harfman77

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) MiLb FAs that intrigue me: C Willians Austidillo, RHP Roman Mendez, RHP Euclides Leyer, OF Kelly Dugan, LHP Brian Matusz, OF Slade Heathcott, 2B Sean Coyle, SS Cito Culver, OF Cesar Puello, LHP Rinku Singh, OF Stetson Allie, OF Mike Baxter, LHP Victor Payano, C Kellin Deglan, LHP Danny Hultzen, RHP Anthony Carter, RHP Neal Cotts Would definitely be interested in Matusz as a potential bullpen guy. I think Hultzen is probably done, going the route of John Danks.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) That would be one of the worst teams in the history of the league. You and whoever they were playing and their fans would be the only ones who didn't have a problem with that line up. As I said, I expect that some of those players would be bumped out by upgrades that are brought in from trades, but there's really no reason to spend money on vets when you have no chance at competing. Invest the money in other places mostly scouting and development, and keep payroll flexbility to take on some bad contracts to get some quality prospects, like when the Braves got Touissant for taking on Bronson Arroyos dead money.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 01:23 PM) I feel like trading Lawrie is unneccessary. He isn't expensive, he won't net you back anything franchise altering, and he is a low-chance lottery ticket to improve his value. If you are rebuilding, no real good reason to keep him. Trade him for a lottery ticket and figure out if Sanchez is ever going to be an everyday player. Theres also a decent chance that they get a quality SS back in one of their rebuilding deals, and that could displace Anderson. If the team is rebuilding I have no problem running out: SS Anderson 3B Saladino DH Garcia RF Liriano 1B Davidson 2B Sanchez LF Coats C Navarez CF Tilson The team won't win a ton, but you can figure which guys are going to be long term pieces and which are never going to amount to anything. I am sure at least 3 of those guys will be displaced by players coming back in trades and they probably won't trade all of their vets. If you are going to be bad, be really bad and get some extra bonus money in the draft.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) Chapman and Jansen are awesome but paying $90 million + for any reliever that throws 70 innings a year is insane. Create relievers by using failed starters. Trade them when they get expensive. Rinse and repeat. Thats the reason I wish we still had Montas. With what back end relieves pulled back in deals last winter (Giles and Kimbrel) there is a lot of value in having a guy like that in the late innings and then being able to deal him to fill holes. The market for high leverage guys is going to be through the roof this winter given the lack of options, the cost of high end options on the open market, and the way that guys like Miller, Chapman, Montgomery, and Allen impacted the postseason.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 25, 2016 -> 10:22 PM) There is no reason to release Hawkins. He's still 22/23, and a gamble on his very long shot is still better than a number of other outfielders in the system. That said, if some team wants to do a failed for failed trade, change of scenery, sure. Go for it. As a prospect he's virtually done. But he's not a Rule 5 risk, and he's not a minor league FA for another season or two. Might as well give him one more look in AA. Rather give him a shot on the mound then try and and trade him. His mlb.com draft profile said - "The young man also can pitch, carrying a 5-2 record with a 0.96 ERA, 57 strikeouts over 36 1/3 innings and a velocity ranging from 92-96 mph when he pitched Carroll to a regional championship." With the success some position players have had transitioning into pitching, Santos, Jansen, Lehich, it would be worth a try to salvage some value.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Oct 24, 2016 -> 11:21 PM) I still have this bad feeling about Collins. The Sox will rush him and break him the same way do the rest of their hitting prospects. But at least with the way he is hitting, there is no reason to move him out from behind the plate.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 06:52 AM) Not sure what the Dodgers have to give up for a guy like Sale. Seager is unavailable, probably Pederson, too. Puig is not nearly enough. I imagine they start with one of DeLeon or Urias and then add Bellinger, Verdugo and Puig.

