Texsox

Maybe he said it in green? I think everyone deserves a second chance. If he has a clean record, I'd keep him on and trust he doesn't make the same mistake twice. Phrases I heard behind the scenes in an ER Pass the Bible, he's studying for the final . . . Gomer (he's gone, no hope) We wasted clean sheets on a guy whose going to die in a couple minutes? These were all dedicated, caring people who entered a profession to help people and used gallows humor to cope. I know a pediatric oncology nurse who used whatever he could find in the narcotic cabinet.

All the forum mods suck Have a little compassion for the mods. They are volunteers trying to create a community. As far as restrictions on the Internet, of course different sites have different tolerance levels. We try for a PG13 to light R rating. We over step it sometimes and perhaps err too much on the other side but overall I think the volunteers have done a great job. One area we get into is common usage ion one age group isn't common usage and has a totally different meaning in another. Caution wins.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 05:26 PM) Brain cells don't grow back.. she is never going to improve. What happens is other areas of the brain take over for the damaged areas. Brain cells are a use it or lose proposition which is why his refusing basic things like taking her outside and holding a wet towel, are so objectionable. It is far easier for me to side with the parents on motives. Would anyone here want to care for Terri for the rest of your life? The husband is free. It seems like he wins of he gets his way, if the parents get theirs, they are in for a lot of work.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 05:10 PM) I don't know why him having another "life" doesn't bother me like it does others.. I guess because if this was me I would not want Jim stopping his life for me if he was told by several doctors that there was no hope and after 7 years I did not improve. I'd want him to have someone to turn to for comfort. You guys are human.. and with that is the need for companionship. I don't think it makes his decision easier.. I think it makes it more tolerable. I agree 100%. And it is also what I would want my wife to do. But my wife and I also agree that if our parents were willing to care for us, we would want that. If by being kept alive we could make our parents happy, we would. It seems like a fair deal for the people who gave us life. Steff, I admire your steadfastness on this issue. It is a difficult decision for most people to say that an innocent human is better off dead. I think your compassion for Terri is genuine and hope you don't mind our difference of opinion. I still think the husband is not the kind of person I would want my daughter to marry.

I tried to verify this without success. Does anyone know if a Doctor recommended pulling the feeding tube and the husband agreed, or he ordered the feeding tube removed? My understanding is all the Doctors that have cared for her have recommend keeping her feeding tube in or voiced no opinion. It is the husband who is pushing to end her life. I don't know if this would change anyones opinion, I rather doubt it. Steff, I truly wish she had been explicit in writing down her wishes in this situation. I'm with you in that there is probably no hope and passing peacefully would be a compassionate thing. The way this is happening, there will be three victims. I can't get past allowing her husband (and him specifically) this life or death decision.

When this is your world and you see it every day, gallows humor takes over. My wife worked in hospital ER and they would use humor to cope with the stress. That of course never escaped to the patients or their families and wasn't their true feelings, just a mask. or maybe he was drunk

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 04:26 PM) Maybe these people have a few more brain cells than those idots that visit CNN.Com.. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/s...d=599622&page=2 Should Feeding Tube Be Removed? Support Oppose Non-evangelical 77% 18 Evangelical 46 44 Catholics 63 26 Liberals 68 24 Moderates 69 22 Conservatives 54 40 Democrats 65 25 Independents 63 28 Republicans 61 34 Conservative Reps. 55 40 That's an average of 62.1 supporting the removal. Steff, is there a column for people that support her right to die, believe she should die, but her ex-husband shouldn't be the one making the decision? If her parents wanted the feeding tube removed and her husband was blocking it, would you still support the husband? Edit, let me ask this a different way. Are you supporting her dying as the best course or are you supporting her husbands right to decide? I think there are two issues here.

QUOTE(Mar 23 @ 2005 -> 03:33 PM) From CNN.Com - 3:32pm Central time Who should decide Terry's fate? Politicians 1% 1196 votes Judges 4% 8479 votes Parents 22% 47346 votes Husband 73% 154304 votes I don't know how some people define husband or wife, but I don't consider someone living with his girlfriend and two kids as married in any real sense. But I'm old fashioned. If the option was ex-spouse, I wonder how many votes that would get? While I agree I would want my wife to make this decision, that presupposes, she is still married to me in a real sense. Maybe it's just me, but I could not imagine walking away from my wife in this condition.

