iamshack

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 11:43 PM) As Steve Stone said, the Sox don't think Thome has the type of swing/approach that would flourish playing only twice a week. After seeing some of his PH ABs with the Sox and Dodgers, I don't blame them. I can't disagree with that at all. The problem in that scenario is that they think there is only an opportunity for Jim Thome to fit into this lineup 1 day a week.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 11:32 PM) Ugh... I thought when we all heard about this months ago that it was more or less a bluff by KW. (and A.J. I was hoping you wouldn't have posted Jim's crap on here, but hey, I don't mind alittle fuel to the fire) A few guys in our lineup better have very good to career years. If Ozzie sticks to a STRICT platoon of Kotsay and Jones with LH/RH pitchers and if alot of guys hit well, it won't be THAT bad of an offense. Probably not top 10 in the league, but average to serviceable. With our pitching staff, that is good enough. Look, I really like Jones. I think he will flourish here. But come on now. This offense is nowhere near talented enough to preclude the addition of Jim Thome at $2M.

I don't doubt that Ozzie has forgotten more about baseball than I have ever learned. That being said, I really think he is going to realize that all this running and bunting and hitting and running doesn't work when guys don't get on base in the first place. If we had a bunch of high OBP guys, I could at least buy into a slight bit. But we don't!

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 10:34 PM) I thought I was explicit with why I didn't consider certain players X-factors. And I think it doesn't need to be explained why I think Quentin and Rios are. Yes, I feel like we have a pretty good idea what we'll get from Beckham, Teahen, and Pierre and it's not "just because". Do I need to tell you why I think that of Beckham? Or Pierre? And I told you what I thought of Teahen, except I left out the part that he's leaving a huge park for a smaller one, which should help his OPS. I don't think you were explicit at all. I think you basically said they are not X-Factors because you simply did not believe them to be X-Factors, which, sorry, is just not an acceptable answer. Q and Rios are certainly X-Factors. Beckham is a second year player entering his first full season. I think he has all the talent in the world, but he certainly does not have a long enough resume to be able to say with any certainty what kind of numbers he will produce. Teahan, I think is fair to argue will improve over some of his previous seasons' in KC, but again, there just is not enough consistency to expect anything other than .780 - .800 OPS at best. Pierre, I can agree with you that he will probably post something in the .730-760 OPS range? I mean all of these players have big question marks! That is the reason many are here, with the exception of Beckham, who is entering his first full season! These guys are the definition of X-Factor!

QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 10:40 PM) I guess that is where I am confused. Offensive and disrespectful to who? To all the people grappling with the decision themselves? To anyone who has gone through it in the past? To anyone who realizes the gravity of the issue and how ridiclous it is to make it seem so cut and dry, like the Tebow's are apparently doing?

QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 10:34 PM) I do get it and you realize that People Magazine and the New England Journal would have far different articles? That there is news of celebrity diets, surgeries, etc all the time which do not get pamphlets, journal articles, etc. It's a human interest piece. When celebrities talk about their new diet, they don't spend two hours discussing the health implications for diabetics, people with suppressed immunity, etc. I believe since this is such an important topic, that potentially has fatal implication, people will be guided more by their Doctors and family than some QB's mom. In fact, I'm surprised you are thinking this will have such a huge impact. If that were truly the case, smoking and drugs would be gone from society with all the celebrity anti-drug and anti-smoking campaigns. If they don't listen to a celbrity say stop this or you will die,why will they listen to her? I just find it incredibly offensive and disrespectful. I don't think it will have a big impact at all.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 09:25 PM) Its one spot that can be fixed cheaply right now. Why wait for the failure? Andruw Jones is a bum. Mark Kotsay is no good either. If Quentin and Rios get back to where they were great, but why, if you can make your team better and can easily afford it do you pass? And why as fans of the team should anyone accept the BS? Why just try to be a little better than the teams in your division? Why not try to be the best you can possibly be? If KW and JR left this entirely up to Ozzie and still think he is wrong, and didn't use their authority, shame on them. I'm hoping they have another move because if they are seriously going with the current plan, its going to work out as well as Erstad and Alomar and Colon part II (although I endorsed that one) and Griffey and Wise as a leadoff man every day CF. Its dumb. Whoa! We agree again!

