is the worst,

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:37 PM) I don't know what Sox fans are so worried about. Tomorrow, KW will take to the podium and declare Detroit made this move in an effort to be as good as the Sox. Last time he said that, the Sox did win the division.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:30 PM) The people complaining about the Sox not signing him is a little silly. But being mad about him going to the Tigers is not. Division rivals getting better isnt a good thing. But blaming the White sox for that is silly.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:28 PM) I'd say their idiots if the 3 year thing is true. Makes zero sense considering the next 3-4 year window in MLB and with the Sox, etc. The White Sox are going to sign somebody. They have admitted it, besides, they said Alexei was still possible and he wanted to come back but he signed for $4 million. that sort of shows they will be spending some money they could have used for him.

So the White Sox are now idiots because the Tigers signed Upton?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) I guess, it just seems like a lot of assumptions that fit your narrative. It appears Saladino and Sanchez know what they are doing defensively, no they had the same coaching.

So Oakland hired Washington during the season. Why didn't they "coach" Semien before that? I still don't think he is a SS.

The problem with Uoton is if he really doesn't want to be a White Sox, then financially you are probably going to have to significantly outbid a more desired location. The other thing is, if the guy didn't want to be here but came for the money, is that really the guy you want to be paying a high percentage of your payroll? That would be up to Hahn and KW to figure if that could be overcome. There have been guys that didn't want to be somewhere, and it showed in their performance, and guys who had their minds changed. Keep in mind, when paying players $20 million or more a year, there really are very few, if any, without red flags. It is a gamble that often doesn't work out. And that isn't a White Sox problem as they have never had a $20 million a year player.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:54 AM) #whitesox free agent spending last offseason: $132 million. FA spending this offseason: $6.5 million, and still holding. https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/689111875548778497 Still same payroll as last year and supposedly had money to offer big contracts to either shark or tanaka. So where's that money at IMO it is still there, but instead of spending it to spend it, they are looking to spend it wisely. They are trying to get these guys at the best price.