quickman

well my biggest issue is why they would want to trade a pitcher who is 28 and who they were rumored to get for years and is lock up for three years for a guy who plays right field with a huge contract who we don;t need. Somebody, college kids with all the stats, please tell me this. Contraras didn't sign. thats a fact, hope he does, but if he doesn't get the f*** out. and guess what ?we don't miss a beat. Stick your stats in your back pocket because vasquez traded this year won't happen in anyones wet dream. And thats a fact. and I will be happy to send a check to anyone who is willing to bet me on it. There its done quit acting stupid.

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jan 11, 2006 -> 11:45 PM) Hijack my butt. Just a well reasoned response (albeit sorta drunk) to someone claiming to have a devining rod into the mind of KW. I understand that SABR backlash, but for being buzzed only spelling "Vasquez" wrong once or twice can't be that hard of foul. At least I got those stats right! Besides, sabrmetrics are so much more relevant with a world series champ, it's like the intersection of theory and practice! In this case forcing SABR to re-evaluate the importance of defense and speed. Let me guess your taking Stats this semester.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 9, 2006 -> 10:23 PM) Thanks, did not see that, moderators please feel free to delete the thread. He shows up on the mlb free agent tracker as still out there, but I know he was contemplating retirement and he's followed through. Yea great, we would be looking at club foot plus the other guy with no arm, whats next a blind pitcher. We made a mistake by waiting too long to get a reliever. its still a hole and now we have to look at guys like Baj and tracey to come through on a solid defending world champ team. Only mistake KW made.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 04:46 PM) True, but we dont have an endless budget, and if this team fails and we are still playing well going into locking up our pitching to make another run, and we get to Mark's contract and Tejada's is handcuffing us, does it make sense then? Its great to amp the payroll and bring in superstars that look like they are the difference makers, but how often does THAT pan out. We DID win a title with a low payroll and some hungry players. Your chances of winning are with better players. We won last year despite our team. Sorry that is the truth. Everything went right, just like our playoff team in 2000. By the way its the first time in like 90 years that we won. Don't think it can be repeated without better players. As far as budget, I will let the org figure that out, I need not worry about team budget, we are not the GM's or the owners. I will say, if we get tejada I do think it will increase season ticket holders and our chances to win the division this year, don't you think?

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 04:15 PM) How do you know it is legitimate? Do you run the site? His rumors are never ground breaking and usually make little sense. When he has a rumor that is not menioned any where on the internet before him... and it goes through. Then maybe he will be given some acknowledgement. We have threads daily with this site now for about the last three weeks... why is that? He has been around alot longer than that. Qwerty of course this could all be bulls***. probably is. But it may not be. I do think something with tejada will happen soon.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 03:50 PM) You really dislike prospects huh? Look one day this lightening bolt we are on will come to an end. Then we can rebuild. Until then, we get better with proven players (superstars) build the fan base and win divisions. Prospects usually don't pan out. That simple.

Not that my opinion matters but I would love this. Getting a top 10 player in the league is tremendous. I could care less about prospects. They are just trading pawns.

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 11:42 PM) Quickman: What is your problem with using stats? I think you should read some of Kunes stuff on the nature of scientific revolutions, because you're acting just like his dinosaurs. Stats don't necessarily mean the best team mates or the best ballplayers for this team. In addition I tend to like to see people play, I think I can judge for myself whether somebody is good or not. Personally I think we have a bunch of stat geeks around here they are so obsessed with stats it clouds there judgement before they actually see players for themselves ( in person) or on TV. Everyone rushes to the stat sheet. Just don't think baseball is played like that. I certainly do not believe Ozzie plays like that. And yes you can call me a dinosaur compared to all the teenagers who know everything as they have there parents pay for everything.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 11:06 PM) I tend to think a trade for Contreras would pretty much spell the end to Clemens in Houston. Financially I don't think the Astros could afford to give him 16-18 million for another year. They are in a total mess right now thanks to the contracts they've given out to a lot of older guys (people like Bags). They did with Bags what we DIDN't do with Thomas. Thomas was my favorite player but we did the right thing.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 11:05 PM) I think were definately seeing eye to eye on this and I think each team matches up decent, but I think Kenny has no problem sticking with Contreras and turning some of his lesser prospects into a reliever. At the same time I could also see Kenny giving Tracey a shot and since I don't think this spot will cost the Sox a playoff spot halfway through the season Kenny would always have the option to make a move in late May/June to add a reliever if Tracey or Anderson aren't producing as par (just to bolster the club for a world series drive). If Brian Anderson or one more reliever are the reason the Sox don't make the playoffs, I'll be shocked. Its going to come down to our rotation staying healthy and producing as well as the bats consistently scoring runs (not a ton, but just being able to execute and do enough). I think our offense (on paper) is better than last years and the pitching staff is deeper and more proven than last years. The best part is this club is going to be able to continue to mold and gel and hopefully improve because you don't win it all staying the same. Kenny knows that and he's filled what he saw as voids in last years club. I'm quite confident we'll see another reliever and maybe we'll see Jose dealt to get him (or maybe we'll see prospects go for him). Either way this has been unlike any offseason in past history. Kenny has been his agressive self and he's had the blessing from Jerry, Eddie and the other investors. I'm really excited for baseball season to start because I love how agressive this team has been and they have the right attitude of pitching, defense, and some timely hitting. True true

