harfman77

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 04:52 PM) I mostly agree, I really do want a veteran catcher who can handle pitchers though. I also don't care if they can hit, but unfortunately there aren't many Sandy Alomar Jr's on the market. I could see them waiting out the market for a vet looking for a short term deal. Saltalamacchia, Iannetta, Soto, Thole, or Hundley could be left out in the cold and serve as a placeholder for the Sox. Or they could go back to Navarro and Avila.

No, I could never root for my team to lose. However, it does make me a lot less upset when I think we will benefit out of it in the long run. This year I will be a lost less invested in wins and losses and more curious as to how individual pieces perform. Anderson still isn't a sure thing, I still think Sanchez has a chance to be a good player given his track record in the minors, and it will be interesting to see if the Sox can dumpster dive again this year (Latos) but profit off it at the deadline.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 10:54 AM) There's no chance Otani is going to come over for $8 million. He'd get $200 million if he waits until his 25th birthday. That was leaked to see if MLB would change a rule. If they don't, we won't see him until 2019. His contract will expire before then, so his team will want to cash in on him or they risk letting him go for nothing. If they re-sign him, there is no guarantee they will post him again until his next contract is near expiration. In the long run, he makes more money if he comes now, and gets to arbitration quickly as a super two, and will be a FA in 2022 at age 28 when he can really cash in given track record and age.

