Texsox

Bastrop State Park is one of my favorites. The Lost Pines Scout Camp is also in that neighborhood. I haven't heard if it is threatened.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 04:45 PM) And comparing people who are tired of Ozzie's act and years of failure to Al Davis firing a couple coaches every year isn't a loaded, heavily editorialized opinion? And that is out of context. I said that accountability often means firing someone and a revolving door, aka Al Davis, has not proven to be very successful. But keep creating paper tigers. Oz deserves some of the responsibility for the failures this season. However, the players are the ones that should carry the majority of the responsibility. I do not believe that a different manager would have this team in the playoffs. I believe it is time to break up the KW / Oz team so the organization can be more unified going forward.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 04:45 PM) And comparing people who are tired of Ozzie's act and years of failure to Al Davis firing a couple coaches every year isn't a loaded, heavily editorialized opinion? Won't you agree that extremes are bad? Like not holding players responsible for their poor performance while blaming the clubhouse attendant, travelling secretary, and Ozzie?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) The lack of accountability is rampant, not just in the sense that Tex is trying to talk down as wanting everyone fired. Players showing no effort regularly getting starts while other guys bust their asses and get benched anyway is the first GLARING example of it. Great point. I wasn't understanding you were meaning organization wide.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) So, would you say that any extreme is bad? Such as, extreme loyalty and subservience to a manager with no good reason? Any extreme is bad. And how nice you loaded you post with a heavily editorialized opinion. What you really are doing is setting up something everyone will agree with and adding the opinion you are trying to argue in the second part. This way it looks like someone is agreeing with your opinion regarding subservience with no good reason when in truth they are agreeing that extremes are bad.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:51 PM) How many coaches would Al Davis fire if he had 1 playoff appearance in 6 years? We would have had seven managers between 2000 and 2010. Three or four GMs, a complete change over in scouting.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:56 PM) Tex, what accountability within the org do you think is happening We have no way of knowing. For all I know JR demanded certain line ups (although I really doubt it). My point is the only accountability we can see is usually someone being fired. For all we know KW has been removed from player evaluations, Oz has been removed from decisions regarding minor league call ups. Who knows?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 02:34 PM) So Jerry Lewis runs this MDA Telethon for 50 years, raises 2 billion dollars for the organization and they dump him the year they are forced to a 6 hour format, which would have been better for the crotchety old man anyway. Can you imagine the meeting in which the young suits in charge of MDA discuss getting rid of the out of touch Jerry Lewis and bring in some clown from American Idol? How in the world could anybody give a cent to that organization again? This is a perfect example of corporate suits doing something totally un American (of what America used to stand for). They get rid of the guy who most of America thought owned the damn telethon, the man who raised all that money, and bring in some no-name hosts that nobody in their right mind would watch. It was a tradition to turn on the TV for an hour or so on Labor Day weekend and watch Jerry Lewis say stupid things while raising money. I think MDA got tired of waiting on him to die. And fired him. What a f***ing disgrace, America. Jerry Lewis is from the era where you don't take shots at people, either. So I would doubt we'll see what I'd love to see. The old comic blast the s*** out out of the suits who in their "team meetings" probably discussed an nauseum how to dump this institution who made the telethon a s***load of money for 50 years. You'd be sending a big check if they passed to torch to Ozzie

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:30 PM) It is amazing to think he has been gone this long. Hopefully he found his fill of fat bottomed girls. In his will he basically gave everything to his longtime and long ago girlfriend.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:56 AM) Yep, the idea the Guillen has held this team back from a division championship is crazy. He should be fired because three consecutive years (with talent to win) without a playoff appearance in a major market dictates that. Fixed and I agree.

There are two kinds of accountability, within the organization which we cannot see, and accountability we can see (firing people). What most people seem to mean when they hear accountability is fire everyone after a losing season. The Al Davis revolving door of people doesn't seem to work, but either does riding a dead horse.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:18 PM) I guess we were destroyed or something, or so I was told I never believed it was all Ozzie's fault. I am sure though this off season will be plenty interesting LOL. Ozzie single handily destroyed a couple player's careers. With a different manager, Dunn would be an MVP candidate and Mark would be an ace. It is easier to blame one guy than a roster of players. I think it is time to break up the KW / OG team, but Oz isn't the reason Dunn and Rios had two of the most memorable years in modern baseball history. And if I was going to keep just one, KW is definitely the one I would keep. It would be silly to suggest that Oz had a great season as manager, along with everyone else, he was below expectations. Also, watch how fast players start blaming the guy who is let go.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) Then next year I will devote my baseball energies to the Blue Jays and Nationals. Excellent choices. Enjoy.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:29 PM) So as a manager if I have 2 engineers. One of which forgot how to do his job. If I knowingly send the one to customers day in an day out and leave the other one on the engineering bench. Am I doing my job. I mean sure, the engineer is incompetent and probably needs to get better. However do you think my clients will care. Do you think they will call up and say well you know, its not your fault that he blew up our system. I blame the engineer. I would fire him right away. Are you suggesting Dunn should have been fired? You really used that example? Do you seriously think that is a good comparison?

