iamshack

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 18, 2009 -> 08:52 AM) A possible problem with Bradley and the Sox might be that there aren't other African Americans on the Sox 25 man. Dye and Wise will be gone and Bradley might have a tougher time being comfortable in the clubhouse. Rios?

I honestly believe Bradley would work very well on our team. We would probably be the most hated team in baseball, but I think he would fit in well with us. I don't believe our fans would get on him as the Cubs fans did. I think they would appreciate his skills and live with his eccentric nature. Between Ozzie and AJ, I think he would find some personalities he would mesh well with. Does that mean I want him on our ballclub? Not really. But I do think the south side of Chicago would be one of the better fits for him as a player.

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 17, 2009 -> 07:06 PM) The name "Camelback Ranch" just sounds strange. They should change it. I suggest they change it to "The Chicken Ranch," or perhaps even "The Bunny Ranch." I'll bet we would have all sorts of players showing up early for Spring Training were that to be the case...

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 18, 2009 -> 07:57 AM) I would say him charging that pressbox was a major issue Jeesh, you're a real stickler for the rules, aren't you?

Yeah, even in perfect weather conditions that would have been impossible to turn two there. Add the facts that it was wet and a misplay loses you a must-win playoff game, and there is absolutely no excuse for that decision. Horrendous. Especially considering the fact that the Angels' advantage grew every inning longer the game went, because of the precarious position the Yankee bullpen was in.

QUOTE (scenario @ Oct 17, 2009 -> 04:07 PM) Currently a balmy 101 degrees in Phoenix. LOL. Sounds pretty good to me right now after a week of wet 40 degree weather in northern Illinois. Be careful what you wish for...when it's sunny and warm every day you find yourself wishing for some variation...I am actually watching the football games in the midwest longing for Fall weather...

QUOTE (scenario @ Oct 17, 2009 -> 02:47 PM) I find it interesting that the D-Backs have Brandon Allen playing in the AFL. Maybe he is hoping Kenny spots him and trades for him...

Mark's deal probably is below-market value for a pitcher of his durability and track record. What is happening is we have the good fortune of having Floyd and Danks, which is making what we pay Mark look like a bit much when you compare his performance against the other two. The emergence of Hudson is also beginnng to make it appear as though we have a cheap in-house replacement for Mark. The addition of Peavy and Rios have also made what appeared to be a year where we would have a lot of financial flexibility be one where we no longer do. Therefore, people are looking for ways to improve the ballclub by trading away our most expendable assets and Mark's salary is making him a target. In the grand scheme of things, however, Mark is probably one of the more integral parts of the whole if indeed we are to be successful. The bottom line is we do have a very strong core, one that I would argue will be one of the stronger and more complete cores coming into the offseason. If we can find some basic pieces to get us rolling in the first half of the season, I think we'll be in good shape to add the pieces necessary before the trade deadline.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2009 -> 11:34 AM) With all due respect, is he stupid? Did he learn nothing from spending all of last winter unemployed? No one is giving him more than that. I think he'll get a higher offer just from the Angels. My guess is he wants 2/$20 or 3/$30.

QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Oct 15, 2009 -> 07:23 PM) Brett Gardner? I would hope we aim higher than Brett Gardner if Hudson is in the discussion...

QUOTE (WCSox @ Oct 15, 2009 -> 04:22 PM) I have no problem leaving Beckham at 3B. But in the unlikely event that a high-impact player like Zimmerman or David Wright became available through a trade, I'd definitely take advantage of Beckham's flexibility. Fortunately for the Sox, the type of hitter they need right now usually plays 1B, RF, LF, or DH. So it probably won't matter. This is true. If the Mets want to deal David Wright though, I have a feeling Beckham would be one of the players they require coming their way...