The market for closers is insane. The haul the Cubs gave up for two and a half months of Chapman, what the Phillies got for Giles, and the Padres got for Kimbral, coupled with the contracts given to Jansen, Kimbral, and Chapman have really raised the market value of quality late inning relievers to such an amount that makes things like Robles for Robertson not seem as crazy as it did six months ago. If Robertson reverts to form, he is going to pull in a haul this summer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) So the question becomes, would it be worth blowing your entire years signing allotment to bring Otani over? I think if you sign him and flip him the next winter, you are going to get far better prospects than you would from signing kids on J2.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 12:39 PM) Don't even have to liquidate. The Sox have $35M committed to the 2018 season and that includes Quintana, Robertson and the whole dollar amount of Shields' deal (I forget how much the Padres are paying). Play him at DH. A pitcher that also hits throughout the week (well) would be a sensation. Plus he will only be able to sign for about $6M. More than affordable. The Dodgers, Giants, Astros, Cubs, Royals, Braves, Reds, A's, Padres, and Nationals will all be under penalty and unable to sign a player for more than $300K. The White Sox have the same bonus pool as the Yankees under the new system, which is $4.75M, and they can each trade to have up to $8.3M. The Pirates, Indians, and Orioles could all offer more based on the new formula that assigns slots based on market size and revenue.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 12:25 PM) So the Dodgers wanted to keep Hill, Jansen and Turner and it looks like they'll do just that. You think they decide to get a little aggressive now that they've accomplished their goals? Maybe jump into the Quintana derby? Just pure speculation by me but bringing back the same team as last year while the Cubs and Nationals get better doesn't seem like a recipe for breaking through and winning the pennant. They would probably need to dump salary back out according to reports that said they are exceeding MLB's debt threshold. It looks like they are adding another $32M a year for Turner and Jansen, so they may be inclined to move some prospects to unload some salary, like Ethier and McCarthy.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 05:46 AM) If we've learned anything from Cashman over the years, it's that he HATES playing 2nd fiddle to the Red Sox in the AL East. The Holiday & Chapman signings tell me that they definitely do NOT intend on rebuilding. They do have a stock pile of really nice prospects-- thanks to in part of the Chapman and Miller deals. With that said, I'm sure Hahn would LOVE to get his hands on Clint Frazier, Gleybor Torres AND Gary Sanchez. If the Yankees really want Quintana back, they better pony up. Hell, i'm sure Hahn would even throw David Robertson into the package. With the Astros seemingly holding onto their prospects like a creepy crazy cat woman hoarding wild felines, I expect the Yankees coming out of the woodwork for Q and this would be a tremendous scenario for the White Sox' system. I don't the Yankees can be in play at all. Cashman would get killed in the media and the fanbase for giving up a haul of prospects for a guy they let walk. The only way I can see the Yankees in the conversation as a means to make other teams raise their offers. I could see a Robertson reunion for the Yankees though.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 02:25 PM) C- Mcann/Gattis 1b- Gurriel/McCann 2b- Altuve ss- Correa 3b- Bregman/Gurriel LF- Aoki/Gurriel/Gattis CF- Springer RF- Reddick DH- Beltran/Gattis I think that's a lot more realistic. Doubt Stassi is in their lineup much/even on their 25 and Beltran is far from an everyday LF at this point in his career. Not sure about their chances of getting Encarnacion, but everything I'm reading is saying its far from assumed. Gattis and Aoki are going to be the low men on the totem pole....they will be able to find plenty of AB's for both Bregman and Gurriel between 1B/3B/and LF. So basically everyone just needs to forget about Bregman. Aint happening. Yeah, I get they are not moving him. As I said, I don't have a lot of interest anyway. I just can't see them having McCann serve as their primary C on a regular basis at this point in his career, which is why I included Stassi. I still think they end up moving Bregman around 2B/SS/3B/LF on a daily basis, it allows them to get their guys regular rest and him everyday AB's without much positional disruption.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) Don't they almost have to move Q now too? I know people always feared a Sale injury but if they hold on to Q and he gets injured that simply destroys the entire rebuild plan. The other trade chips are unlikely to bring back half of what Q would and the Sox are in desperate need of position player prospects, especially ones who's timeframe lines up with the window of the new young core. I think the pitching styles make Sale a much larger injury risk than Q, and even if injured, Q has a much better chance to regain his effectiveness. Yes, you need to move Q at some point, but there is no rush, let the market convince you to move him. Don't move him now just because you have started the rebuild process, move him when you can net the most talent. Right now your core is pretty spread out: ETA 2017 - Fulmer, Giolito, Lopez, Moncada, Burdi, Tilson, Peter ETA 2018 - Kopech, Collins, Hansen, Adams, Dunning, Fisher, Call, Diaz, Michalzewski ETA 2019 - Basabe,Nunez, (2017 Rnd 1 pick) ETA 2020 - Adolofo, Curbelo, Alfaro I think you can still go out and grab talent at the deadline that would easily fit into that window and along with that have more of a chance to evaluate guys that have a good chance to actually hit their ceilings, especially guys that you are going to be looking at fitting in around 2019.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) Bregman is way better than Gurriel and would start at 3B Gurriel goes to the bench No. Gurriel is an eliter hitter and put up similar numbers to Bregman in a similar number of games despite never playing American professional baseball before. The Astros had Bregma in the fold when they decided to go out and get Gurriel as an upgrade at the position. No way Lunhow gets away with paying that guy $50M to sit on the bench. To me, its more likely that Bregman ends up in the Zobrist super utility role and plays a bunch of LF.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Houston won't and should not trade Bregman for Quintana or Sale Swapping him for Quintana helps your pitching, but equally hurts your offense as well I'm not 100% against keeping Quintana, but I feel like the best time to move him is right now with no other quality options on the market (Jason Hammel...yikes) Asking for Bregman is unrealistic, but Martes/Tucker/Reed is a package I could see Houston eventually caving on. Hell ask for Stubbs on the back end as well to round it out. Where are they going to play Bregman, especially if they bring in EE? C - Stassi/McCann 1B - EE/McCann 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Gurriel LF - Beltran/Aoki CF - Springer/Marisnik RF - Reddick DH - Gattis/EE/Beltran I get them wanting to hold on to him, but I am not sure where he is making an impact in that lineup. I am not a fan of getting Bregman, I feel he is being immensely overvalued for a SSS of production, I felt the same way about Turner. I would rather have quantity of quality rather than value wrapped up into fewer players.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:21 PM) What about Robles if the Sox include Robertson plus Nate Jones, or pick up part of Robertson's remaining Contract. I guess I am trying to figure our how our Sox can get a decent position player prospect instead of Moncada plus a slough of pitching prospects. You know, desperation may be setting in for Rizzo since he whiffed on a few trades already. I think you need to hold on to Jones and let him close for a while, then try to move him for a return similar to what the Phillies got for Giles.