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 09:18 PM) Probably because Quentin and Rios two guys, not one, and they didn't contribute anything like what they should have last year. There is expected production from those two guys that the Sox didn't get in 2009. I don't consider there to be 5 X-factors because I think there is every reason to think Teahen will have a decent year now that he should have some comfort and won't be getting jerked around (some guys respond to that comfort, by the way) and that Pierre will continue be what he's been. I don't consider Ramirez or Beckham to be X-factors either. Nor AJ. The only real doubts I have are with Quentin and Rios who would've been expected to bring in the production from the middle of the order along with PK. Those are your big boys right there. This is nothing new. This has been the case since December. Seriously? You don't consider them to be X-Factors because why? Because you just don't? Yet you are going to raise doubts about the guy with the career .961 OPS over 19 seasons? I understand he is declining, but his walk rate has held steady and is SLG will still be in the .450 range if that continues to decline as it has. So you're going to trust Rios/Beckham/Quentin/Teahan/Pierre but we don't really have a need for the guy who will most likely put up the .825-.850 OPS?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 09:15 PM) Win. He is the best manager in winning games the Sox have had since Al Lopez. His winning percentage is within a few points of the great Tony LaRussa and higher than guys like Tommy Lasorda. Say what you want about Ozzie's crazyness, he does do alot of crazy things during the season and during the off-season but he wins more than anyone we've had in a long time. Unless you would rather go back to Terry Bevington, Jeff Torborg, Don Kessinger, Jim Fregosi Jerry Manuel or even tony LaRussa. I kow I'm missing afew but I'm too lazy to look them up for managers since the late 70's. Ozzie's teams have been to the playoffs more times than all of the others combined or at least close to it. He's also been in the perfect storm in terms of division competitiveness since he's been here. I'd like to see how he would have matched up against those Indians teams of the mid and late 90's.

Tex, obviously none of us have seen the commercial. But do you not see the implication here? By stating that her doctor advised her not to take her pregnancy to term, and that she did anyways, and she had the child who grew up to be Tim Tebow....I mean, you don't get what they are saying there?