QUOTE(mreye @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 09:44 AM) This is the first time I've opened this thread and I'll admit, I'm not going to read all 16 pages. I originally was on the side of the Husband. Why should the parents be allowed to overstep his marital rights? I've since done a complete 180 after learning that he has a girlfriend and 2 kids with her. A nurse has come out claiming that he injected her with insulin in the hospital. The family claims the day before she went into the coma she told them she was leaving her husband. For years he has refused any kind of treatment or therapy for her. Even telling a nurse that had just given her a cold washcloth to hold onto that it was therapy and to remove it. Her brother (I think it was her brother) said that he went with his sister to a home to visit their Grandmother who had a feeding tube and there were others in the same condition and she never mentioned a thing about not wanting to live like that. That's usually the time when people say things like that. All this doesn't seem right to me. What's his motive? Why is this so important to him? Sickness and health? Death do us part? This guy is breaking every vow he made. It's sad. I pray for her and the souls of the people that are basically giving her, an innocent person, a death sentence. If this guy had stayed by her side until the end, I would support his rights as a spouse. I do not consider him anything more than her "legal" spouse. My wife and I agree that unconditional love would have us at each other's bedside, and if we were the patient, would want the other happiness. I know I would not be happy abondoning her. I also do not believe much of the rhetoric on either side. Many people would lie to save a life. People are getting desperate or frustrated.

QUOTE(ChiSoxyGirl @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 07:42 AM) The real questions is: Do they have a shuttle to Celine Dion's show as well? I like the sound of a drunken bachelor party visiting the lovely Mrs. Dion's show. Should spice it right up. I am certain they wouldn't be looking for topless places

I've had to rewrite a couple of my recent posts, because I used language that she was already dead. As in no heart beat. Defining life is a tricky prospect and no one is 100% happy with any definition. With Terri, some people see a beating heart, functioning lung, eyes that move, focal cords the make noises and see life. Still other intelligent, caring individuals see no brain activity beyond the most basic and see death. for everyone. May God help those involved to make the right decision and may this help others to avoid this gut wretching situation.

Wow Nuke, the love you get is truly inspirational

CNN.com link

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 07:35 AM) I know you didn't ask me, but one big thing they could do is to change the way their make teachers. I have first hand knowledge of two "teachers" colleges and many teachers end up that way because they failed at another major, and to keep them in school they have them become a teacher. (You can't make it in premed, teach bio in elementary school) We need to have our brightest educating our children. Another thing we HAVE to do is end the socio-economic discrimination that is local property tax funding of schools. Since the federal government seems to want to educate our kids now, they need to sit down, and figure out a way to make the intercity schools as well funded as the white suburban schools. Part one I think is a bit of an exaggeration based on teachers I have known. Part two is dead on and welcome to Democratic thinking 101. Taking money away from public schools is not the answer. I also think those private school families should think twice about vouchers. I hear how many of them are happy their kids aren't hanging with the "public school kids" with vouchers, they would be as those kids are seated next to their kids. One thing that bugs me is it is very easy for public officials to score points by attacking the school systems and the teachers that are involved. Like every profession, there are some bad, but by and large, teachers are some of the most altruistic, caring, dedicated people I know. Why else work for teachers wages? We need to support those teachers and not allow our elected officials to beat the drum just to score points with voters.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 11:39 PM) Still stuck out in the wastelands of southern New Mexico for a bit longer but I do have access to the net for the time being but my cell phone coverage still blows ass ( DAMN YOU VERIZON! ). Obviously the guy who called Chicago the windy city never visited a desert like this. WHEW! I thought you said you would be in Texas? The wind is never ending. If you headed out on Hwy 10 you probably saw the miles and miles of wind farms. Ugly s*** if you ask me. How are the wild flowers up north? Beats anywhere in the GMT+4 time zone

Wow, great resource.

QUOTE(ChiSoxyGirl @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 07:34 AM) As someone that attends services weekly, I think that the views of some people are dismissed because they cannot "play nice," and resort to belitting, rude, and lowest common denominator responses. Very true. I was thinking of times, like in the Howard Stern thread that the comment was made "I don't want some religious wacko making decision on what I can and cannot listen to". PR campaign my religious groups are held in disdain. As if everyone who attends Church holds the same views and they are somehow programmed. I think for some people, the end justifies the means. It wouldn't matter who asked for the feeding tube to be pulled, the "husband", the parents, or a Martian, as long as her life was ended, they would be fine with it. I can certainly respect that opinion, and can understand wishing to see her finally dead. Too bad she has to die a slow death. I feel, in this case, absent of a living will, that her parents should be making the decision, not her spouse who has moved on with his life and would benefit from her passing. When judging people's motives, one thing I look at is what they gain. He gains freedom and possibly some cash, the parents gain a lifetime of caring for a daughter who probably will never talk, eat on her own, or anything. And as I admitted, my experiences as a parent also tug at me. Blood is thinker than water, I believe is the phrase. I pray none of us are in this situation.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 03:41 AM) .... as long as you don't use the word "God". In some parts of the country