I think they can stop now and get just as much if not more for their remaining trade assets in July. The groundwork has been laid with multiple teams so it really shouldn't take very much to get deals done once the teams can come together on the value of the prospects in the deal. At this point, I think it makes a lot more sense to hang on to Robertson through the first half to rebuild value after his knee surgery. His walk rate was up and HR's, but I feel that was because he was physically adjusting to his injury. I feel like he will be the premier late inning option available once Jansen is signed. I think Colome will be moved fairly shortly as the Rays want to move him at peak value. Melky is a professional hitter and will fill a gap for some team making a playoff run, Frazier is going to have value as teams identify their weaknesses as the season progresses. There are not many openings right now at 3B for contending teams, so as the season plays out his value will likely increase. Q's value doesn't change between now and July unless he absolutely is a wreck the first half. The likely top two starters on the market this summer will be Greinke and Q, so I think Q's value will make him the target more in demand. Abreu is the one piece that still could get moved over the winter. The Mariners, Astros, Rangers, Rockies, Pirates, Yankees, Blue Jays, and Orioles could all be in the market once Trumbo and EE are signed.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) I'm not a fan of this method of analysis. Prospect rankings are entirely subjective, so attaching a dollar amount to them is only amplifying the opinion of a very small group of people- sometimes just one person, depending on the rankings. Yeah, that is a system created by a prospect rich fanbase to de-value everyone elses established assets. The system does not take into account the bust rate of prospects.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 07:07 AM) No doubt there's 29 teams that would love to have Q but as you said, how many have the talent and willingness to part with the talent? Seattle could be the dark horse. They have the prospects but do they feel they can compete with the Rangers and Astros in '17 to justify giving up a haul for Q? Then again, the moves already made by the Texas teams may force Seattle to get in on the bidding to at least look like they are trying to compete in '17. Good call on Seattle. Hadn't given them much thought. Would love to grab Vogelbach out of Seattle. They also are a landing spot for Abreu. I'm not sure they have the prospects to land Q though.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:31 PM) Q is the only other player I can realistically see moving at these meetings. Market hasn't moved enough on closers (Chapman / Jensen still available) or 3B (Turner) for me to see the Sox having enough leverage / other teams to have the urgency to maximize our value (yet). Will be interesting to see what happens with Q. Yeah, I'm not sure there is enough time left to work something out unless they have something in motion already. Would probably have to be with the Yankees, Braves, or Astros since those are the teams that Hahn has reportedly engaged, and they probably have a good idea of the prospects that the Sox like. The Rockies could be a dark horse for a big deal, but that would mean they would have to likely swing a three team trade moving one of their OF's for more prospects for the Sox.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:31 PM) Couple of things: This paradigm shift is all Rick taking the reigns. Nobody will say this, but moving Chris and Adam was also about the clubhouse culture change. Hmmm...this may have been lamented here ad nauseum.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:31 PM) One position player in, and Eaton out. I don't see the net gain here. Basabe? I get your point, but I think it is too soon to tell. I am happy with the pieces we have gotten back, but there needs to be more to come to help the offense. There is a lot of time though, this rebuild is not going to be done this week.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:28 PM) I would think it's has to be higher than the #15 number thrown out. I think it was close to that after yesterdays trade where the Sox probably acquired 3 of their top 5. Now they have 5 of their top 7. To me its: 1. Moncada 2. Giolito 3. Lopez 4. Kopech 5. Collins 6. Fulmer 7. Basabe

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:19 PM) Guys who are under control for 1 year and who could qualify for compensation if you traded for them now will not be worth more at the deadline. I am not sure those guys will qualify for compensation under the new system.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:10 PM) We had good pitching. That wasn't the problem. Yes, but now that have backfilled it to ensure that we still have great pitching into the rebuild. The deals aren't done yet, but given the Sox ability to develop pitching, this is a good start. They likely have 3 offensive pieces of the future in place with Moncada, Collins, and Anderson, so supplementing that with a Q trade and in the draft will be big. I also think they could get some decent pieces out of a Frazier and Robertson trade that will supplement the core they are building.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:14 PM) Frazier and Cabrera absolutely must be moved. The others we can be a little more hesitant on if we want. They aren't blocking anyone of consequence and will probably have more value at the deadline, so they only need to be moved if you feel like you are getting something decent back.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:10 PM) I hope Hahn is on the phone with the NYY, LAD and Marlins saying, hey, whichever one doesn't get Chapman or Jansen, we got Robertson. Come get him! I think they need to hold him at this point and let him rebuild some more value so that his contract looks like a deal. I think the surgery will help him get a lot of that back since it appears the injury was bothering him since July (also when he started backsliding).

Two of the top 10 RHP prospects in baseball isn't bad. Not sure what Dunning is going to be, back end guy or in the pen, but good pick up. It appears the strategy is to focus on guys that are fairly developed and take a lot of the projection out of the hands of the scouting department. It probably cost a bit in terms of quantity, but a lot less risk in a deal like this than one that includes guys a long ways from their ceilings.