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 08:48 PM) Yes, the Twins have capable starters, but I wouldn't say they're nearly as good as the front 4 the Sox will send out there. The Sox should also have a good bullpen, especially combined with a really strong rotation. They have the two most talented players in the division in Morneau and Mauer, but the Sox have some pretty good talent too. As I have said 1000 times, I have concerns about the DH. But when people bring up Kotsay/Jones/Vizquel/Nix, it's almost as if they're thinking all four of those guys will be in the lineup together at the same time. This is one spot out of 9 we're talking about. And while I share the same concerns on that one spot in the lineup, I think we're drastically overstating the impact it's going to have. They would probably be better with a sure bat in that spot, but it is not going to mean everything. I will say this now, and you can tell me I'm wrong if it doesn't work out, but I think this lineup will do a much better job than people realize. And I say that because I think Quentin and Rios get back to where they need to be. This offense will live and die by what those two contribute. I believe that when we look back on the season in September, if it is an offensive failure (or success), it will be mainly because of those two guys or because of what Konerko does or doesn't do. It won't be because of who the DH isn't. If I'm wrong about that, I'll wear it. Ok, so it's fair to say that the offense will go the way of Quentin and Rios, but also ok to argue that what we get out of the DH position won't make or break anything for us? I agree Quentin and Rios are huge X-Factors for us, but we have like 5 X-Factors. So why the hell do you bypass a chance to put a near-certain productive middle of the order bat in your lineup? Even citing a decline due to his age, he still projects to be better than at least 6 or 7 of the other hitters in this lineup.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 09:42 PM) There are multiple arguments happening here. Without seeing the ad, I can't really respond. I agree the total message cannot be shared in thirty seconds. I truly doubt they will try. But how many commercials, Public Service Anbnouncements, etc. can be adequately, responsibly, and respectfully shared? The vast majority of them. I'm not sure you could produce a more complex issue than the one the Tebow's are attempting to share with us in 30 seconds.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 08:11 PM) 'Whoever wants to come to the White Sox as long as I'm here, he's not going to be a full-time DH,'' Guillen said. ''Nobody. I don't care who it is.'' Maybe we should petition to move to the NL, because this type of plan isn't going to work well for the long term in the AL. Kenny needs to muzzle his ass.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 08:02 PM) Am I now allowed to say that this offseason has sucked, as I'm not impressed at all with the job KW and Ozzie have done? And I'm usually pretty optimistic in the offseason, but it's ridiculous how bad our lineup is on paper. I didn't realize you were holding back before.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 08:01 PM) no, i know were not getting him lol hes my fave. player(played for mexico in the wbc, awesome). i just dont think we should overreact. lets see how things unfold. We may indeed get him still. But my point is it's highly doubtful that the decision to acquire a huge bat like Gonzalez would have anything to do with signing Thome for $2m, other than the fact that we may be forced to overpay for such a bat because we didn't sign Thome when we had the chance. And see how things unfold? We've been watching nothing unfold in this regard for a month. Well, it just unfolded. And we're going to play Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel at DH some games. Sorry, I am Ozzie and KW's biggest fan, but unless we are the Pittsburgh Pirates, that is unacceptable.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 08:50 PM) no, i want the sox to win. and ur talking about the same people that were crying all yr how they hated thome and pods. hey, atleast my opinions arent all over. make up ur mind. fine, the season is over bcuz thome isnt coming back. i dont want him bcuz i feel theres still a chance they can get someone better. If you're holding out for the guy in your avatar, I really doubt that whether or not to acquire Jim Thome for $2m really had a large effect on that decision. As for other options, if Thome isn't a fit, none of the other slugging lefthanders are going to be a fit for Ozzie. At least not until he figures out halfway into the regular season that we need a middle of the order bat. And again, any player acquired at that point is most likely going ot cost us more than Thome would have now, or would have still been acquired even if Thome had been signed now. Secondly, there is simply no way that one could reasonably argue that adding Thome to a DH platoon would not improve that platoon. The numbers simply are not there. And I am a really big Andruw Jones fan. I hope for our sake that this somehow works, but on its face, this is f***ing stupid.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 08:20 PM) no. but i know he walked quite a bit, hit hrs, etc. but didnt u get a tad bit tired of watching thome strikeout, esp against lefties late in a game, hit right into the shift, need 3 hits to score,etc? yes i realize hes probly better than what we have, but i just really want to move on Honestly Melissa, as well as others who share this opinion, and no disrespect intended, but how could you be so incredibly selfish that you would rather the team be worse, and win less games, because you don't want to get personally frustrated as much by watching a certain player? What a crap attitude, and honestly, I am really f***ing tired of seeing it.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 06:38 PM) iamshack, that is your objection, but there are others here objecting simply to the message, others to who is helping with the message, etc. I understand I am sort of dialing in on a more specific objection than some others, but I have not really seen too many object to the idea of presenting the message in a respectful and adequate manner. Who among us posting in this thread would object to the idea of this issue being presented in a documentary, or in book or pamphlet of some type, where it could be fully explained and discussed in a respectful manner? I would have no issue even with the Tebow's story being a part of that. I think I do agree with Tex in that there is some value in them sharing their story, since people know who they are and have some level of trust in them as reasonable and caring people.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) There really is no use repeating myself, because I thought it was pretty clear. If the lineup as a whole does its job, it is irrelevant if the Sox' DH is weaker than everyone else's. Let me make this even clearer for those that may think I wouldn't like a better hitter there: I would. For the sake of piece-of-mind alone, I would find it more comforting if they had a better option right now. However, I just don't believe that one spot will end up making the difference. It will probably be inconsequential in comparison to the trio I mentioned in my previous post. Don't you agree though that by signing as many productive bats as possible, you solidify the offense? We very well may not see the difference between a playoff birth, or an ALCS, or even a World Series birth come down to whether or not we acquire a productive DH bat. I'll concede that. However, how many times do you view a baseball team one way going into the season, only to have that team establish an entirely different identity as the season progresses and ultimately comes to a conclusion? If you go back and look at expert predictions prior to each season, I think for the vast majority of seasons, you'd laugh at the level of accuracy involved. With that in mind, solidifying the offense as much as possible, so that there are as many productive bats available when unexpected events occur, is probably the best possible course of action to take, especially when you're talking about the small financial commitment involved in this case. There is absolutely no way to accurately predict what will happen with the MANY variables this team currently is committed to, including Mark Teahan, Carlos Quentin, Alex Rios, Juan Pierre, etc. The number of possible outcomes is beyond any reasonable number of contingencies one can plan for. Therefore, in my mind, the goal has to be to assemble an offense with the highest number of productive pieces, so that you can mix and match them into a productive unit based on any number of contingencies. What good does it do to assume, prior to the season beginning, whether or not success will boil down to one acquisition? When we can scarcely predict the success of the team as a whole, how can we possibly predict that such success will be caused by certain parts of that whole? In reality, it truly is anyone's guess, is it not?