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:53 PM) Keith your killing me. Jerry Owens does not equal Willy Taveras. Owens is a guy whose going to have to hit to succeed in this league. Taveras will have to hit, but he can also play above average center field at the age of 24. He has a good arm for a CFer, great range, the ability to steal and he's shown the ability to hit major league pitching. In the minors he showed pretty good patience and my guess is you'll see his patience improve at the major league level. If this guy were on the Sox last year, I think quite a few of us would be going crazy about Taveras potential to be a future leadoff hitter while serving as Pods 2 hole hitter for the next year or two (and than eventually replacing him). Jerry Owens = 4th outfielder unless he can hit .300 with a good OBP and if he can improve his base runner ability. He needs to better utilize his speed. The fact that he plays Pods position, and NOT CENTER, is another fact that people need to realize. I don't see the Sox replacing Pods next year so Owens is going to be platooning at best at first and it won't be until next year (unless he tears the cover off the ball in spring training or if Pods gets hurt). Jerry Owens is not capable of playing CF. NOT CAPABLE. Talk to people in the Sox org and they will tell you the same thing. In a pinch could he, I guess, but he'd be freaking horrendous out there. He'd be worse than Pods in CF and Pods is a crappy fielder. damn it are you in my brain? Dead on. Tavaras is a better ball player than Andersen right now and one that fits Ozzies needs this year. He is cheap, and talented and has upside. We have contraras as a chip, we have two holes right now, Center field and bullpen. If tavaras is available and Qualls, then there is your trade. No stats just holes to fill. I too don't think it will happen.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:48 PM) Brian can steal 20 bases a year in an agressive system. But we are talking about the top of the lineup and Brian Anderson shouldn't be anywhere close to the top of the lineup this year. Personally, knowing the way the organization feels about Anderson, I don't think there is a chance in hell the Sox are actually seriously looking at Taveras. However, I can see the reasons why, but I also see why people throw his name out there (anyone can figure out what type of guys Ozzie likes and Taveras is that type of guy). Because of that your going to have his name brought up when a team like Houston is rumored to be after a frontline pitcher. Anyway, my 2 cents is that most of this is all for naught because Anderson is going to be our starting CF at the start of the season (for better or worse) and unlike most I'm not exactly comfortable with Brian. At the same time I think our lineup is quite good and our pitching staff is great (as long as it stays healthy). I'd like to see our pen strengthened, but if Brian Anderson and one bullpen arm our the Sox sole questionmarks, I think we'll be alright at the start of the year. Its not like we are going to be asking Anderson to be a key player. As long as he can play defense and improve as the season goes on, I think they'll be alright in CF. I like Anderson's defensive tools a lot and I have my doubts (always have) about his offense, but he has the raw capabilities there and has always proved me wrong while playing well at every level he's been placed at in his career. Hopefully he does more of the same at the major league level. another awesome and correct post. One without a stat. I too think they will try andersen out in center this year because they can hide him. They will use a starting pitcher to get more bullpen help. But if tavaras is available, I would like to see it happen.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:43 PM) Anderson has a lot of holes in his swing. They were thoroughly exploited at the major league level (in albeit a small sample size). Over the long haul I think he'll be a solid ballplayer, but I still am in shock at how people have been annoiting both him and Owens can't miss all stars. Our best outfield prospect (by far) is no longer in our system (no biggie if Anderson can develop and Vazquez pitches well), but Anderson is no guarantee. He has all the tools but has quite a bit of work to do to his swing and approach if he's going to succeed at this level (as do most youngsters). I'm always amazed at how fans in general always overrate prospects and underrate proven commodities. Its almost like how backup qb's are always better than starting qb's. Well until they get the opportunity in which case most of the time they show why they are backup quarterbacks. AHH now here is a man who looks at more than stats. Very nice post. If we get Tavaras, we can then trade andersen for more bullpen help. Then the real prospect we have left (Sweeney) can develop. He is the only one left that I like at least until the next failed draft!