QUOTE (Carpe Diem @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) Which of these 3 potential trades makes most sense for both teams? #1 White Sox acquire Lucas Giolito, Victor Robles, Reynaldo Lopez, + Nationals acquire Adam Eaton, Jose Abreu, Nate Jones #2 White Sox acquire Andrew Benintendi, Michael Kopech, Jason Groome, Eduardo Rodriguez Red Sox acquire Jose Quintana, Todd Frazier, David Robertson #3 White Sox acquire Julio Urias, Cody Bellinger, Yadier Alvarez, Austin Barnes, + Dodgers acquire Chris Sale and Melky Cabrera I dont think any of those teams do that. The Nationals have nowhere to play Abreu or Eaton. The Red Sox aren't going to be interested in taking on Robertsons salary and have no room for Frazier unless you are taking either Sandoval or Ramirez back in the trade. The Dodgers have no where to play Melky, with Tholes, Puig, Ethier, Pederson, and Thompson already in their OF and AGon on first. Dumping all the salary in those deals is going to lighten your return as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) If a Sale or Q trade worked out the same way the Miggy trade worked out for the Marlins, there would be a lot of unhappiness. People forget that another big piece of that trade was the Marlins dumping Dontrell Willis' salary on the Tigers, which lessened the return some as well.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 24, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) There is no real tl;dr of this post, though I'm sure I will write one part poorly enough that it will get argued about over and over. It's long and melodramatic. [edit: alternate possibility, nobody reads it ] But throughout this year I have been working with the idea that something just feels different about being a sox fan than when I was younger. It's hard to figure out whether something like this is just personal - change in social interactions, change in social life - or something actually happening so I wanted to write a post on it. First off, I'm 30. My white sox fandom becomes conscious around 93, takes a vacation after 95 strike, and comes back with a vengeance with the 2000 group and never stops. I basically grew up on this board, like many others. So it's very possible that older fans have seen this before. How can you tell they're a sox fan As the Cubs explode around us, it's hard not to notice the signs of being a cubs fan surpass ours. The W flag, that f****** song, the "try not to suck" shirts - whether or not these things make you want to vomit - there is a culture around being a cubs fan that extends beyond wearing a cubs hat. A shared experience of watching the team extending to memes and memorabilia. When I talk about culture of being a white sox fan, this is what I'm talking about. In a time that is more meme-able than ever, it feels like there has been a huge dropoff of these shareable experiences as a sox fan, and anything that's tried is very corporate, very astroturf (melkman tshirts, soxmath) In fact, the only thing that seems to hold us together at this point is misery. There were a lot isolated happenings this year that taken my themselves and put in more prosperous times, they'd have been no big deal. But with Twitter, the sale jersey cutups, the drake laroche scandal, the Guaranteed Rate change, it all feels agonizing. And the only thing that grounded me to other sox fans was that, that we were miserable, that we couldn't stand being the butt of the joke. "Hey you are pissed off, you must be a sox fan!" This frankly just reminds me of Royals fans when I moved to Missouri in 2005. In the face of all of the Cardinals fans, all they had was their camaraderie that they face humiliation every day but keep coming back. When we were young I compare this to just 10-15 years ago. Perhaps not-coincidentally, these were the formative years of my fandom. We were winning - to be sure. But it felt like I was soaked in a White Sox culture that extended beyond a box score. The thing that reminded me all of this was raBBit's post about his friend's all wearing their CORK shirts until they were full of holes. That was me! It was also 4 sizes too large. But there was more. There was the OH-EE-OH, MAGGGLIO chants. There was the JOSE OLE chants for Jose Valentin. There was the super embarrassing now, but certainly happened GONG phase from Shingo. Thunderstruck. Metallica when Jenks came out. Then of course - there was the co-opting of don't stop believing by the 05 white sox. I'll chalk this one up to the things that happen when you win. Some of these are as "astroturfey" as melkman. But there was a time when the white sox players and organization would feed us something and we would eat that s*** UP. New chant? I'll sing it ad nauseum. New player from far away? let's find a nickname and scream it. But now, I feel like I'm spitting up everything that they are spoon feeding me. There were always less sox fans, since I've been around. There was always a monopoly on "LORE" that the Cubs held. But there was a time when being a sox fan was different. It was an alternative pick. You were there for the baseball, and you mythologized and meme'd the players, not the losing (like the cubs). But now? Hey ... the k zone. Um, melkman. Oh those cool handmotions they do. What about Hawk? Oh he's old and incoherent. Am I just older? That's a definite possibility. But I guess you all can tell me. Being a sox fan this decade has been a bitter, bitter pill. And maybe all of this stuff is the stupid crap that doesn't matter. But damn if I can't