harfman77

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 02:55 PM) I don't know that I ever thought about it, but it's hard to believe Stone is 69 years old. I thought the same thing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) The Dodgers putting out "false stories" about him going crazy in the clubhouse when it didn't even happen...just doesn't make any sense to sabotage the value of your own player. The source was solid enough a few of the national baseball beat writers picked it up and had to apologize to Puig and Adam Katz (agent). I feel like the "false stories" are actually what happened and everything since has been damage control.

If someone claims Shields, do they take on his entire contract or just the portion that the Sox owe him? No way Melky clears waivers, he is below market value asset in a constrained environment. Robertson is near market value, but with the low number of quality arms available I doubt he will make it through.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) This is probably correct. The Dodgers are probably more interested in dumping his remaining contract than trying to get something useful in return. If that was the case he would be on the White Sox now. Multiple reports said the Sox were pursuing him, and if the Dodgers wanted nothing of value in return a deal would have gotten done.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) No, it's that prospects bust. Very rarely does it work out trading a star for a bunch of prospects. It does occasionally, and these 2 are different. They have years of control. It's not like they are going to be a free agent in a couple of months or another year. People were excited about Avi when he was acquired. Many were excited about Davidson. A lot of people thought Hawkins would be a stud. People are already down on Fulmer. It's not just the White Sox who have prospects that bust. Every team does. Look at the top 10s from 5 or 6 years ago and they don't look as good now for the most part. That's why they cannot settle. You miss on the prospect package for Sale and Q, you just set your team back a lot more years. Being very careful with this should be applauded not ripped apart. Maybe they are going to rebuild. Is there really a big difference if they waited until the offseason as opposed to now? You make it seem like it's now past the point of no return, if they were going to rebuild, these guys had to be gone. Besides, how can the Sox have so many players that have value of top prospects, yet be a team that is destined to be awful? And if trading away all your pieces is a sign of good management, how is it, if you don't think these guys know talent, you want them trading all of your worthwhile pieces? You want to talk setting a franchise back a decade or so, it would be getting what turns out to crap back for these guys. The problem for the Pirates was they had ownership that didn't want to spend money to compete. They went cheap in the draft and in FA and the results were not good. They got new ownership, started spending money in the draft, have grown their fanbase and now have a team in contention with one of the higher end farm systems in baseball.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 07:41 PM) JR doesn't want the team to suck too badly since the TV contract will be negotiated in a year or two. It doesn't matter, the Sox already have the worst ratings of any MLB team, the team doesn't have much further to sink in that department. Outside of a relocation, there isn't a lot going for the Sox in their next TV contract.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 06:29 AM) JUst saw Buster Olney on ESPN this morning reviewing yesterday's trades, and he closed with a bit on White Sox, saying they have a chain of command issue, which is a real problem. Unquote. There is KW rearing his head again. Hahn probably needs to go and find a place where he can be free to operate as a GM without KW's ego getting in the way.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 05:33 PM) Regardless of everything that transpired "mired in mediocrity" was a misstep. I diagree. It at least demonstrated that Hahn feels the same way about things that most reasonable fans do, at the end of the day he was not able to do anything to improve it. I appreciate the honesty at least.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 05:16 PM) We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Betts is a really nice player, but he's not a perennial All-Star with borderline-HOF skills. His main advantage over Sale is that he's cheaper and under team control for one extra year. Hes all star at 23 and finished in the top 20 of MVP voting as a 22 year old rookie. And he plays in 150 more games a season.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:11 PM) Can we trade Rick Hahn for David Stearns? I would rather trade JR for Mark Attanasio.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 04:47 PM) Best I can tell, the new scouting director blows smoke up a few strategic behinds and now they are considered much better. I am not really sure there is much to the "new scouting director". It seems like the White Sox just inflated everyones title and they are all still doing the same thing they were 5 years ago. The farm is pretty much junk at this point with poor scouting, poor international signings, and a lack of ability to identify valuable players in trades.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) I know everybody is probably stuck over in Trade Winds but thought I'd bring this up here. I, as much as anybody kind of want to see a trade for a sake of a trade. Not that it makes sense. I am just so frustrated as a fan. My levels have reached heights they've never been before. For the first time since 2004 I am no longer watching games daily. I mean, through it all, I've watched 120-130 games a year. Basically if it could be worked into my schedule I'd watch. I've bought season tix (partial) almost every year.. but now? Done. I've started watching Astros and Cubs baseball, or just any random game of solid teams because I enjoy watching fun, fundamental baseball. Robin, the FO, the players all have not done this. Now besides my rambling anger I just brought up the 2012 prospect list. Now, it has always been my belief that if you trade a Sale or Q you'll never win the trade. It's just not possible. And I think this list confirms it... http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/ Who cares what their rankings are? Dylan Bundy? psh. he's a nobody. Not even a top 10 prospect is a guarantee. So to me, how am I going to trust our FO and scouts to correctly identify the good ones in a trade? Our whole existence is being bad at identifying and developing talent. Just saying maybe keeping Sale and Q isn't the worst. Mediocrity or not. On that list you have six guys that have had significant injuries in Profar, Bundy, Walker, Wheeler, Hultzen and Skaggs. Then you have: Wil Myers - all star caliber player Trevor Bauer - Head case with talent, ML rotation piece Gerrit Cole - Cy Young candidate Nick Castellanos - Hitting .291/.332/.508 with 18 HRs this season. Of the guys that are healthy, I am not sure why you wouldn't want one of them along with 4-5 more prospects for one pitcher. Yes, there are always going to be discrepancies between the way that teams actually value talent and the way that media outlets rank it. The 2011 list was: 1 Mike Trout 2 Bryce Harper 3 Matt Moore - traded for MLB 3B and prospects today 4 Julio Teheran 5 Shelby Miller 6 Jesus Montero 7 Jacob Turner 8 Martin Perez 9 Jameson Taillon 10 Manny Machado Thats a really good list of players. Turner and Montero busted, the rest are at least quality ML pieces. Would have loved for the Sox to be to acquire a player like Heyward or the package the Dbacks gave up for Miller too.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) This Plenty of opportunities to deal Sale this winter. Its not just Sale, I don't think anyone minds the idea of holding Sale and Q to the winter. Its keeping guys like Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson, Shields, and Gonzalez, guys that have their values enhanced by teams being in win now mode and the limited availability of assets. Those are the guys you need to get deals for. The market for closers and the releif market in general has been insane, and the Sox failed to capitalize. The Yankees just pulled in a pitcher drafter 1.4 last year for two months of 39 yo Carlos Beltran. There were plenty of deals to be made. The FO did nothing to improve the future (long and short term) of this team.

