Texsox

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 24, 2005 -> 09:28 AM) Tex.. what's wth asking the same question over and over and over again...?? Obviously none of us are able to give you an answer to satisfaction.. A bit of new news.. CNN is reporting that Jeb is "taking" custody of her.. How nice of him to take on this cause... All the while.. Florida's children are disappearing at the hands of sexual predators at an alarming rate.... These children, if it weren't for the sexual predators - not their employers :rolly -, have every expectation to grow up and live long and meaningful lives... Terri, tragically, no longer has that expectation...nor does she want to be kept alive by artifical means... I believe the children do want to live...and artifical means are not needed for them... Why isn't Jeb Bush concentrating on reclaiming control over Florida's parole system, the 25,000 registered sexual offenders and hunting down the 20% (5,000) of them who are not accounted for??? Why isn't he dedicating whatever is needed to strengthen the sentencing laws for sexual offenders? Why isn't he doing everything possible to keep these predators off of our streets and away from our children??? Why does Jeb Bush work a 9 - 5 normal day when the only problems Florida has are missing children, missing parolees, and missing foster kids? Yet, is willing to roll up his sleeves and burn the midnight oil to save the life of a woman whom his judges have decided clearly wants to die?? Jeb Bush - order your legislature back into session and do something to save our children! Let's ask Jessica's father, Mark Lunsford, Sheriff Dawsy, and John Walsh, what they think Jeb Bush should be working on tonight....and tomorrow and the next day... Since this is Jeb's last term...does he want to leave a legacy of interferring with Terri's right to die and trying to save someone who doesn't want to be saved or should he want a legacy of keeping children safe? They have a "right to life," also... Sigh.... Stepping down now. Sorry. Whoa, Southsider just posed the question and I answered. As far as I know that was the first time it was asked. Fortunately in the US we have the resources to work on more than one issue at a time. We are faced with growing poverty, jobs moving offshore, terrorism, actually many more than I can list here. Are you suggesting we should solve these one at a time? Which one should we work on first? I would sugest since as soon as she dies, the issue is over, it should be this one. Would it really make sense to say, just as soon as we cure global poverty, we'll get back to you? And Steff you keep saying that Judges have decided that she wants to die. What the judges have decided is her husband can choose to have her die. There is a big difference.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 24, 2005 -> 08:27 AM) I hear ya.. It's all over this thread. JMO that I don't see the point. I believe the point is, if he is going to profit or benefit from her death in some way, he wouldn't be the best person to make that decision. For me it comes to the moral authority he has over her life. He is more powerful than any person on the planet right now. He alone can stop this and have the feeding tube reinstated. He is more powerful than the President, the Pope, and any other human that wants her saved. We question people's motivations all the time in these situations.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 24, 2005 -> 08:26 AM) Many people are exploring the husbands life, and using his actions to justify what should or shouldn't be done to Terri. I wonder why this isn't a two way street? Why aren't the parents actions beign explored, since the husband's seem to be so important? What are their possible negative motives for keeping her alive? That's why I believe they haven't been mentioned. They are praying, begging, that *nothing* be done. The husband wants something done (the feeding tube removed).

Actually, we now have 11 digit phone numbers. (1+ for out of area). Any guesses on how long we will have to add some more numbers? Some ideas on reducing the number of phone numbers. Greater portability. Allow someone to keep their same phone number no matter where they move. Why do we have to change if we move over 2 towns, or even two states? That would free up all the numbers that are out of circulation for months in a "cooling off period"

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:22 PM) Tex I disagree with you taking this just as some troopers joke. They aired all three 911 calls on CNN (at least I think it was) and it sure as heck didn't seem like a joke to me. I don't care how stupid the kid on the motorcycle was it's not his job to give social commentary. When I call 911 I sure as hell expect to here someone taking my call seriously. I thought it was a single instance of him saying Too Bad. If there was a second case, then his one chance was up.