Knocked out Back & Chest today. This is my second week on the program and my second time with Back & Chest. Did far better today than the first time. Can already tell that I am developing strength in muscles that was not there the first go around with this workout. Still have a long way to go with some of the more difficult pushup exercises though, such as military and diamond style pushups. Those dive bombers are tough to do correctly as well. Rock, how is it going for you?

QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 05:47 PM) A mother risking her life to save her child. It's going to happen. People risk their lives to save total strangers. I doubt a Doctor would recommend risking your life to save another. But it happens, and will continue to happen. Sometimes it will work out, other times it will not. We can try and hide the stories of when it works out, perhaps call those women idiots. But tomorrow, another mother will risk her life to save her baby. Some will view it as honorable, even noble. Others will call her an idiot for risking her life. Tell her she should have played it safe and not risk her life. And tomorrow another mother will risk her life to save her baby. It's just what some mothers do. Who or what inspired Ms. Tebow? Perhaps nothing, it may just be what some mothers do. Will she do it because of the Tebow story? I really doubt it. There is a much stronger human emotion in some people to save their baby. To me the story is she risked her life to save her baby. Perhaps that is too dangerous a story to have told. Perhaps people will die if they hear her story. But I doubt it. There are movies, books, newspaper articles, tv shows, all with the theme of a mother risking everything to save her baby. But we get all worked up because it is a :30 second commercial during the Super Bowl. I am certain everyone here would not want their own mother to risk her life to save them, but some mother's will. Not because of Tebow's story. But because that is what some mother's do. When will you grasp that what we are arguing is NOT that this message should not be shared, but that it should NOT be shared in a 30-second commercial where it cannot be adequately, responsibly, and respectfully shared. You seem to be completely missing the point here.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 04:02 PM) I actually think it's entirely possible for the DH to win or lose the division. In 2008, if the White Sox had Mark Kotsay DHing instead of Jim Thome, does that team win the division? (and I'm not even talking about game 163 here either. I'm simply talking about whether they'd be in that position in the first place) I think Thome can add as many as 2-3 wins to the team just by himself. That can win or lose a division very easily. I also think you get yourself in trouble when you start talking about "this one position isn't going to make or break us." At some point, something ultimately does make or break you, and I have to admit, adding a competent DH could be the difference between having an above-average offense or an average to below-average offense. And just so Mr. Rongey doesn't misinterpret me here, I do agree with him regarding the lineup needing to step-up as a whole, but should not everything go as we hope, I think a lot of things could fall on that middle of the order again, and acquiring Thome goes a long way towards solidifying it.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 03:50 PM) I don't think that this suddenly means Ozzie will be on Jerry's hotseat because he still has plenty of equity built up with the owner. Ozzie will be more heavily scrutinized by the fans and media for sure, but I doubt he will be in any greater danger of losing his job if things go poorly this year. I think it's more of a way for JR and KW to communicate to the fans that they aren't exactly "on-board" with the notion of bypassing Jim Thome for the "rotating wheel of crap." This allows them to put the focus on Ozzie, and he seems to be enjoying that quite a bit. That being said, I agree with you about Ozzie's status with the Club. I think it would take several poor seasons in a row for him to be ousted.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 03:43 PM) Then why do you have the GM and coach position separate? Trust me Balta, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm just trying to interpret their statements and actions. My guess is they would tell you that the GM and manager work on the vision for the team together. The GM then acquires the best players for that vision, while the manager manages them.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 25, 2010 -> 04:45 PM) I completely disagree about this not having some affect. It's a real life example that is going to resonate with some people to act different, and reenforce beliefs in others. If it was so clear that their story would fall on deaf ears, I highly doubt Focus on the Family would waste the money. Hah! That's like saying dot coms would never spend 30% of their investment capital to run a commercial during Super Bowl XXXIV