iamshack

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 04:31 PM) No he said he thought sale would go to boston and would be centered around Benintendi. He said he wouldnt be surprised if the sox extended Frazier. He first messed up the frazier opinion and correctd it Ahh, I see. It would help if someone would have linked to his corrected tweet.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 1h1 hour ago An Evan Longoria trade this winter makes good economic sense for #Rays: He's coming off great season and has 6 years, $100M left on deal. Holy cow, I had no idea he was still under contract for this long.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 04:00 PM) I thought that's what I saw. He f***ed his original tweet up so that began the confusion. I'm confused...he says he would be surprised if Sale was traded to Boston in a deal centered around Bennintendi.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 09:20 AM) If we deal Sale or Q to Boston, there is literally no good reason not to include Jones to get back another player or two. I just don't like the "bundling" effect...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 08:09 AM) Look at the deadline market and how many good to top prospects it took to get even a mediocre player traded. I think the fact that we are even aware of what prospects were good and traded is evidence of the change in the way prospects are looked at today.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) If this market keeps up, prospects have never brought back less in return than the do now. It takes more and more to get even mediocre players. Really? I feel like 15-20 years ago prospects weren't worth s***. I actually feel like prospects are being valued too much by organizations in the trade market right now.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 06:53 AM) I'm curious as to which player the Sox must have of the bunch. Devers is a must and so is Kopech. Devers gives us a legit power 3B and Kopech would give us another young top arm to go with Rodon, Fulmer, Burdi and Hansen. I know we wanted Benintendi last draft. Honestly, if they are going into this as a full rebuild, they just need to get the best players they can. They can sort out the moving pieces in a few years, when we are ready to build our core again. They can always use a redundant piece to trade for something they need later.

QUOTE (beautox @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 08:01 PM) Eaton is a tough call, he will be 28 by the start of opening day next year and is under contract if you max out his options for 5 years at 38.4 Mil, if you suspect he has a similar aging curve to say Alex Gordon his surplus value is nearly identical to Q if not a tick higher when taking into account both inflation and how his offseason is a sellers market. The only way he would get traded in my eyes would be something like Giolito and Robles from Washington. It makes sense for the nats since Werth is a FA after this year and is on the decline, and turner would be better served at SS so Eaton could split time between CF and LF and then move over when Werth is a FA or push Harper to left in the near future as well. The reason you wouldn't move him or Anderson or Rodon is because they could be a part of the next contending team in 3 years and he is a face of the franchise that appeals to the blue collar base. I wonder whether Eaton would be a good person to have around if you moved all these other pieces.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 04:22 PM) Can you imagine the type of haul we would getting moving everyone but Eaton? Regardless of how good we were in that situation, at least the story would be different. Why the hell wouldn't you move Eaton too?

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) That's not as sexy of a scoop for Crasnick, unfortunately. Said one AL exec, who said he had knowledge of their thinking, "The last 327 fans of the team are really fed up with the skinny bastard."

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) Don't have time to check but did anyone post Crasnick's quote from an NL scout saying Sox Kenny Williams are is sick of Sale's antics? Goes along with everything I've heard.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) FWIW, here's our discussion in the other thread (I think it was really good back and forth by both of us) - I think that we're going to be in a substantially worse position if we wait until the deadline and my argument about why is there. Yeah, that was one of the best posts on this topic. I feel like I've heard circular arguments otherwise since last August, when many expressed it was best to wait til the offseason rather than try and force a deal at the trade deadline. Now it seems as though we're already hearing arguments for why we can wait til the trade deadline again if we want. I don't think ANYONE here is suggesting we MUST move Chris Sale and others at this point, but if the reason we're not moving him and others is because we're trying to "time the market," or we think we can make incremental improvements if we only wait a little longer, I believe that line of thinking and strategy is just wrong. It isn't just about maximizing the return on one or two players; it's about moving the entire organization in an entirely different, more productive direction than the one we've been trying for the last decade. While these first few trades are very critical to our future, this is an outstanding environment with which to make this transition. So let's do it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:46 AM) At the gate and for advertising purposes? I would think that answer would be obvious. You tell me. I know it will hurt, but I just think we've got to take our medicine. And given what is going on on the other side of town, I really don't think it will be as big of a hit as you're arguing...the fans that are still around are the true loyal fans...if they haven't left yet, I don't think a whole lot more are going to leave at this point.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:32 AM) I'm sure most season ticket holders would appreciate an actual direction, which could be a rebuild. Then again, attendance doesn't really matter anymore when it comes to team revenue. It's really just a tired Cubs fan defensive narrative. It's pointless. Well, this isn't to say it doesn't matter...they aren't dumping money into older ballparks because they aren't a revenue source...it's just that there are enough other revenue streams to sustain an organization through a rebuild if indeed there isn't much coming from the gate.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) The only risk IMO is the potential loss of season ticket holders. A lot of them may jump ship if a lengthy rebuild is on the agenda and you may never get some of them back. But that's a risk we need to take, because the half-ass going for it plans haven't done anything to keep these fans either. If the rebuild works, they will come back. And I tend to think the season ticket holders we currently have are loyal enough to stick around through a rebuild if they've been loyal to this point.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:34 AM) There is no need for the "but they'll lose all the fans" fear mongering anymore. The fans are already gone. Nor is that money really even needed in today's environment, where plenty of money comes from tv rights and revenue sharing. They can take the hit at the gate for a few years. The fans will come back when the team starts playing well again. It isn't like they are dismantling the '98 Bulls or something.