QUOTE(Queen Prawn @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 05:43 PM) Not as good as Nerds! Nerds = EEs = QP

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 24, 2005 -> 06:59 AM) Whatever. Steff was clearly referring to her specifically, and her brain: Your direct response to this was: Since Steff was specifically speaking about Schiavo, and you responded to this without any caveat (like, yes you're completely right, but it is an interesting factoid that in totally different cases other parts of the brain take over certain functions), it is at least awfully misleading. I'm hardly jumping on everything. (Look at how many posts you've had in this thread -- I've disagreed with you directly twice iirc.) I dropped out of the whole exchange earlier. But the idea that what remains of her brain can handle somehow the functions that were destroyed is flat wrong -- all I did was point that out in plain language. Sorry if you felt attacked, but I don't honestly see how you get that from my posts. Edit: And, it'll please you to know, I'm out of this thread. I thought it was clear, but I guess what seems obvious to one, isn't to another. Thank you for dropping back into the thread to help me clear that up.

For the same reason you mention GOP+Fed, DEM+State, Tex+Hannity I believe this has crossed party lines for us amateurs. Our partisan elected officials have to be concerned about every issue and how it will be perceived. When the President can't grab a quick BJ from an intern in the oval office to relieve stress, you know politics are everywhere. That's just a fact of life for a political professional. It's their livelihood.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 08:50 PM) That's a fun list, in my mind I was already assigning peoples names I am definitely the "lifer: I don't see myself on the list, but you my friend, are definitely the lifer. I look at the bottom of my screen and your name is always there, I finally decided to add this 3am to 5 am shift to get away from you. BTW, that ends during next off season. I see that post count dropping like a rock.

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) Censorship? Hardly. This board, and most boards are owned by individuals. You are posting here free of charge because somebody loves something enough to give people a place to discuss it, and other like interest. YOU are in somebody else's house. If you came into my house, my actual house, and started doing anything against my house rules, I would throw you out or shut you up. Not to be rude, but that is basically what it boils down to. The owner of this site wants it to be a certain way, if you break the rules of his house, he/she has trusted other people to watch and maintain the place. In this day and age of the internet people seem to like to use the word "censorship", and it gets used wrongly all the time. If you send a letter into a magazine, it gets edited. It isn't "censorship", it is editing. That is what an editor is for. No author ever sees their first draft make it to publishing, and few writers ever do. The board is kind of the same way, these mods are just trying to follow the rules, and follow them the best that they can. If you don't like the "censorship" you will encounter on a board, get some money together, and start your own board. I hit another site all the time. A group of people decided to break away and start a site free of "censorship". Within a month it was the most heavily moderated site I have ever seen, and within 5 months it was a ghost town. You might not like the editing, but it is what helps keeping people coming back.

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) Censorship? Hardly. This board, and most boards are owned by individuals. You are posting here free of charge because somebody loves something enough to give people a place to discuss it, and other like interest. YOU are in somebody else's house. If you came into my house, my actual house, and started doing anything against my house rules, I would throw you out or shut you up. Not to be rude, but that is basically what it boils down to. The owner of this site wants it to be a certain way, if you break the rules of his house, he/she has trusted other people to watch and maintain the place. In this day and age of the internet people seem to like to use the word "censorship", and it gets used wrongly all the time. If you send a letter into a magazine, it gets edited. It isn't "censorship", it is editing. That is what an editor is for. No author ever sees their first draft make it to publishing, and few writers ever do. The board is kind of the same way, these mods are just trying to follow the rules, and follow them the best that they can. If you don't like the "censorship" you will encounter on a board, get some money together, and start your own board. I hit another site all the time. A group of people decided to break away and start a site free of "censorship". Within a month it was the most heavily moderated site I have ever seen, and within 5 months it was a ghost town. You might not like the editing, but it is what helps keeping people coming back. Ditto Kid ( since I've been hanging with the GOPerheads this week, I thought I'd try out the lingo and be a dittohead. )

One amazing thing about our society has unfolded this week. The "Most Powerful Man on Earth", the President of the United States, is limited to the powers we have given him. Leaders from Florida to the White House are trying to right a wrong they see, yet they can not by royal decree, intimidation, executive orders, bribery. or any other means arbitrarily have their way. I believe it is what makes our country great. Checks and balances. Even in life and death decisions.