QUOTE (MDWhiteSoxFan @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:15 PM) So who is the big name we get this off season ala Shark last year and Frazier this year? My guess is Puig Say hello to Jason Castro, Ian Desmond, Colby Rasmus and Jered Weaver.

QUOTE (TRU @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) We can either assume the White Sox are asking too much or the Red Sox aren't offering enough, there's really no other ground to take here. Based off of moves Boston has made in the past and "moves" the White Sox have done, I feel pretty confident in assuming its the White Sox that are causing the issue until proven otherwise. Again, no idea what the internal talks were. I just find it hard to believe Boston wasn't ready to play ball and come at us with a legit trade offer. Quite honestly, I think they probably got a great offer but deep down refuse to pull the plug on this team. The third option was that the Sox were posturing the whole time and Hahn couldn't convince JR to sell.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:06 PM) I don't understand the bafflement. I get that you guys think they should blow it up, but why are you shocked that they aren't? They're a .500 team with all of their core players controlled next year. They just decided to keep trying to build and win. I'm not saying it's the RIGHT decision, but it's not a confusing one either. Its extremely confusing. What is going to put this team in a better position to compete next season than they are now? The free agent class is not good, especially when you consider where the Sox typically fall in the pecking order of free agents, and there are very few tradeable assets on the farm to fill the holes at C, LF, CF, LHRP and SP. Why not sell when your assets have more control (and value) rather than waiting for the value of those assets to diminish and get a meager return that will delay your eventual rebuild.

