iamshack

QUOTE (G&T @ Sep 13, 2009 -> 08:29 AM) I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but it was interesting: On B&B last week, Boers said that "his guy" with the Sox (who is rarely wrong about anything, BTW) told him that JR is pretty pissed off about how poorly the Sox have played after being told that Rios and Peavy would be enough to make the playoffs. That's what prompted the attempted sell off on Aug. 31 and the "blame me" stuff from Ozzie. I think there is a lot riding on a playoff spot for this team. Well who wouldn't be? We are all pissed off about how poorly they have played. That being said, I doubt JR is stupid enough to believe that simply because we got these two players that we were guaranteed anything. It certainly was a calculated risk that hasn't paid off thus far. However, to me, the blame shouldn't land on the guys we acquired, but on the guys we already had. Additionally, my guess is they were hoping a playoff appearance would offset the expense incurred this season by adding Peavy and Rios to the payroll. Unfortunately it hasn't worked out so far, and as a result, we may have to cut a bit more out of the payroll next season (for the first half, anyways), but this is how this franchise operates.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Sep 13, 2009 -> 08:08 AM) Without getting into all the financials, the Peavy and Rios pick ups were made with Kenny looking ahead into the free agent markets of 2010 and 2011. Few guys have the upside of Peavy and Rios, and few would be able to be signed at the "discounted" prices of those two. With the sox contracts coming off the books after 2009 [dye, thome, Jose, Dotel] and 2010 [pk], and the salaries they shed in Javy and Swisher after 2008, the sox had the flexibility to make these moves. Esp. as the sox have younger, inexpensive players filling other spots. The rotation is set. The Rios acquisition is more of a gamble, but a way to imporve the defense and offnes with one player. IMO, Rios will get back to being the asset he once was on offense. Right, but what DA is saying is why didn't the organization spend the money that was available for the 2009 season that was obviously available all year? Instead, the evil money-hoarding bastards pretended as though they had no money. They lied to us again, damn them to hell. As if the White Sox have a checking account, and that account had $8 million sitting in it all year long, just waiting to be used up on an impact player. But they lied and said they had nothing. Obviously they had something, because they went and got Peavy and Rios and have somehow managed to pay their salaries! Damn them, those lying assholes. Who do they think they are going out and getting two players like that?!?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2009 -> 06:31 AM) Actually you are wrong. This is the first year I've ever criticized the White Sox about their payroll, and their ticket prices, its the 20th year I've had season tickets. I have criticized his quote before, because its ridiculous he continues to use it. As I stated in a post several months ago, JR should make it a team policy to never mention finances publicly. It really chapped my ass they raised ticket prices after all season ticketholders were committed and then lowered payroll. I felt,and I'm sure other season ticketholders felt, cheated on. They obviously had money in hand, and spent it on 2 guys. They are paying about $2 million for Rios this year and $4 million for Peavy after KW didn't have any money. He was "encouraged" by the 10,000 or so fans that bought $9 tickets, so he spent some money he claimed he didn't have. We've heard for years and years that every dime that comes in, goes back into the team. I always assumed it was probably very close to the truth, but the reality is JR's policy accourding to Brooks Boyer is he doesn't care if he makes any money, he is opposed to losing any money, and that's fine. He has been quoted before as saying he would bust the budget for a player(s) who can pretty much guarantee winning a championship. Spending $6 million alone for 2 months of Rios and Peavy (and I am on record as saying Peavy is KW greatest move) considering Rios is a waiver claim and there was no guarantee Peavy would pitch at all for the Sox this season, indicates these are players that are far from the types who when added, would guarantee a championship. If you really think the White Sox aren't budgeting for future years when picking up both of these contracts, basically calling me simple is pretty ironic. If the White Sox didn't have a bunch of money coming off the books, there is no way they pick both of these guys up. DA, what point are you trying to make? You're saying the same bs as usual. What the f*** do you want, a copy of the team's financials so you can account for every penny they spend? Your view of the financials is incredibly oversimplistic, as if the organization has a checking account where all credits and debits merely come in and go out, and that is the only source of funding available. Come on, man. Your own personal money situation is more complex than that. Why can't you recognize the fact that the organization's financial situation is fluid? They are able to move money around to adjust on the fly if impact players suddenly become available unexpectedly. Again, do you want to hold that against them?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 08:32 PM) Have none of you learned anything about this team yet? Just when they give you hope, they start sucking. What happens after Mark Buehrle throws perfect game? We go 1-5 on an awful road trip. What happens after we win a big series against KC with a matchup of Greinke vs. Contreras? We lose a series to the Orioles and win 2 of our next 10. This team will give you hope and suck it away. It's been doing that all year. Would I like to see it not do that? Of course. It's not about who's right or wrong, it's about this team being absolute crap when it matters most. That's why I don't see it winning this division. BTW, Kazmir has been much better since joining the Angels. He's not the same guy we faced earlier on in the year with the Rays. Knowing this team, Ian Snell might cause some trouble. Everything you wrote is absolutely spot-on accurate. That being said, stay the f*** out of our voodoo thread! As for Kazmir, he has been reunited with his former pitching coach, Mike Butcher, which may explain the recent renaissance.