YASNY, Excellent point, but I haven't seen this as a liberal vs. conservative issue. At least in my corner of the globe, the people I've spoken to don't seem to be split down party lines. Church affiliation and having children are the two biggest divides I could see. This is an admittedly small sample and may or may not reflect society as a whole, I do not wish to generalize or marginalize anyone's opinions because they may or may not belong to any of the groups mentioned (I have to throw that in or Jackie will jump on my ass :banghead ) It seems that some people are focused in on the greater good of the patient. I think Steff has done a wonderful service in expressing that point of view against all critics. I believe most people would not wish to survive in that condition and whatever means gets her to that end, is ok. Don't worry about the details, do what is best for Terri. The do what's best for Terri crowd also includes people who believe that any human life is worth living. There is no minimum requirement for IQ, memory, personality, etc. to be kept alive. They are also likely to have strong feelings for the parents and their wishes, recognizing the parent-child bonds as absolute. Others become wrapped up in the moral authority issue of who has the right to decide if she lives or dies, and from what basis is that moral right given. The legal right has been decided and the legally binding contract of marriage allows the husband that omniscient power over his wife's live.This is the same legal system that until a couple decades ago felt it was impossible for one spouse to rape another. Our opinions of marriage are moving towards individual rights. Perhaps this case will spur more examination and reflection on the rights of spouses. With close to half the marriages ending in divorce, maybe the laws need to reflect the temporary nature of marriage vs. the lifelong contract that was more the norm when many of the basic underpinning of our laws were written. I obviously fall in the last category. From what I have seen and heard the parents have stayed dedicated to Terri, while the husband has created a new life for himself. At this point, in this case, I would prefer the parents making the decision. I do not necessarily agree with their decision, but I defend their right to make it.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:58 PM) Especially since it has been widely reported that her parents are the ones who encouraged him to go out and start seeing other people, even going so far as to set him up with other people. And get a divorce and leave Terri to them. To bad the plan backfired. He has two wives.

QUOTE(winodj @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:25 PM) You think that after 7 years of fighting to grant her her final wish, that he might have run out of sadness? Wino, the only one that seems to be saying it was her final wishes is him. You believe the guy, others don't. At the minimum, his motives should be questioned. Remember this is not a case of Doctors advising her family that there was no hope and they should remove the feeding tube. The husband is requesting the tube be removed.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:21 PM) Not true, at least in this case. From webmd, a doctor at the Univ of Rochester:Here's the link. Jackie, I was not commenting on her exact situation, but adressing the quoted comment that brain cells do not grow back. Sorry for the confusion. If you study stroke victims, people with injuries, etc. That is what happens. Of course if there isn't healthy cells available, that would not be possible. But since you seem to want to jump on everything I write, have at it. :banghead

Maybe he said it in green? I think everyone deserves a second chance. If he has a clean record, I'd keep him on and trust he doesn't make the same mistake twice. Phrases I heard behind the scenes in an ER Pass the Bible, he's studying for the final . . . Gomer (he's gone, no hope) We wasted clean sheets on a guy whose going to die in a couple minutes? These were all dedicated, caring people who entered a profession to help people and used gallows humor to cope. I know a pediatric oncology nurse who used whatever he could find in the narcotic cabinet.

All the forum mods suck Have a little compassion for the mods. They are volunteers trying to create a community. As far as restrictions on the Internet, of course different sites have different tolerance levels. We try for a PG13 to light R rating. We over step it sometimes and perhaps err too much on the other side but overall I think the volunteers have done a great job. One area we get into is common usage ion one age group isn't common usage and has a totally different meaning in another. Caution wins.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 05:26 PM) Brain cells don't grow back.. she is never going to improve. What happens is other areas of the brain take over for the damaged areas. Brain cells are a use it or lose proposition which is why his refusing basic things like taking her outside and holding a wet towel, are so objectionable. It is far easier for me to side with the parents on motives. Would anyone here want to care for Terri for the rest of your life? The husband is free. It seems like he wins of he gets his way, if the parents get theirs, they are in for a lot of work.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 05:10 PM) I don't know why him having another "life" doesn't bother me like it does others.. I guess because if this was me I would not want Jim stopping his life for me if he was told by several doctors that there was no hope and after 7 years I did not improve. I'd want him to have someone to turn to for comfort. You guys are human.. and with that is the need for companionship. I don't think it makes his decision easier.. I think it makes it more tolerable. I agree 100%. And it is also what I would want my wife to do. But my wife and I also agree that if our parents were willing to care for us, we would want that. If by being kept alive we could make our parents happy, we would. It seems like a fair deal for the people who gave us life. Steff, I admire your steadfastness on this issue. It is a difficult decision for most people to say that an innocent human is better off dead. I think your compassion for Terri is genuine and hope you don't mind our difference of opinion. I still think the husband is not the kind of person I would want my daughter to marry.