QUOTE (League @ Oct 15, 2009 -> 04:13 PM) The Nats just signed him to a 5 year deal or something last offseason, I highly doubt he's going anywhere. He is the type of player we need to find though, if we could get an impact bat at 3rd and move Becks to second, we'd have one absolutely insane offensive infield. Zimmerman is the face of their franchise, and they'd have the same sort of PR issue on their hands as we would have if we dealt Mark. Additionally, I tend to think, as others have mentioned, that our search for a 3b is complete and that Beckham will be staying there for the forseeable future. My guess is we'd be looking at 2b and OF, as well as pen arms.

So since it appears the consensus here is that you trade Hudson before Buerhle, and he has more trade value anyways, who are some players we should be targeting to acquire for him? Ideas?

They'll settle for $3.5, give or take a few hundred k.

I honestly think you have to listen to any offers for Buerhle, but I just fear that he's one of those guys you're never going to get good value for. Sure, you might strike gold like the A's did and get a Danny Haren for Mark Mulder, but you also might get a Dan Meyer for your Tim Hudson. s***, the Twins couldn't even really turn Johan into anything that is helping them right now... I think you need to look into any kind of deal you might get, and I have mentioned that previously, but after reading a lot of this thread I think KHP has changed my mind. It's just not worth it to trade a guy like Mark when you know what he's going to give you every year. He's kind of like our Derek Jeter...he may not be worth what we pay him on the field year in and year out, but he is worth what we pay him in a lot of other areas.

I would be very surprised if we picked up an OF who made much of a salary at all. My guess is if we do make a trade, it will be for a young guy with some upside that is still cheap but for whatever reason his current organization is down on him. I'll bet Kenny has tasked his scouts with finding the next Carlos Quentin.

Ugh, nevermind. The entire point has been lost.

QUOTE (hometeamfan @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 03:58 PM) No one made Gavin take that offer. I wouldnt call any of these players spoiled-rotten. What kind of lifestyle were they raised in? Do you know? Pretty simple minded to make a blanket statement like that. Thats like saying a college athlete is "given" a college scholarship. They earned their scholarships....they "work" their way through college. The majority of the players in the minors are eligible for welfare benefits to supplement their incomes. Wonder if KW would be willing to earn far less than his counterparts? Or would you? Major League Baseball created this pay system. Don't criticize the players for following the rules Bud and the rest allow. Fine. They have been catered to for the majority of their professional lives in a way that most human beings could only dream of. Better?