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:12 AM) No Tex.. I said that I would not want to be on LS, and to ME a feeing tube in her, as opposed to Chris Reeves, condition is LS. And as I stated, it is the state of her brain, or lack there of, that is a more compelling reason to wish her a speedy death, than that she needs a feeding tube. I did not consider a feeding tube, as a LS in most cases. Comas, paraplegics, etc. all need them. QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:14 AM) That's exactly, and all, I have been saying. I did not mean to dismiss anyones opinions because they do not have kids. I understand how frustrating that is. On many occasions here the views who people who attend Church are dismissed because they are religious. That frustrates me, and I apologize if that was how some of y'all took my comment. In retrospect I should have said, people with kids are more likely to support parental rights than someone without kids based on their experiences as a parent. It is their flesh and blood, their DNA. It is an indescribable bond. I saw the inverse as easier to point out based on the posters her who have taken the time to share their opinions. Just like likely voters for a school referendum are usually parents of school age kids. Or people with handguns are more likely to not support gun restrictions. It seems obvious to me, but if other people's experiences and ways of thinking are different, who am I to disagree on how someone claims to think.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 11:48 PM) Increase funding for schools. The current status of NCLB underfunds schools (yes, it was an increase in previous funding but they underfunded what it would take to complete all the demands of NCLB) Have peer group counseling. Start with no unfunded mandates. Currently the state can decide on some requirement, forcing schools to do stuff, but the state doesn't have to fund it, they leave that little detail up to the local school board who may or may not have a snowballs chance in South Texas to get a referendum passed.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 11:51 PM) I am completely neutral on this issue. I'm just sick of hearing about it constantly. You are the first person who I know is neutral. Since life or death decisions are probably more common in your line of work than mine, is a living will required for military personnel? Is the decision left up to the military? How is it handled in the service?

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 11:40 PM) Is anyone else sick of this already? I am and I also dont like the fact that Congress and the president are meddling in this. I think they have more important things to worry about. Welcome back Nuke, this must be a twilight zone. I am agreeing with the GOPerheads and Nuke isn't. I'm actually agreeing with Hannity et. al. BTW, the life or death of a citizen should be important enough to get our government involved. I can not think of anything mroe important that life or death. well maybe Buerhle's toe You liberal puss

One initiative being talked about in Texas is moving to learning pods. Smaller more personalized learning approaches. The current system has been in place for decades and decades and does not reflect today's technology, today's careers, and today's adolescent. They want to address three R's. Rigor, making certain high standards are being upheld. Relevance, helping students see how this stuff will connect later. How doing well in 9th grade English will help them down the road. Relationships, along the lines of what Southsider said. If you are in the top 10% of the class, play sports, involved in clubs, teachers and parents know you. If you are in the bottom 10%, being disrespectful, disruptive, and basically flunking out, teachers and administrators know you. If you are in the 70-80% of the kids who arrive each day, do ok, don't get in trouble, no one knows who you are. I've been nominated to be President of my kid's High School PTSO (parents, teachers, student, organization). I am hoping to work towards the second two thirds of this concept. I've read some reports that try to create an A=B causality between some of his Nazi posts and other stuff. I do not believe we will ever know if he was messed up and found the bad influence stuff, or he was ok until he found that stuff. Either way it is a bad mix.

While I feel sorry for the parents, and can not fathom the nightmare they are finding themselves in, I do find some comfort in that her passing will cause many people the world over to contemplate what they would want done in this situation. Basically what I am sending to my lawyer is something along these lines. If my wife and parents agree with my primary care Doctor, that's it. It should be reviewed on some sort of schedule. I debated about including my kids, and at this time have decided I did not wish to burden them with this decision. As they mature, or my parents pass away, I will reconsider. If there is debate, and no consensus, err on the side of keeping me alive. My brain activity is paramount to any decision. I would rather have my electric work than the plumbing or nerves. Drooling and random eye movements isn't enough. I pray by then we pass an assisted suicide or right to die law to allow a Doctor to put me down like a lame horse. Basically if I was in Terri's case I would want to die.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 10:41 PM) Tex, I don't want to interrupt your chat but you overlooked an important part. Judge Greer assumed the role of guardian over Terri's life when Michael deferred that decision to the courts. This didn't occur in the first decision (2000) but it did occur in the subsequent decisions. Essentially when Michael knew he the Judge was on his side he changed his motion. I especially do not like the government ever choosing death for a citizen. I can not think of a single situation where that would be acceptable to me. I am against the death penalty. I do not trust the government that much. If her Doctors, the ones that worked with her, recomended pulling the feeding tube and the husband went along, I would feel less certain of my position. The parents have been more involved the past years, while her husband was busy starting a new life. I've heard from several nurses that he doesn't even visit. Understandable because he believes she is "dead". He moved away from her, let her parents care for her. I am not stating that in all cases parent's rights would trump a spouses. It is not the norm for the parents to survive their children. I have yet to hear anyone claim how she would be harmed by staying alive. Her wishes are only told by the very person who agrees with them. If it was her parents wanting her to die and her husband was keeping her alive, would y'all be defending his decision? Or is this a matter of believing she is better off dead, and no matter who makes the decision, you would be in agreement?