I tried to verify this without success. Does anyone know if a Doctor recommended pulling the feeding tube and the husband agreed, or he ordered the feeding tube removed? My understanding is all the Doctors that have cared for her have recommend keeping her feeding tube in or voiced no opinion. It is the husband who is pushing to end her life. I don't know if this would change anyones opinion, I rather doubt it. Steff, I truly wish she had been explicit in writing down her wishes in this situation. I'm with you in that there is probably no hope and passing peacefully would be a compassionate thing. The way this is happening, there will be three victims. I can't get past allowing her husband (and him specifically) this life or death decision.

When this is your world and you see it every day, gallows humor takes over. My wife worked in hospital ER and they would use humor to cope with the stress. That of course never escaped to the patients or their families and wasn't their true feelings, just a mask. or maybe he was drunk

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 04:26 PM) Maybe these people have a few more brain cells than those idots that visit CNN.Com.. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/s...d=599622&page=2 Should Feeding Tube Be Removed? Support Oppose Non-evangelical 77% 18 Evangelical 46 44 Catholics 63 26 Liberals 68 24 Moderates 69 22 Conservatives 54 40 Democrats 65 25 Independents 63 28 Republicans 61 34 Conservative Reps. 55 40 That's an average of 62.1 supporting the removal. Steff, is there a column for people that support her right to die, believe she should die, but her ex-husband shouldn't be the one making the decision? If her parents wanted the feeding tube removed and her husband was blocking it, would you still support the husband? Edit, let me ask this a different way. Are you supporting her dying as the best course or are you supporting her husbands right to decide? I think there are two issues here.

QUOTE(Mar 23 @ 2005 -> 03:33 PM) From CNN.Com - 3:32pm Central time Who should decide Terry's fate? Politicians 1% 1196 votes Judges 4% 8479 votes Parents 22% 47346 votes Husband 73% 154304 votes I don't know how some people define husband or wife, but I don't consider someone living with his girlfriend and two kids as married in any real sense. But I'm old fashioned. If the option was ex-spouse, I wonder how many votes that would get? While I agree I would want my wife to make this decision, that presupposes, she is still married to me in a real sense. Maybe it's just me, but I could not imagine walking away from my wife in this condition.

QUOTE(mreye @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 09:44 AM) This is the first time I've opened this thread and I'll admit, I'm not going to read all 16 pages. I originally was on the side of the Husband. Why should the parents be allowed to overstep his marital rights? I've since done a complete 180 after learning that he has a girlfriend and 2 kids with her. A nurse has come out claiming that he injected her with insulin in the hospital. The family claims the day before she went into the coma she told them she was leaving her husband. For years he has refused any kind of treatment or therapy for her. Even telling a nurse that had just given her a cold washcloth to hold onto that it was therapy and to remove it. Her brother (I think it was her brother) said that he went with his sister to a home to visit their Grandmother who had a feeding tube and there were others in the same condition and she never mentioned a thing about not wanting to live like that. That's usually the time when people say things like that. All this doesn't seem right to me. What's his motive? Why is this so important to him? Sickness and health? Death do us part? This guy is breaking every vow he made. It's sad. I pray for her and the souls of the people that are basically giving her, an innocent person, a death sentence. If this guy had stayed by her side until the end, I would support his rights as a spouse. I do not consider him anything more than her "legal" spouse. My wife and I agree that unconditional love would have us at each other's bedside, and if we were the patient, would want the other happiness. I know I would not be happy abondoning her. I also do not believe much of the rhetoric on either side. Many people would lie to save a life. People are getting desperate or frustrated.