QUOTE (GoGoSox2k2 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) You are spot on. I am not done with this team becasue we did not trade Sale or Q. I am done with this garbage because they did not move one of Robertson, Shields, Gonzo, Frazier or Melky in a sellers market like this. Just so sickening and frustrating and unacceptable. Look at the Yankees, Brewers etc The Yankees probably just went from a middle of the road farm system to a top 2 or three system by trading two rentals and a closer making $9M a year for two more seasons. I can't blame Hahn, this type of ineptitude pre-dates his tenure changes are needed at a higher level.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 03:00 PM) Usually a stuff keeps coming for at least 15 minutes past the deadline (in the sense that it has been delivered to the league, but came together last minute so less likely leaked). Ha! The annual obligatory, "maybe it just hasn't been announced yet" post.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) We don't know what they were offered guys. Get off the ledge. There were plenty of deals to be made outside of Sale and Q, the only one they pulled off was Duke for a career 4th OF. Even that deal tells you that they are not committed to building a team, they are delusional thinking that they can keep throwing crap at the roster and it will put them into contention.

QUOTE (heirdog @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:54 PM) actually that keeps Gallo in play The Sox need nothing to do with Gallo. Without Ortiz, the Rangers are out.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 01:57 PM) I am not sure I buy this logic. Sox are the type of team that places a value on each asset and wont budge past what they assess that value at. They aren't a team that makes moves on emotion. I think they've gauged the value for Robertson, Sale, Quintana, Duke, Frazier, Cabrera, etc. They probably have offers in place. With a guy like Robertson, they're very much pushing to move him and they're probably holding out until they're sure they have the best possible offer in hand. On guys like Q/Sale, they have a price, and they are waiting for that price to be met. Maybe some team succombs to the Sox demands with the deadline approaching, maybe they don't. The issue is that while they are sitting by watching their assets lose value, deals are being made around them, deals that they could be making to improve the team in the long term. The FO seems to have a lot of paralysis in decision making, most likely because they have too many decision makers to ever be nimble. The Sox are going to trade a few prospects that they have left for a veteran OF and maybe C in the offseason and try and make another run, because thats what they always do, and when that happens Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson, Sale, and Q will continue to lose value as their length of control decreases, and worse case scenario, injury. I like the trades that Hahn has made(except for the Frazier deal), but I just feel the front office has no plan. They started down the path of a rebuild getting some quality prospects in the org and then closed the book and decided they were going to jump into competing a year into the plan. Yes, they could make moves in the off-season when there are more buyers. The offseason is a more difficult time to extract value as there are usually a lot more sellers as well in combination to the assets that are available on the open market as FA. I really can not wait for JR to sell the team, he has built an institution that thrives at mediocrity and does little to nothing to try and actually put a competitive franchise together.

Frazier, Sanchez, Torres, Andujar, Severino, and Acevedo, would be ideal to me from the Yankees. Judge holds very little appeal to me.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 12:41 AM) Profar is going to be a FA before Sale though. And I'm confident Gallo is a bust. Give me Mazara, Odor, Profar, Ortiz, and Tate for Sale, Saladino, and Melky Profar is a FA in 2020, Sale 2019.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 01:35 PM) They still have two days. Which really isn't that much time to pull off multiple deals. At this point you are probably looking at two deals, possibly a third if they are smaller in nature. There just isn't that much time left to iron out all the details and get KW/ownership approval of much more than that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 29, 2016 -> 12:42 PM) Better odds with Gonzalez than Cashner. Rea is better than Gonzales and has a bunch more control as well.