harfman77

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 01:05 PM) If I could put Hahn's hat on I would take the following options, if they would be offered for Q, in this order: 1. Astros: Bregman , (and I might include another player from the Sox to get Breg, like Frazier) 2. Yankees : Frazier, Torres (don't need Diaz) (I would also trade Frazier to them if they wanted him for another prospect) 3. Pirates: Meadows, Keller (I'd throw in Avi Garcia, lol,) Please no Josh "Tank II" Bell. 4. If none of the above (which increasingly apapears to be the case) wait to trade Quintana for another day. In the meantime, I would try to reacquire Tray Thompson from the Dodgers. Edited to add: Frazier and/or Melky might be useful for the Yankees or one of the other teams, a and might possibly put one of these deals over the top. If Hahn trades Q for anyone straight up, he deserves to be fired on the spot. Why would the Sox trade Q for a player that is worse? For all we know Alex Bregman turns into Gordon Beckham, Q has been a model of consistency and is team controlled long term. That would be an epic fail. Even if Bregman turns into Evan Longoria, replacing one high value player for another doesn't get this team in a position to compete.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) We're over 6,300 posts between the 2. Insane. But a third of the posts are people talking about how many posts are in the thread and wanting it to pass the Cespedes thread.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 08:45 PM) Yea I agree. The national prospect people either havent caught up on Acuna or have caught up on Acuna and just haven't communicated it yet. Acuna + Albies is in the neighborhood of Meadows + Bell value-wise right now. I was brainstorming earlier and came up with Acuna, Riley, Pache and Foltynewicz/Wentz/Toussaint (really impossible to know which of the top 8 or 9 Atlanta pitchers the Sox really like). How does that sound to you, the Braves fan? Thats just not true. Acuna and Albies may have just as much upside, but they still have a lot of growth to even be everyday players. Meadows and Bell are ML ready talents that could start on opening day this season. You have to discount the ceiling of Acuna, Albies, and especially Maitan on their distance from the majors and the still significant chance that they could bust. You can certainly build a deal around those players, but you need to get quantity back to help mitigate the risk of taking lower level players.

QUOTE (OklahomaBrave @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 08:45 PM) Is that based on a personal dislike of him? He seems to compare favorably too 100 listwise to other #2 pieces mentioned? To be fair my knowledge of the Pirates and Astros org is less than my knowledge of the Braves system but I'd think he would be a better second piece than Newman, but a worse second piece than Tucker. I followed Newcomb pretty closely up to the draft, he has great stuff, but little command or control. Long term he is probably a power lefty in the pen unless he gets his mechanics inline. If he puts it all together he is a #2 or 3, but that seems less likely the more time that goes on.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:31 AM) Anyone else think it is premature for Atlanta to have interest in guys they have to trade 4-5 prospects for? I feel like they should still be in the "hording as many prospects as possible" phase. Pretty crazy that their rebuild actually started what, 2 years ago? Then again, Q is under control for 4 years so I guess they can continue building around him hoping to be good for the last year or two of that deal. No, this has been their plan all along. They have been amassing prospects to fill their ML roster and then trade to improve it so that they can be competitive once their new stadium opens this spring. They are not really that far away from competing in that division if Dansby performs as expected. A rotation of Teheran, Q, Folty, Garcia, Colon/Dickey will keep them hanging around this year, but they will need to upgrade 2B/3B sometime to really be contenders.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:29 AM) Still think that in the end, Q will go to a team where resources are unlimited--even if you're not hearing that team mentioned a lot now. Teams like the Pirates, Astros and Rockies are brought up a lot because they have the prospects to pull it off--but even when you get down to it...Q's price tag is enormous. To acquire him, you'll have to pay a huge price (even if that's in prospects rather than cash). For a smaller market team, prospects are the life blood--they make the world turn. Gutting a system of all the top talent to acquire 1 player is just as much of a risk to a smaller market team as it is for a large team to throw $200M at a FA. Can they do it, yes. Should they do it...maybe, but only if you're that 1 player away from serious World Series contention. Think about it...a smaller market team guts their system to get Q...now they are without the capital AND without the prospects to make other deals. Their asset becomes Q obviously, but a lot is riding on that acquisition to either deliver a World Series run or a similar haul of prospects after losing a year or 2 of control. Maybe I'm wrong, but in the end...I think you see teams like the Yankees or Dodgers emerge as true front runners because they have BOTH the prospects AND the financial resources to pull from or fall back on. Cashman's remarks about the price being too high was his way of scaring off all the smaller market teams--hopefully sending the message to other teams "if it's too high for the Yankees, it's too high for a team like you--(PIT)." Cashman knows he has what it takes to pull it off because if this trade bombs, he'll go buy another farm system. I think same goes for Dodgers. To acquire an asset like Q is a deep pocket investment--thin on cash and or prospects will ultimately box you out of the mix. If a smaller market team ends up with the winning bid, I will be very surprised considering the amount of risk they are taking on from a resource perspective. I think Q's contract makes him much more valuable to the small market teams that have a window of contention. In the instance of the Pirates, they can only hope that their prospects develop to give them as much value as Q will provide over the next 4 years. They are going to lose Cole, probably next winter, and Cutch will be out around the same time. If they want to take a shot that time is now and they need to capitalize by flipping some of those potential assets into assets that can help make a push now. By the time these prospects are going to be ready to contribute at a high level, the Pirates will have lost many of their key contributors to FA. The Pirates can wait for the next wave of prospects to develop to contend, but I am not sure their GM will be their to see it.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:00 AM) Scout.com suggested this possible trade idea today What do you guys think? Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana It would sting a bit not to get that high ceiling offensive player, but with two guys that project as a #1 and a #2 with a couple useful throw ins, that would be hard to turn down.