wait for an intro song to play, a chant to start, that I can share with everyone, and it's ours. But until then, I guess misery is what we got. Its not about getting old. Those Cubs fans have gotten just as old as we are, and they aren't caught in the same trap. I think a big piece is that you have a generation of fans that grew up with an icon like Harry Caray, who while more incoherent than Hawk, was also a lot more relatable and adored. The Cubs fans partied at the park, Sox fans punched out umpires. There was a subculture that grew from the losing, Wrigley, Caray, Wrigleyville, and curses that created a huge contingency of fans for the Cubs. Even where I am, 400 miles away from Wrigley, it is sickening the amount of Cubbie blue you see here. The Sox in the same time frame have made their TV announcer their GM, which likely set the franchise back five years in the personnel that was purged. The bright spot was that ensuing terribleness led to the best teams the Sox have fielded in my lifetime. The White Sox of the early 90's were great, except against the A's. Depth of talent and a fun brand of baseball to watch. The lost WS still devastates me as a Sox fan. That team was stacked, and it turns out that JR was the primary force behind the Sox losing their chance that season. Then came White Flag, where a lot of people jumped off the bandwagon as most of what remained of the core of those very good Sox teams was dismantled. The prospects in the white flag deals almost universally failed, showing some of the issues in the Sox scouting. Then came years of poor player development and poor scouting which led to poor product on the field. A GM change was made, the Sox struck it rich on a couple of Latin prospects in Magglio and Carlos Lee. The Sox began their long run of mediocrity which continues to this day. Usually finishing 2-4 in the division. They caught lightning in a bottle in 2005, and a lot of those bandwagons filled up again, but the lack of any sustained success emptied it back out. The Sox just have never been able really to develop that strong connection with those casual fans to pull them into the fold the way the Cubs have. I am almost 40 now, and became a Sox fan in 91. As far as I can tell the Sox have never had the sense of community that Cubs and Cardinals fans have. Sox fans are a lot more like Twins and Brewers fans to me, a small core group that grows with success, but not the ingrained diehard culture.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 12, 2016 -> 08:57 AM) Sorry for bringing him up again, but why does nobody include Groome in potential packages? He's arguably their #3 prospect. HS pitchers have a high bust rate, and its way too early to tell if he is going to be anything or not. I don't want to lose value in other places to pay for potential that may never be realized. Kopech makes more sense as he is closer to the majors and if he fails as a starter, you probably have a decent bullpen piece.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 12, 2016 -> 08:26 AM) I would let Boston keep Moncada and Jackie Bradley Jr. I would ask for 6 players in return though Boston Receives: LHP Chris Sale White Sox Receive: CF Andrew Benintendi, 3B Rafael Devers, RHP Michael Kopech, LHP Eduardo Rodriguez, C Blake Swihart, and OF Luis Alexander Basabe. JBJ Only has 4 years of control. I'd rather have Benintendi and his full 6 years. I can't see them moving Moncada after spending the amount $$ they have on him. Devers and Basabe are significant prospects with the offensive upside they provide. Rodriguez can go right into the Sox rotation. They have loved Swihart for years and he would join the big league team with Benintendi and Rodriguez. Kopech is just the type of guy that the White Sox could get the most out of. Adding him to (Hansen, Adams, Fulmer, and Stephens) would give White Sox a nice young stable of RHP. The Dodgers are another team that has what it takes. They'd need to include Urias though. I think something like Urias/Bellinger/Verdugo/Barnes/Lux would be a fantastic deal but not sure Dodgers trade all of that. That's a killer haul. I see this thrown around a lot and I think it is starting to get overstated. Yes control is great, but getting a quality player trumps control when your talking 6 v. 4 years. I would rather have Benintendi as well, but it has more to do with I think he brings a lot in his toolbox that the White Sox sorely need. I think he has a chance to be an Ellsbury type of player when he was at his prime.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2016 -> 03:05 PM) That is just the icing on the cake with Shields. He (Tatis, Jr.) probably won't have the career his father did, but that trade sucks so bad on multiple levels. The question now is whether the Sox get any compensation back for that trade. Preller was suspended for intentionally withholding medical records on the players he traded this summer, most often the Pomerantz trade is talked about, but the White Sox deal for Shields is usually also noted in the articles that discuss the Padres practices.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) Question: in a 1 for 1, Sale for Betts, who says no? Hahn or Dombrowski? Dombrowski and hopefully the Sox. The Sox aren't one player away, so that trade would just shift the hole rather than plugging the multiple holes that a Sale trade should. Betts is an MVP candidate and has years of control left, plus he is a fan favorite, not likely that either side would be too interested in that deal.