This is good too: "And when this team doesn't score, this team looks very, very, very bad. Very slow, no energy, but it's not because we don't have that, it's because we're not hitting. When we hit it's like, 'Oh, OK here we go.' '' http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/09/oz_being_oz.html So they know it too, guys and gals. It's certainly not just us who gets frustrated by it.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 11:08 PM) http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/09/oz_being_oz.html Guillen on Alex Rios - "What have I seen from Rios? A lot of outs. The only batting ninth guy making $5 million was me. This mother [bleeper] is making $10, $12, $14 million, he ain't going to be batting ninth [in 2010]. I'm going to make sure he earns his money. But right now I have to put him there because he's struggling. Next year, if we have Rios batting ninth we're in deep [crap] once again.'' So, perhaps Rios will work harder to fix that swing now? I really like that he did this. Someone certainly needed to. Maybe that will be enough to shake him out of it a little.

Don't miss out on this gem: Guillen on his hitters failing to beat pitchers they have seen for the first time - "I mean you're not going to take anything away from the pitching staffs that we've faced, but we've been facing some pitchers this year it's like, 'Who the [expletive] is this guy? They don't even belong in the [bleeping] big leagues and they just kicked our ass.' I'm not going to lie to anybody. I know who beat us and I know who should beat us. We've faced some guys where they've called him up, faced us, and get him back to [bleeping] Double A, get the [bleep] out of here. That's how bad we've been." http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/09/oz_being_oz.html Awesome stuff, Oz.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 10:47 PM) Very simple. KW needs to quit saying it. He mentions it almost every season, and said it again a few times this year. Once he stops, I stop. I'm just pointing out what he's saying. Aren't you the least bit puzzled that KW had no money but suddenly found an extra $60 million +, that's more than he's given any other player, except for maybe Konerko, for Alex Rios? Then he calls the team underachievers. Why exactly was Alex Rios available for no players? Could it have been he's an underachiever? If he mentions it next year, considering the amount he spent on a decent but not outstanding player, I may set a record reminding people of the White Sox financial situation. No, I'm not puzzled. It's one thing to sign players prior to the season starting. It's another to add players for 2 months based on your chances to compete for the division. I hate to admit it, Dick. But you're the precise type of fan that causes him to say the things he says. You immediately suspect that the organization is lying about their finances. You assume that they have a secret gold mine underneath US Cellular where they can call upon unlimited funds whenever they are needed. Don't you realize that the organization is basing its ability to pay the salaries of these guys purely on speculation? Don't you realize that KW and Jerry understand that if they stay away from bad contracts they will be able to remain flexible in the future. Meaning they can always trade out of some of these contracts if need be. But to say that they have this money in hand, or somehow budgeted for future seasons is not true. They are simply assuming the contracts won't be albatrosses, and that they will make them fit into the future payroll somehow. Unfortunately, KW has to deal with the likes of Jay Hineybird and every know-it-all fan who expects the White Sox to sign or trade for every high-priced player that becomes available, every year, over and over and over. To sit there and to try and explain to people like that is impossible. Which is why he has to be incredibly simple. You can't spend a dollar if you only have 50 cents. Get it? We aren't signing him. Next.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 10:41 PM) Just think if we'd continued our .500 ways on that road trip from hell. I'd be excited if we were 2 out in loss column. We're still in the miracle stages, folks. We're way behind in the loss column. It'd be one of the biggest chokes in baseball history if Detroit folded. We need to win this series. We haven't even won a series in a while. The same thing basically happened last year, Greg. Not saying the odds are good, but it's not quite as uncommon as you believe.