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:35 PM) Jim, in my opinion -- and I could be wrong -- I think you're overstating Ozzie's quotes. What I mean by that is, if Kenny was really on board with getting another slap-hitting speedster, I think he would've had the better, left-handed Willie Taveras already (Juan Pierre). I think that Kenny realizes the importance of power in his lineup, and I think he likes having three guys at the bottom of the lineup all capable of 20+ HRs (Iguchi/Uibe + Crede + Anderson). I also think that he's extremely confident in Anderson's defensive capabilities. Will Taveras gain more plate discipline? Ehh, he might, but even at his peak, I don't think he's that great of a player. If this were to be a move for further down the line, I think I'd dislike it even more, as we already have a guy like him in Jerry Owens. ...... QM, you made a comment about everyone thinking Anderson will put up All-Star numbers. Is .250/.315/.425 really the line of an All-Star. 'Cause, frankly, I have minimal expectations for BA in his first year offensively. Really, his importance will come on how good he is defensively out in CF. I will let jim Speak for himself, but as per the question to me. i do think people on this site believe andersen is going to be great. Put me down as somebody who thinks he won't. My post was more tongue and cheek to those who fall in love with opur terrific farm system. As per the pierre comment ( not addessed to me) pierre cost lots of money. taveras doesn't. I also think Tavaras can improve, he is a great bunter and is a threat on the bases. speed is good. and this guy is cheap.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:28 PM) Agree with everything except the part about you and your opinoin being humble. Humble is as humble does. or something like that.

Well for what its worth, I don't hink we will get him. I do think we will get relief pitching which we need. But I am certain most here will find some stat they don't like. But in my truly old humble opinion, there will be trade and we will get a player or two that will be part of the 25 man. Personally center field is a hole. I think it would be great to get a guy who played that position well, and played it in a world series, that doesn't cost much money and fits the mold of an ozzie Guillen player. But there are no stats for that, just simple stupid logic.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:11 PM) Hit #2? With a .325 OBP? If he's your best #2 hitting option, you have one really pathetic offense. Ah, s***, I used stats. Nevermind... Like I said you all know more than me. You guys are so smart. Really all of you can rattle stuff off. Please let me know who will win the world series next year. I am sure those stats will tell you.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:07 PM) Wait a minute, I'm confused. The White Sox want players who can steal bases, hit for average? We need to site down and discuss this, I have not been privy to Guillen's philosophy. Oh man you must not have watched them this year as much as others. Yea guillen likes to play this National league type baseball, whatever that is.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:07 PM) Taveras struck out 103 times and only walked 25 times last season. Like I said you guys have all the stats. Lets not even play the games. Its just about stats. This is why I don't know as much as these young people.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:06 PM) I do too. But how many teams have two of the same type of player in their outfield (Podsednik and Taveras)? Not many, because it would weaken their lineup. Not necessarily because you can get power from other postions in your lineup. They suspect that Iguchi can hit 20-25 if lowered in the order and most people here have Crede Busting out this year. (not me, but most people). In addition thome brings an added bat.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:02 PM) Personally I think the White Sox are impressed with what Tavares can do, along with 29 other teams. Just my opinion. Do you think thats what there looking for? More speed, good D. A guy that can hit #2. i don't know, maybe everyone is right Brian Andersen even though he strikes out like Sammy Sosa, he might have more power, at least he had some power in the Minor leagues.

right, like I said everyone knows more than I. I think thats what I said. your right, thats why I usually just sit back and learn. I just have a hard time keeping up with everyone.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 09:55 PM) I don't think anyone is saying that Brian Anderson will be a star in 2006 (at least I hope no one is). It's just that Rowand was hardly impressive offensively last season. He had a pretty mediocre .736 OPS. As long as Anderson plays solid defense in center field, we should be alright. See all these stats. With stats like these, you do not have to play the games. just look at stats. i saw earlier people thought andersen was better than tavaras already! Even though the guy has barely played.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 09:46 PM) Right, well my guess is you know more than most people on this site, but let's not tell anybody ok? By the way ... stop yourself. No there is no way I know more. I am old and frail compared to these wipper snappers. Are you kidding these guys with all their stats. They have Brian Andersen as an all star already. They know stuff. Not like me at all

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 09:40 PM) Stop yourself. VAFan thinks it makes sense to keep him no matter what, therefore they will keep him and a thead will be bumped up accordingly. Don't take this too seriously folks, just having some New Years Day fun. well he knows. Thats why I am just sitting back waiting for people to tell me all they know.