The packages I would have interest in: Yankees: Torres, Rutherford, Tate, Acevedo, Freicer Perez Astros: Tucker, Martes, Reed, Laureano Pirates: Meadows, Keller, Newman, Hearn Braves: Albies, Acuna, Wentz, Fried, Luke Jackson

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) The report from Cashman yesterday was that he was looking for 3 Elite prospect, and speculation that was that Torres/Frazier was their starting point. Or perhaps Cashman thinks all of his prospects are elite.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:29 AM) If the Sox are starting a deal with Torres and Rutherford they really cant expect too much more back. Probably a couple Victor Diaz's. Still a nice haul though, two premium position player prospects added is basically what you're hoping for here. Torres may not be where Moncada is as a prospect yet, but I could easily see Torres having the better career. Same applies to Meadows. That may not even be a knock against Moncada, Kris Bryant is better than Carlos Correa but I doubt any Astros fans are crying about having Carlos Correa (Mark Appel OTOH....). So 4 years of a top ten starter is not worth as much as cumulative three years of control of two relievers and a half year of a 38 year old DH? The Yankees got more than Torres and Rutherford back for each of Chapman, Miller, and Beltran. Settling for a package of Torres, Rutherford, and a lotto ticket would be a vast undervaluation of Q or an extreme overvaluation of a guy that has played 0 games of full season baseball.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 10:22 AM) Padres major league expenses have to be so low right now that they should have room. Agree.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 09:58 AM) We could but I don't see why a team that is already over (like the Padres) wouldn't just continue to spend. Thats why I think the Padres or A's would be the favorites, they both have a hard time acquiring ML talent and getting six years of control of a quality player can be worth the upfront expense. The problem they both have is that they operate under budget constraints and may not have the room left in their budgets.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 09:46 AM) So to summarize: Sox would be a likely destination if he is cleared after 6/15 Sox would be an unlikely destination before 6/15. Optimistically we have 1.1 million left for 2016. The braves among others could offer, what, 10x that since they are already over cap? Yes, and if the Braves offer 11 million they end up paying another 11 million in taxes.

QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 05:39 AM) Can anyone explain to me how Kevin Maitan who some claim to be a "Once in a Generation Talent" signed for 4.25 million while Moncada signed for 31.5 million the year before? Furthermore, highly hyped Cuban prospects such as Yadier Alvarez signed for (16 million) and Lazarito (3 Million) I would be very surprised to see Luis Robert sign for over 3 million due to the fact that I assume teams have already spent a good portion of there allocated money for international free agents. I may be in the minority and having no inside information I could certainly be horribly off base, but my initial observation is that the White Sox can offer a competitive amount of money without going over the spending limit and incurring penalties. For one, its because "generational talent" is the new buzz phrase for prospects. Secondly, Maitan was 16 when he signed with no professional experience. Moncada was 19 and had already had two years of experience in Cubas top professional league. The bust rate of the two players is exponentially different given their distance from the majors and comparable experiences. One thing working against Robert in either class would be that whoever signs him is taking themselves out of the running for Otani, with the exception of a few clubs that have space left in this class like the White Sox, Orioles, and Marlins. The favorites are probably one of the Astros, Athletics, Braves, Cardinals, Nationals, Padres and Reds since they are already over this year, but they will have a 100% penalty on whatever they give him as a bonus which can help keep his cost in a range that the Sox could afford. If I were to guess I would say the favorites are probably the Padres followed by the A's. The Sox are a dark horse and would need to make some moves to get the budget to sign him without affecting next years class.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 04:43 AM) Would have to be next signing period. No it doesn't. Sox still have some space under this years limit and can trade for more. With the Sox facing a 40 man roster crunch when Q is traded, they could move some guys off to get additional international slots for the current signing period.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 12:55 PM) We are barely under. He's not signing for less than $1 million. He may be, that is the new economics of the international FA market. With so many teams already having money committed to signings this summer, a bunch of teams restricted from making signings, that leaves teams like the Sox and Orioles with room from last season or the list of teams that are about to go on timeout. The Sox also have the option of perhaps trading a guy off the 40 man roster to a team that has extra bonus money left over like the Marlins or Orioles or a combination of teams.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 02:33 PM) Yes, I acknowledged this, and it does explain why the Yankees specially wouldn't be willing to trade those guys. But the market value remains. There's no way Miller and Chapman are worth those (types of) prospects and Quintana somehow isn't. It is about leverage. You had two teams trying to get to the WS and assets and a robust market starving for late inning arms which helped the Yankees extract large packages. This is why the Sox should not trade Q until they get everything they want, because at some point this summer a team is going to decide they are one SP away from making a WS run and the Sox can be well positioned to profit at that point.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 01:01 PM) Which is another area where the White Sox have failed catastrophically in recent years. Definitely, but they have been trying to fill 3 holes every year on a limited budget, now when they are looking to full three holes they are going to have $70M to spend instead of 10. Another piece to consider is that due to the Sox stadium, it is almost impossible to attract FA pitching to the team without a serious overpay. Hitters are easier to attract due to the bandbox reputation.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) It is also really obvious that not all position players will hit. Talking about guys like Collins, Moncada, Basabe, etc is nice, but some of those guys will bust as well. We need nine position players to fill a starting line up. We need just as many position players to fill out a roster as we do pitchers. If we want to learn one lesson from what the Cubs did it shouldn't be that these things are fail safe, it is that young position players are getting harder and harder to find to fill a roster with. It should also be completely obvious from the last 10 years where we spent year after year trying to find a 2B or a 3B, or a C, or OF's that it isn't as easy as people seem to think it is. Otherwise we wouldn't have failed to do it for the last 10 years. Sure, the Cubs built up there position players, but they also failed to develop any pitching. They caught a break when Arrieta started pitching up to his prospect pedigree and went out and spent money on Lester, Lackey, and Hammels to fill in the holes in their roster. The Sox are going to have to spend money to fill in gaps in the future either in the rotation or in the field, the advantage they have now compared the past few seasons is that they have been hamstrung in FA as they hovered around their max payroll. Now with a cost controlled rotation and a few cost controlled batters they will have more money in FA to pursue their primary targets.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 12:24 PM) Hansen should be in there with Dunning and possibly at AA. The issue I am seeing with MLB currently is that teams are becoming more reluctant to trade their youth. To think you will move a young pitcher for a young hitter may not work out. I don't know, the Yankees seemed to find a way to inject some youth into their system this summer by giving up two RP's. Teams will give up young talent for players when they are motivated. With the Sox as clear sellers this summer, they may be able to find some teams that are willing to overpay to try and compete in October.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 12:20 PM) I f***ing hate the mindset that trading for too much pitching is a bad thing. Do you guys remember how much trash was in the back end of the rotation during the Sale/Q days? Humber, Paulino, Danks, Latos, Noesi, Shields, just to name a few. That is one of the main reasons why those teams were never any good. The back end of the rotation was a black hole. Having a full 5 man rotation that has talent and potential is the real goal here. I'm absolutely okay with the Sox acquiring Glasnow/Keller if they get Bell, Newman, Hayes, etc. Odds are that at least half the guys the Sox have acquired never make the ML rotation. Two years ago there were high hopes for guys like Tyler Danish and Spencer Adams, now those guys are long shots to ever start a ML game. I think Kopech has a high shot of being a late inning guy down the road, but am hopeful he can prove me wrong and be a rotation guy. Scouts have already started to sour on Giolito and started moving him down their rankings boards, but there is a lot of opportunity in front of him yet to regain his form. There is no way the Sox will have too much pitching, when the Sox are ready to compete again they are going to need to make some moves in the trade market and pitching assets can be extremely valuable.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 09:31 AM) I really like Glasnow as a prospect, but was just mentioning that he has not thrown strikes consistently at all. Scouting reports suggest he can develop into a #2 or #3 starter if the command comes along That is pretty much par for the course for guys like Glasnow and Giolito. Those guys that are 6'7 plus usually take a lot longer to develop consistency in their mechanics. Randy Johnson is forever the prime example of this.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 12:38 AM) At first I find it hard to believe the Pirates would trade Keller and Glasnow but thinking of it again - I could see it. As someone else mentioned they get to keep both Bell and Meadows while adding a ace / high end two in Q for 4 years at bargain basement pricing. Please be the week. Please. The other thing to consider for the Pirates is that they are likely going to be trading Gerrit Cole and Cutch in the next 12-18 months which will net them some pretty nice prospects to backfill what they need to give up.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 01:48 PM) If Frazier is traded, I think Brett Lawrie will be the 3B Lawrie is probably likely to be traded before Frazier.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 08:32 AM) Trade Melky to giants - too many options on the FA market for th Giants to give up anything Trade Frazier to St louis Cardinals or new York Mets - Neither team has a hole or payroll space to take on Frazier Trade Jose Quintana to the Pirates or Rockies - Pirates allegedly do not have payroll space without moving Cutch, which seems to be the hold up, and the Rockies reportedly do not see Q as a fit for their park. Trade Abreu to Texas Rangers - Too many FA options available still to get a market to form I think Q is a guy that will always have a market, the rest will not until after the season starts, FA works itself out, and teams get into the season and see what they need to compete.