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 10:56 PM) I agree, but haven't we refused to sign some outfielders in the past because they wanted too much money? Why did we have to have Rios?? I've said over and over I'll give him a chance again next spring. There are players I defend a lot, players who get ripped by others. I happen to blast Rios and Pena. Why not get on those who blast some of the other guys. Greg, it's not so much about blasting Rios is the fact that every chance you get you place the entire blame of the White Sox being 5 games back on his shoulders. You remind me of a spoiled child sometime, with your statements such as the following: "You'll never convince me Rios and Peavy were not also for THIS YEAR. We were in the race when we got Rios and EVERYBODY was excited that he'd be something we really needed. And with Peavy if we could make the playoffs, squeak in, our rotation would all be set up. Why would it only be for next year if we were right in the thick of the Central race and would have as good a chance as anybody in the playoffs to win it now?? It was for this year as well. Go back and read all the stories and all the fan comments. People were juiced for now. Our rotation would be unstoppable in a short series." "How bout this one: He makes a helluva lot of money and has security and no real motivation to excel. The not playing every day is a pretty lame excuse for a guy brought in to help us win a (s***ty) division. He contributed nothing, zip. I will say he does look good in a uniform and I am hoping for the best next spring when he obtains a new clean slate in my mind (until he proves he can or cannot cut it on the south side). This year however he has to be considered one of the team's biggest disappointments/flops." "I'm very mad Alex Rios has had a terrible year offensively, because he has had prime moments where he could have lifted us to victory and maybe kept us in the race. He has done absolutely nothing at the plate. Some 40/40 guys (yes that's what he has been billed up to be in the majors) can carry a team. He could really have lifted us on that road trip and in those 6 games vs. KC and the O's but simply sucked. He got here in time to help us THIS YEAR and has failed miserably. Hopefully he'll get his s*** together for next season. "Now comes the part where somebody makes an excuse for him ...he hasn't played every single game or something like that. Well, we have four outfielders worthy of playing and he was given ample at bats to provide a spark. Yes Dye has also sucked and Pods has failed us on the basepaths, but Rios?? Yuk so far." Well we can judge him on how he's helped the team in a pennant race which is what acquisitions are meant to do. He's not helped at all. So he deserves some heat." "Why are people so sensitive getting mad at those of us who think Rios is a dog? This team acquired him to help now and he's failed miserably. Same with Pena. He hasn't helped a lick." "Great post. The reason I currently dislike Rios big time is he failed miserably to do what the Sox brought him in to do this year. Help us win the average Central Divsion. Has he had one big hit yet? Why acquire him and pay him the big bucks when in past offseasons we've cried poor and not signed cfs way better than No hit Rios?" "Fair point. When next season starts, I'm sure I'll shut up about Rios and give him until late May to prove he can or cannot be better than Swisher. The reason I currently am down on Rios is I expected to win the s***ty Central this season and I bought into the argument Rios and Peavy would be the keys and might even propel us to the WS. The common perception was if we could keep it close and win the Central even (we were 2 out just a couple weeks ago) our rotation would be murder in the playoffs and we could rely more on just Thornton and Carrasco and not those other bullpen hacks. we were a team allegedly set up to make a strong postseason run with that Peavy and Mark-led rotation and a real center fielder finally. Rios provided no spark, so as a fan yes I am overblaming him. I also was down on Beckham when he got off to the lousy start, but I for the most part shut up, waiting since he's so young. He's rebounded nicely. Rios ... I expected him to be the missing key and indeed there were several games that we were in, where he made KEY OUTS where I happened to be watching." s***, Greg even replies to other people who rip on Rios: QUOTE The fact that he would spend 11 mil or whatever for Rios and not pony up for a guy like Hudson to have the entire year both confuses and infuriates me. "Excellent post; I feel this is the post of the thread." So Greg. These are just posts I have pulled in the last two weeks. We get it. You are disappointed in Rios since his acquisition. Enough. Please. For the sake of all of us.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 09:12 PM) We'll probably end up losing most of those anyways. Take your pessimistic ass the f*** out of this thread. 5 back. Let's get it to 3 by the last 9. Very doable. Mark vs Kazmir tomorrow, while the Jays have Romero against Porcello in a rookie showdown. Die Kitties!