QUOTE (drowninginflame @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 10:43 PM) Hey folks, I'm thinking about a follow up article to my Sox vs. Cubs WS piece - that is, if Soxnet wants it. Anyhow, I have an idea on my mind about what the fan base wants vs. what we're perceived to want: do we want a complete teardown or should we retool? I have my own opinions, which will go into the piece, but I'd love to hear whatever you've got on your mind regarding the team of the future. Thanks! All you've got to do is look at the threads right now...that'll give you all the info you need.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 08:15 AM) The proposed deals from Boston didn't include their top talent. Moncada was not in the deal, and the rumor was that Boston didn't want to put Benietendi in it either. This is all speculation.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) They do hold all the cards. Some team is going to have to give up a package that has never been given up for an ace before right now. Besides, if these teams were so keen on Sale and Quintana "spoiling", what is their motivation to trade a ton of talent for them? No they don't, because they know it does no good for the Sox to keep them. You can play this waiting game once or twice, but eventually, you've got to move them, and the buyers know it. And while there isn't anything comparable on the FA market, there certainly are other quality pitchers that will be made available for prospect packages. We don't know who they are today, but they will be made available. As for the spoiling comment, I mean in terms of their control by the White Sox. The motivation by another team is to acquire them, win with them, and then potentially extend them. But actually WINNING SOMETHING is the motivation to trade a ton of talent for them.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 07:55 AM) If the players you get in this deal don't turn out to be huge, not only have you given up all of the developmental time you put into the players, you also wasted the asset you had, and have to start over without both talent and assets. That is the position you find yourself in, however. The luxury of forcing someone to pay an exorbitant price dissipates as you continually fail to place a competitive team on the field. Chris Sale means very little as an asset if you don't liquidate the value of the asset. Otherwise, it's just a waste. Guess what? Other teams know this. Other teams understand we've got to unload these pieces at some point or else they basically spoil. That's why this notion that the White Sox "hold all the cards" is just horses***. Yes, they'd hold all the cards if their fall back position was keeping their assets and competing. However, they've shown no ability to do so.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 07:21 PM) Wow dude. Even the most fervent of White Sox fans have accepted the reality that the Cubs are likely not one and done. I enjoyed your time away.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 06:33 PM) Ah, so you can tell me my theory is wrong. Got it now. I am not saying a rebuild can't work. I am just saying that the historic odds aren't nearly as high as they are being portrayed here. We could just as easily see it blow up in our faces, just like we have seen in Minnesota with their rebuild. They are starting over again. It seems like the odds have increased in the past 5-8 years or so. Perhaps better scouting, more info, more video, etc.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 06:06 PM) Chris Sale is the only player we have that will net top prospects. We will get solid ones for Q and everyone else will yield back trash. No. Q and Eaton would both get back top prospects.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 05:33 PM) I'd still contend that this team would need a miracle to pull of a successful rebuild on the first try with its lack of resources to carry it through the process. When you look at how many times it took teams like KC, Pittburgh, and company to do it, I don't see the excitement for rebuilding that others do. I dunno...it helps when you have the assets to move which basically allow you to ask for other teams' top prospects. It isn't like they would be going into this cold.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 04:46 PM) So I am about 98% for sure that my 2004 Impala that I drove off of the lot new back in Jan 2004 is toast. I think the transmission is shot. It won't even shift in to a gear now, and it revs the engine like it is trying to go, but it won't grab a gear. Anyways, I am doing a quick look for a replacement. There is a dealership in town that specializes in cars coming off of leases with slightly high miles. I have a lead on a 2015 Jetta SE. The guy let me take it home for the weekend Saturday morning for a test drive. It has 36k miles on it, but he is asking only 12,900 for it. That blows away the prices I have seen anywhere else like on carmax or any of the local dealerships by a couple of thousand dollars for a similar mileage/option situation. After driving it around a bit, I really like it. I had a Mailbu for a rental a couple of months ago after my Impala was sideswiped by an old man, and it was OK. The Jetta blows it away IMO. I am curious if anyone else out there has experience with the line. I know they are cheap because of the Diesel scandal, but this is an automatic gasoline engine with the 2.0L engine in it. Thoughts? They're nice cars. The 2.0L engine is a workhorse, and they are well-built cars. I've seen a few out my way for around $15k with about half those miles...So you're probably getting a pretty fair deal.