That comment was made months ago, and no one even knows for sure whether he was serious or not. The point is is that these guys measure themselves at least partially by how much money they make. Remember, these are spoiled-rotten guys that have had things handed to them all their lives due to their ability. Whether something is fair or not, or whether a guy chose to sign a contract in the past is often of no matter to them. It's simply about who makes what and how does that compare to my peers. I'm not saying certain players of ours are like this, especially not Gavin. I'm just pointing out that these squabbles come up fairly often and I think it would be best to try and keep Danksy and Gavin on a fairly similar salary plane.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 03:17 PM) Peavy is a much better pitcher than Buehrle. I'm sure Buehrle can see that they are trying to put the club in contention to win a world series too. I doubt he is that bitter about it. Didn't something come out about Mark making a comment about Peavy's salary the first time we traded for him? http://fannation.sportsillustrated.cnn.com...ors/view/112656?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 08:34 AM) iamshack I don't see how you came to the conclusion that Floyd would feel alienated if Danks ended up getting more than he got. Floyd knew what he was doing when he signed his deal, in fact he probably felt relieved considering his shaky history with Philly and finally getting a nice payday. Danks rolled the dice on the assumption that he would continue his level of performance, knowing that if he did his contract would be worth more. These guys understand it's a business. I just think it fosters an atmosphere where players will resist signing these kind of contracts if after one year, we come back and substantially increase the deal. I understand there are necessary increases over what Floyd got simply because Danks' contract would likely cover more lucrative years, but I think it is important that the years the contract has in common with Floyd's, that the amounts only be increased in that they recognize Danks was paid less in his prearb years because he was working within baseball's system, whereas Floyd chose to sign a deal designed to pay him more in his prearb years in exchange for some cost certainty in the arb years for the Club. As KHP said a while back, the Club WANTS these guys to sign these "secure" deals, as it works both for the Club and for the player. If after one year of taking this gamble, Danks is rewarded with a substantially more lucrative offer simply because the Club wants him signed, then what does that say to Floyd? And trust me, I understand baseball is a business, and I understand these guys are adults, but men tend to measure their self-worth in their jobs by how much money they make, and I just think you want to try and keep Floyd and Danks on a fairly similar salary plane. I guarantee you Mark is a bit salty about what Peavy is going to be paid by the White Sox, considering the whole song and dance they fed him about contracts they normally hand out for pitchers, etc., when they signed him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 06:36 AM) The more I think about it, the more I think the Sox should at least see what the market is for Buerhle. He faded down the stretch, and if the Sox do make the playoffs, they way they have been talking brings up 2 questions: A. Would he be ready to pitch in the playoffs effectively? B. If the Sox had a decent playoff run, how would that affect him the following season? If you remember he horrid second half of 2006 was blamed on the playoff run. 4 years older, you would have to believe the effect would be at least the same. You then add that to the talk he will now be a #4 starter, his salary, and the little nugget that he threw out last year about retiring when his contract is up, so he may only pitch 2 more seasons anyway, it seems like a good time to at least listen to offers. As far as payroll, its going to be lower than last year IMO. Last year they dropped it while increasing prices with a 95% renewal rate and 3 extra home dates. Chevy is supposedly exiting the sponsor race, so that will probably make some dent, although how much does Chevy throw at the White Sox anyway? Can it be more than $2 million a year? I heard and the source isn't all that reliable, that the $90-95 million mark estimated above is pretty accurate. I agree with all of this. I think not only should Buerhle be shopped, but Konerko as well. I just don't see it happening.

I understand all this stuff, KHP. And if Danks is offered another extension, it should offer a more lucrative sum of money only in that it would seek to buy out more of his lucrative years of service time and/or FA years than Floyd's due to the later stage of his career it was signed. That is the nature of the gamble Danks takes and wins each year he stays healthy and productive while being paid less than Floyd in his prearb years because he chose not security but instead chose to allow the system to compensate him more in his arb years. The contract may also reflect changes in the general economy or in the market for which baseball players are compensated.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 12, 2009 -> 11:11 PM) Beckham seems to have permanently captured 3B in the eyes of the Sox. I wanted Beckham at 2B but I think that ship has sailed. I doubt Viciedo will be moved to RF and CQ is already in LF, so Viciedo will probably go to 1B. So, if we already have a 3B with an incredibly high ceiling that we'll have to move to 1B, then why would we trade an asset from an area of weakness (the bullpen, where Hudson should be headed for 2010) just to create a logjam? I have no problems selling high on Hudson, but if we do, I want a major piece that will help us immediately, and depending on what type of player that would be, I'd gladly throw in the keys to the rest of our farm to get him. You mean Adrian Gonzalez.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 12:00 AM) The Sox came out and said they offered the exact same deal to Floyd, Danks, and Quentin last year. Floyd signed, the others didn't. I believe the Sox should trying locking up Danks and Quentin both by offering them reasonable deals, which at this point would have to be higher because they're going to get more than Floyd in 2010 just be being first-year arbitration players. Edit: Also, Floyd's deal only matters in that Floyd's deal was both of their original offers. The Sox should in no way think about hurting feelings or whatever by offering Danks and Quentin more money than Floyd. Floyd signed the deal early because he wanted security at that point. CQ and Danks held out, now they get more. Floyd would have gotten more had he also held out. There should be no hard feelings anywhere. Ahh, I was not aware that they offered Quentin the same deal as Floyd and Danks. I disagree with regards to what you said about Floyd, but I will leave it at that.