Oh and one other thing... Greg...guess what? Baseball is a game of chance. Just because KW went and got Rios and we all thought he would help us win this season, it has not worked out that way. Rios has sucked. He has not helped us win very much at all. But no one ever promised you anything when we acquired Rios. KW never came out and said "I guarantee all White Sox fans this team will now make the playoffs." So live with it! It didn't work out. Accept it. Move on. Start leaving your house again.

I find this thread to be incredibly frustrating. First of all, we ALL know Rios has been absolutely horrific offensively for us. If I had a goldfish, my goldfish would know that. So for all the people here pointing it out, you might as well be pointing out ad nauseum that men have penises and women have vaginas. Tell us something we don't know. Secondly, DA, this FREAKING OBSESSION you have with the $1/.50 line is incredibly ridiculous. It's like nails on the chalkboard at this point. Honestly, and I say this with all due respect, WHAT THE HELL DO THE WHITE SOX HAVE TO DO TO MAKE YOU STOP BRINGING THAT UP? I ask you that question almost every time you mention this nonsense, and you never answer. So before you bring it up in 2 weeks again in another thread, what do they have to do? Thirdly, this BS about the team chemistry. You know what? If JD is such a soft little b**** that acquiring a player for the future hurts his feelings and ruins his season, then good riddance, Jermaine, because I don't want to see your ass on this team next year. And as long as we are on the point of chemistry, this team has none. It had none before Rios got here. It had none last year, none the year before, and none the year before. It had none in 2004 and 2003 and 2002 and 2001. The only seasons I can ever remember any freaking character out of this club was in 2000 and in 2005. And 2005 was 4 years ago, folks. So I think that chemistry was gone a long time ago. Finally, regarding the actual effect of Rios's play on our team, unless he came here and hit like Albert F'ing Pujuols, we wouldn't be in much different position than we are now. This team has consistently played like suck on offense, defense, on the basepaths, and out of the bullpen. Alex Rios really can only do so much, whether it be good or bad.

Say hello to your second place Chicago White Sox! Let's go Toronto!

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 06:24 PM) Well thats been my whole problem. I'm worried about not having money to address what we need to address. Your problem has been taking shots at Rios every day since his first game with us against Seattle. Not that they are undeserved, because he has been awful. It just gets tiresome that you mention it EVERY chance you can get. Guess what? No matter how worried you are about what paying Rios means for the rest of the team, taking a shot at him every chance you get will not magically make his salary decrease or increase our payroll.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Sep 12, 2009 -> 06:21 PM) Better than paying Rios 10. You just had to get that in there, didn't you? Did Rios steal your girlfriend or something?