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) Who is more to blame. The veteran player hitting so bad that he is now in some historic conversations on futility. Or the manager who trotted him out there in the 4 hole and against lefties for the better part of the season. Most managers drop the player in the order to help him find himself and then work on match-ups. Guillen seemed to go against the grain and just throw him into the 4 hole into the wolves so to speak. Both share the blame, more to Dunn. And blame is maybe not the right word. Responsibility would be better. Who is more responsible for Dunn's performance? I believe Dunn.

He died too young. http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/99206

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:33 AM) First, the manager controls the use of the bullpen, the order of the lineup, benching or starting players and in game strategies. To imply that X is a small percentage is unbelievably ignorant. Second, in this organization we have no clue what the overall strategy of the team is. KW will get his way one year (Dunn) and Ozzie will get his way another year (insert any s***ty grinder player here). Strategy without execution is meaningless.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:59 AM) As long as you understand that you're not defending Guillen, you're indicting him. Sure. But not nearly to the same degree as placing a majority of the blame on him. Are you not indicting any of the players? or is it all Oz's fault?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:09 AM) This board is sending me into convulsions. We've got DA who says Greg Walker is by no means responsible for anything that's gone wrong with the White Sox offense. Tex is saying as long as KW provides us with a paper champion in March that his job is completed and anything that happens after that is none of his concern. And now TRU is saying that because Ozzie has had bad players this year (I guess Ozzie is the only manager in the history of baseball that's ever had players underperform?) that he is absolved of all blame for this disaster of a season. Well there you have it. White Sox baseball: where infinity-like job security happens! No, that isn't what I am saying. Of course it is his concern. The GM puts together players but they have to play and the manager has to manage. If you leave spring training with a team that has an excellent chance to win the division, he has done a good job. No one expected Dunn to play this bad, it is unfair to blame the GM for that. Same with some of the others. Blame the GM for the GM job, don't blame him for the players or managers. Same as blaming Konerko for not going out and getting a better DH or Oz for not executing a double play. The GM can only play the game on paper.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:53 AM) Let me put it this way...I have no idea how the balance goes, but "only a portion of the problem is the manager" tells me that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Ok, the entire organization is a problem. Same as if the organization wins, everyone shares the credit.

A struggling team was on a roll for a week before getting trounced by the class of the division. I was just thinking, it is amazing this is a second place team. How much talent to you have to start with to play this crappy and be a second place team? Yeah $125,000,000 of talent.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) And when multiple expensive pieces come to the same team and have craptacular seasons, well, we just throw up our hands in frustration and say that there was nothing that could have been done? No not at all. There is plenty of blame to go around, including the players in question. Is there a manager in the world that you would give a pass to and then blame Dunn and Rios? Oz 10% Players 90% is about my assessment.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) Tex, want me to take it from here? Cause I agree with you lol. Thanks but a 1,000 posts that Oz sucks and should be fired versus two that it ain't all his fault is about right

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:01 AM) If you watched this team this season... Did they come to the season prepared to play? (My answer...look at April's record). Did they regularly come into big games ready to play? These are 2 things that are directly within the manager's sphere of influence. Who is "they"? Do you mean players? Guys that have been playing at the highest levels for years. Suddenly Dunn and Rios don't know how to get ready for a game without a manager telling them? I'm not saying Ozzie doesn't deserve his share of the blame. he's had a season almost as bad as Dunn and Rios. But his craptastic season wasn't nearly as big as problem as the craptastic seasons from major pieces of the team. You've been watching Bad News Bears too much if you think a manager can somehow make up for Dunn playing like a guy that should be a low draft pick in AA. I agree it's time for an organizational shake up, but the next guy is going to inherit the same pile of crap, and if that pile of crap doesn't change, the results will be the same.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:58 AM) The obvious question in reply is...what makes a series of guys repeatedly have their worst seasons in their careers? From your standard, the manager is useless. Which is as accurate as saying by your standard players are useless.