I think the only reason you hand the job to Renteria is to let him guide you through a rebuild the way he did for the Cubs. Then when you are ready to compete again you go get the guy you really want.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) and it appears there is statistical data to support the position of where you hit in the order equates to more pressure and less performance for certain players. JBJ appears to be one of those guys (at least this year): http://bosoxinjection.com/2016/09/12/bosto...-bradley-order/ I think the thing with JBJ is that you just need to accept that he is one of the most hot and cold players in the league. Two or three years ago he was a bum and most thought you could get him in a change of scenery deal. He was solid last season, had an amazing stretch this season before cooling off significantly at the end of the year. Could be that pitchers figured out how to pitch him, or that he just isn't seeing the ball as well now. I think what you get with JBJ is a Jekyll and Hyde offensive player with top shelf defense. Heyward was mentioned and is not a bad analogy, although I think JBJ is better defensively and has a higher ceiling offensively than what Heyward has produced.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 01:52 PM) It's not though -- that's what makes it non-intuitive, but it's important. You have to think about it as the percentage of time that the player is contributing. Brady contributes to the Patriots 80-90% of the time the team is on the field, and the rest is most garbage time. An ace contributes 20-25% of the time in the season, and maybe 30% during the season. Brady is really only contributing at most 40% of the time, unless he has taken up kicking and started playing safety while he was suspended. A guy like Gronk is lucky to contribute 25% of the time given personnel packages, but when he does, his team benefits greatly.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 04:29 PM) Can someone provide some examples of teams trading their ace and it translating to instant more success? The Phillies last year?

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 08:09 PM) IMO, after reading one of the beat guys tweet out that the 2 teams were laying the ground work for an off-season trade, the Bo Sox just didn't wanna trade JBJ, or any major leaguer, mid season. Why "Lay the ground work for an off-season trade" and not just do it then? Either there is talks of a major leaguer or possibly a 2016 draft pick. Is Swihart bad defensively or do they just wanna get his bat in the lineup? He was average defensively, probably better than anything the Sox have had in a while. They moved him to LF because they had a hole there with Holt hurt, Vasquez is further along defensively and it made sense to keep him there so they could get them both in the lineup.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 12, 2016 -> 04:03 AM) If the Sox were to acquire Billy Butler, to be their DH, I think that might be the last straw for me. How would Butler do anything to fix this pathetic offense? They need one really good hitter, with a high OBP, legitimate power, and preferably left handed. You insert that guy into the top 2/3 of our current line up and you have suddenly transformed an inept lineup, to a dangerous, effective run scoring offense. Billy Butler is not that guy: Eaton Anderson Melky Abreu New DH (preferably Left Handed) Frazier That line up would be more than adequate, with the right DH. The problem is that no one seems to know who might fill that hole, or how to acquire him. It would be ideal if there were a player in the last year of his contract, playing for a new lucrative deal in 2018. He might be affordable, available and highly motivated. Then we could let him walk, with or without a qualifiying offer, at the end of the year. They do not have the resources to get that hitter. He definitely does not exist in FA, and they don't have the pieces to acquire him in a trade. Your best hope is that Collins turns into that player.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) But again what's the big rush? Why not go for it again next year and move those guys after next year if it doesn't work out? Lawrie, Frazier and Melky are free agents and will walk away with the Sox receiving little to no compensation. Sale and Q have one less season of control, diminishing their trade value. Free agent options are extremely limited this season, which raises the value of all MLB level assets with very few options on the open market. This is the optimum season for a rebuild given market factors. Conversely, this is going to be a very difficult offseason to add to a team given the constrained market.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) They still haven't said who won the claim? ESPN reports the team that claimed him was only really interested in blocking him from getting to another team. That makes me think Twins, based on the public knowledge that the White Sox have/had interest.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 12:15 PM) I doubt he got that far. I bet the Padres claimed him given their rebuilding status and lack of talent. They are pretty full in the OF though with Dickerson, Margot, Jankowski, and Renfroe knocking on the door.

If the Sox are going into a rebuild, I would definitely roll the dice on Puig as a buy low candidate. If he turns it around, you have an extremely valuable piece that can be spun into more pieces to aid in your rebuild.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 11:54 AM) I am torn. He could be a guy who in a place like the Sox could thrive, or he could crater. He won't have the media eye on him like he does in LA, and the atmosphere is a little more friendly and protective of the players. Of course that could backfire too. Honestly, if the Dodgers were really giving him away, i would take a chance on him. His deal really isn't that big, and the upside is worth the bet. He doesn't have long left on his deal anyway. I totally agree. If you are going into a rebuild, he could be a guy that you could buy extremely low on and then flip him for some significant pieces of value down the road.