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 05:59 PM) I know it's not that simple. It isn't. However, Williams and his front office get paid a lot of money to make these tough decisions. I have a lot of faith in the Baseball Opps Department. As Kalapse said, Sox fans have a right to expect a little bit more than Scott Podsednik in 2010. Well, I will respectfully disagree. I gave up expecting more when FO brought us Jake Peavy and Alex Rios.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) By all indications the Sox want to compete this year, next year, and the year after. I think we can agree on that. By my count, 12 of the 14 AL teams have better options(realistic options) at the lead-off spot than the Sox. That needs to change. It's the job of the front office to fix it. Tony, I hate to keep going around in circles here, but as a team that does not play in Yankee Stadium, Fenway Park, Wrigley Field, CitiField, or Chavez Ravine, we only have limited resources. We have to pick and choose our battles. I agree with you that we should have expended more resources on the leadoff positon in the batting order. That does not, however, mean that we should expend any and all resources available to procure this player. Given the premium apparently placed on the positon by other organizations, the market appears to be inflated and therefore, it may be (and apparently is, by KW's decision) prudent to utilize our limited resources on other fronts. To simply ignore this reality and say it is unacceptable seems overly simplistic to me.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 04:56 PM) I rarely make those kinds of posts. Again, they serve no purpose. How many people would have said it would take Brandon Allen to acquire Tony Pena? What about Gio, Sweeney and De Los? Two days before that trade, if you were to purpose that on Soxtalk. you would have been laughed off the board. Better yet, in 2004, with the Sox looking for a lead-off hitter, who would have thought it would have taken Carlos Lee to acquire Podsednik? I have seen enough trades to know we have no idea the true value of players and what goes on in trade rooms. And yet you are somehow qualified to make the judgment that it is "unacceptable for the White Sox to have a guy like Podsednik as their leadoff hitter. I'm sorry, but the two positions just don't jive to me.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 03:44 PM) No one on this board knows that. You're asking what tonights lottery numbers are going to be. I just don't have that information. If I did, I wouldn't be posting here. You know what I mean. You're smart enough that you can make informed speculation and guess within reason what it would take to get a guy....

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 02:42 PM) Figgins, Bourn, Felipe Lopez, and DeJesus could all be acquired and be considered upgrades from Podsednik. Guys like Nyjer Morgan and Rajai Davis could even be considered upgrades. It's one thing to name off a list of guys. I want to know what we are going to give up or what we are going to have to pay to get them. Felipe Lopez has a career .329 OBP. What an upgrade. Nyjer Morgan has had an serious second half. You think the Nationals are going to trade him now? Rajai Davis is having a great second half as well. He is a soon to be 29 year old that posted a .272 OBP last year. Are you sure he's better? Michael Bourne? He doesn't strike me as anyone that is available unless you want to really pay up. I just don't think it is as easy as you'd like us to believe. I also don't think many of the players you name are even upgrades. Maybe a case of the grass is always greener, but not necessarily an improvement.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Sep 11, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) I post on a message board. It's the job of the front office to know that answer. Weak. If you're going to take the position you have, that our situation is "unacceptable," you should at least speculate/propose who may be available and for what. Then maybe you will appreciate how difficult the situation is...

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 11:19 PM) He will probably be noticeably worse because his numbers are way above career average and he will be another year older... Why would he repeat almost career best numbers when he is 33? I don't care about stolen bases. He has gotten picked off so many times. He has stolen 27 bases but got caught stealing 10 times. Getting caught stealing hurts a lot more than getting a stolen base helps. He has hurt the team more than he has helped it with his base running. Winn is tons better defensively. He will save a lot of runs in left field or right field. That will be helpful especially with the pitching staff we will have next year. I bet he will have similar numbers to Podsednik next year too. The one thing about Podsednik is that he seems to be hitting the fastball better than I ever remember him hitting it in 05'. I don't know if that is a mechanical adjustment or what, but he is definitely spraying balls all over the field more so than I can recall him doing in his tenure with us. Maybe he won't hit .300 for us next year, but he certainly seems like an improved hitter, so I wouldn't be surprised to see another season above his career norms.

Anyone hear if Gordo is going to be back tonight?

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 07:24 PM) I can't imagine it being much higher than pods. He is having a down year, so we can probably get him cheaply too. Hopefully he isn't physically decline. Judging by his UZR, his defensive numbers are still good. Hopefully that is evidence that he isn't losing his speed. He would be a nice asset. His OBP is usually around .350 too. Yeah, he is consistently underrated. He made $8.25 million this year in the last year of a 3 year deal with the Giants. He's 35 this year though and posting a .314 OBP and a .667 OPS. I would pass unless he signed a 1 year deal in the $1-2 million range.